Revolution

[Great Malema]

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be all right
All right, all right

Dammit, you beat me to it!

[Korintar]

Revolution

Communist, Socialist or Anarchist how would a revolution occure?
The Russian Revolution showed a revolution could occure in a quick bloadless and painless process (Nobody was seriously injured or killed). However the Chinies civil war was something very different with 1000s dieing on both sides.

Here's how I believe a true revolution should occure.
Education:Break through the propaganda and show the people the actuall merit of the alternatives.Organise meetings, use the Internet and get the public involved.A revolution will not occure if people still believe propaganda or are ignorant to what you propose.

Crisis:As the past system fails and crisis begines the new systems gain interest a global consciousness will emerge.

Protests:People will stand up for there freedoms and demand change.

How about no?

I'd like a revolution where true Americans would overthrow the socialists and liberals from government and re-found America it was truly based on. That is, pursuit for happiness, in the US and abroad. And that means interventions to dictatorships like Iran.

You do realize isolationism and neutrality are the principles that US foreign policy was based on, or supposed to be based on, according to the words of the founders? You do realize that there has been a long history of anti-imperialist and non-interventionist movements in US history, led by conservatives, liberals, and socialists alike?

I'd really like a revolution where the working classes (including much of our increasingly shrinking middle class) of the United States, the true engine and lifeblood of our economy, would rise up and put the capital, finance, and political classes in their place. It is my hope that such a revolution would reignite the flames of liberty and revitalize the experiment of American democracy. We, libertarian socialists, believe in the pursuit of happiness, or positive liberty, as it is sometimes called. Those of us who are libertarian socialists believe that people should be able to live their lives as they see fit and be empowered to effect real, concrete change in the enterprises in which they work. We believe that cycle of social reproduction in our institutions is a sign of systemic problems that need to be addressed in a radical way.

[Malgrave]

How about no?

I'd like a revolution where true Americans would overthrow the socialists and liberals from government and re-found America it was truly based on. That is, pursuit for happiness, in the US and abroad. And that means interventions to dictatorships like Iran.

In 1953 America and the UK intervented in Iran with the express purpose of CREATING a dictatorship and I will haunt you for the rest of your life everywhere you post to remind you of this everytime you talk about how much you want other people to invade countries for you while you sit in your house wishing Sweden would invade. Your interventions will go wrong. Every time.

I think the United Kingdom just asked nicely for the CIA to otherthrow the democratic Iranian Government. I don't think we actually took part in the otherthrowing.

Feelsbadman.jpg.

[Querinos]

I'd like a revolution where true Americans would overthrow the socialists and liberals from government and re-found America it was truly based on. That is, pursuit for happiness, in the US and abroad. And that means interventions to dictatorships like Iran.

... The majority of the founding fathers, especially Washington, were isolationist. The very idea of meddling with another nation's political structure so directly would have been spat upon.

[Conserative Morality]

I think the United Kingdom just asked nicely for the CIA to otherthrow the democratic Iranian Government. I don't think we actually took part in the otherthrowing.

Feelsbadman.jpg.

The UK convinced us that Mossadegh had communist sympathies. Not our finest moment.

Before that, Mossadegh thought of us as his ally against the UK, who were trying to pressure him into giving them essentially colonial rights to Iran's oil.

[Korintar]

I'd like a revolution where true Americans would overthrow the socialists and liberals from government and re-found America it was truly based on. That is, pursuit for happiness, in the US and abroad. And that means interventions to dictatorships like Iran.

... The majority of the founding fathers, especially Washington, were isolationist. The very idea of meddling with another nation's political structure so directly would have been spat upon.

There is not only Washington in that tradition, though, as Eisenhower, iirc, showed more of a pacifist attitude after WWII, although Iran was not exactly the US's finest moment, thus while you will read of the Iran Hostage Crisis and the Islamic Revolution, you will not read of US intervention in Iran during the fifties. Also, a nation's right to self determination was a part of Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points plan, and the Senate rejected Versailles due to the section that had to deal with the creation of the League of Nations, the predecessor to the United Nations, they did not wish the US to entangle itself in global affairs. Washington would be absolutely horrified that we are actually taking sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict!

[Conserative Morality]

There is not only Washington in that tradition, though, as Eisenhower, iirc, showed more of a pacifist attitude after WWII, although Iran was not exactly the US's finest moment, thus while you will read of the Iran Hostage Crisis and the Islamic Revolution, you will not read of US intervention in Iran during the fifties. Also, a nation's right to self determination was a part of Woodrow Wilson's Fourteen Points plan, and the Senate rejected Versailles due to the section that had to deal with the creation of the League of Nations, the predecessor to the United Nations, they did not wish the US to entangle itself in global affairs. Washington would be absolutely horrified that we are actually taking sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict!

He'd also probably be horrified by gay marriage and the fact we took sides in WW2. =/

The world is no longer isolated by poor communication and transportation. For perhaps the first time in history, we live in a truly global community; we cannot simply shut our eyes to the affairs of the world - we must shape them, or else they will shape us.

[Mike the Progressive]

What insanity is this?

The Russian revolution was anything but bloodless...thousands died, from the nobility to the clergy to others in the name of some fanatic and delusional dream. This revolution established a government which murdered its own by the millions, run and operated by sociopaths, crooks, and goddamn thieves. And the Chinese revolution? Thousands didn't die, MILLIONS did.

The sheer stupidity of it all is frustrating. I recall somebody being 'thrilled' that the Communist Party in Russia recently made gains, the same party that praises Stalin, the man who murdered millions of his own. Say what you will of democratic socialism (the guy supports it), but the Communist Party of Russia is not that.

[Sremski okrug]

Revolution?

I recommend you actually do some research on the Russian revolution and the theory of communism itself. It's pretty embarrassing for people to relate the entire communist movement to misinformed people like you.

[Korintar]

Revolution?

I recommend you actually do some research on the Russian revolution and the theory of communism itself. It's pretty embarrassing for people to relate the entire communist movement to misinformed people like you.

Agreed, Shofercia. I cannot count how many times we had this discussion on the ICU RMB with the rest of the guys. None of us liked Stalinists by any stretch of the imagination, and I think just about all of us considered the idea that the PRC is communist to be a very sick joke. The only sicker one I can think of is the official of North Korea: The Democratic People's Republic of Korea

[West Failure]

The UK convinced us that Mossadegh had communist sympathies. Not our finest moment.

Nowadays we just tell you they have al-Qaeda sympathies.

[Kvatchdom]

I'm actually expecting a riot in Russia. It's fascists against angry stalinists. Of course something will happen.

[Kvatchdom]

Revolution

Communist, Socialist or Anarchist how would a revolution occure?
The Russian Revolution showed a revolution could occure in a quick bloadless and painless process (Nobody was seriously injured or killed). However the Chinies civil war was something very different with 1000s dieing on both sides.

Here's how I believe a true revolution should occure.
Education:Break through the propaganda and show the people the actuall merit of the alternatives.Organise meetings, use the Internet and get the public involved.A revolution will not occure if people still believe propaganda or are ignorant to what you propose.

Crisis:As the past system fails and crisis begines the new systems gain interest a global consciousness will emerge.

Protests:People will stand up for there freedoms and demand change.

How about no?

I'd like a revolution where true Americans would overthrow the socialists and liberals from government and re-found America it was truly based on. That is, pursuit for happiness, in the US and abroad. And that means interventions to dictatorships like Iran.

Liberals in USA? HAH! Socialists in USA? HAH! Even the dems are authoritarian right-wingers. Really, try to search some truth.

[Cameroi]

people die in revolutions. generally in somewhat greater percentage then revolutions achieve their objecties. agruably it may be questioned that any revolution, in the all out violent armed conflict traditional sense, that any revolution ever achieved all of its objectives, seldom even most of them. that being said, there comes a time when conditions become such, that the risk of all, becomes necessary and appropriate. these include, but are not entirely limited to, life being generally at risk already anyway. they may also included opressive economic conditions, and the dominance of aggressiveness. the latter ALWAYS being in reality tyranny, regardless of economic systems nor ideologies it pays lip service to.

[Hippostania]

How about no?

I'd like a revolution where true Americans would overthrow the socialists and liberals from government and re-found America it was truly based on. That is, pursuit for happiness, in the US and abroad. And that means interventions to dictatorships like Iran.

In 1953 America and the UK intervented in Iran with the express purpose of CREATING a dictatorship and I will haunt you for the rest of your life everywhere you post to remind you of this everytime you talk about how much you want other people to invade countries for you while you sit in your house wishing Sweden would invade. Your interventions will go wrong. Every time.

It was necessary, as Iran was moving towards Soviet sphere of influence and they were planning to nationalize the Anglo-Persian Oil Company. Besides, the shah's rule brought secularism and prosperity into Iran.

[Cameroi]

In 1953 America and the UK intervented in Iran with the express purpose of CREATING a dictatorship and I will haunt you for the rest of your life everywhere you post to remind you of this everytime you talk about how much you want other people to invade countries for you while you sit in your house wishing Sweden would invade. Your interventions will go wrong. Every time.

It was necessary, as Iran was moving towards Soviet sphere of influence and they were planning to nationalize the Anglo-Persian Oil Company. Besides, the shah's rule brought secularism and prosperity into Iran.

a rational person, certainly an objective one, might find this a somewhat odd use of the word "necessary".

[Ifreann]

What insanity is this?

The Russian revolution was anything but bloodless...thousands died, from the nobility to the clergy to others in the name of some fanatic and delusional dream. This revolution established a government which murdered its own by the millions, run and operated by sociopaths, crooks, and goddamn thieves. And the Chinese revolution? Thousands didn't die, MILLIONS did.

The sheer stupidity of it all is frustrating. I recall somebody being 'thrilled' that the Communist Party in Russia recently made gains, the same party that praises Stalin, the man who murdered millions of his own. Say what you will of democratic socialism (the guy supports it), but the Communist Party of Russia is not that.

Russians don't actually have blood, you see, they have red ice.

[Celritannia]

The Russian Revolution showed a revolution could occure in a quick bloadless and painless process (Nobody was seriously injured or killed).

You must have missed the storming of the Winter Palace...

The Winter Palace was never stormed, it was more of a walk in through the main gate.

[Celritannia]

I'd like a revolution where true Americans would overthrow the socialists and liberals from government and re-found America it was truly based on. That is, pursuit for happiness, in the US and abroad. And that means interventions to dictatorships like Iran.

Well it was the Conservative Republicans who invaded every where. With the exception of World War 2, no Democrat President invaded a country on a large scale as did all the Republican ones did. And the debt of the USA always increases where there is a Republican President, Bill clinton almost had the debt down to 0.
Also, if America goes back to the idea of Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, would homosexuals be aloud to live a life of libity and pursue their happiness? not with conservative Americans.

[Risottia]

The Russian Revolution showed a revolution could occure in a quick bloadless and painless process (Nobody was seriously injured or killed).

The Petrograd coup was bloodless, except for some injured Bolsheviks iirc. But the revolution didn't stop there - I'd consider the whole Russian Civil War as part of the Revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Civil_War

Here's how I believe a true revolution should occure. ...
Protests:People will stand up for there freedoms and demand change.

What happens when the upper class tries to put down the protests with violence, though?

[Hippostania]

Well it was the Conservative Republicans who invaded every where. With the exception of World War 2, no Democrat President invaded a country on a large scale as did all the Republican ones did.

Yet another reason to vote Republican!

And the debt of the USA always increases where there is a Republican President, Bill clinton almost had the debt down to 0.

Bullshit. Republicans balance the economy by cutting useless shit, democrats just spend, spend and spend and then blame democrats when the money runs out.

Also, if America goes back to the idea of Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, would homosexuals be aloud to live a life of libity and pursue their happiness? not with conservative Americans.

What do you mean ''go back''? America is already there. But yeah, I do agree that gays should have a right to marry or have children, but economy and foreign policy is more important than that.

[Risottia]

And the debt of the USA always increases where there is a Republican President, Bill clinton almost had the debt down to 0.

Bullshit. Republicans balance the economy by cutting useless shit, democrats just spend, spend and spend and then blame democrats when the money runs out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ral_budget

These are the data, Hippo. Your claims are ungrounded.

[Hippostania]

Bullshit. Republicans balance the economy by cutting useless shit, democrats just spend, spend and spend and then blame democrats when the money runs out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ral_budget

These are the data, Hippo. Your claims are ungrounded.

Indeed. This chart shows how much Obama's socialist policies have raised the federal debt. Yet another reason to vote Republican!

[Risottia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ral_budget

These are the data, Hippo. Your claims are ungrounded.

Indeed. This chart shows how much Obama's socialist policies have raised the federal debt. Yet another reason to vote Republican!

Because having to maintain two wars and an enormous security apparate, wanted by the Republicans, has no consequence, of course.

On the other hand, one might notice that the US public debt skyrocketed during the Reagan and W administrations (and grew also with Nixon), while the ONLY time the revenue was higher than expenditure was during the Clinton administration. Oh gosh.

[Farnhamia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta ... ral_budget

These are the data, Hippo. Your claims are ungrounded.

Indeed. This chart shows how much Obama's socialist policies have raised the federal debt. Yet another reason to vote Republican!

A good deal of it comes from bringing the cost of George Bush's two wars onto the balance sheet, instead of paying for them under the table with borrowed money. Please show me when we've had a balanced budget under a Republican administration. Reagan promised to do it and then ignored the promise for eight years.