A rather old version of France at that.
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by Milks Empire » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:09 am
by TaQud » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:09 am
by Mindhar » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:10 am
Ovisterra wrote:Mindhar wrote:Except we have this thing called "diplomatic immunity"
as a german citizen he would have to pay the fine if he were just visiting on vacation, but since he was visiting in the capacity of a foreign head of state, diplomatic immunity applies. presumably dating back to the days when arresting the king of france for rape could cause a war in which thousands of lives would be lost so it was better to just overlook any unfortunate "incidents"... the vatican doesn't technically have a military to speak of but it is still something of a temporal power due to the 1 billion or so catholics out there
Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.
by Ifreann » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:10 am
Ovisterra wrote:Mindhar wrote:Except we have this thing called "diplomatic immunity"
as a german citizen he would have to pay the fine if he were just visiting on vacation, but since he was visiting in the capacity of a foreign head of state, diplomatic immunity applies. presumably dating back to the days when arresting the king of france for rape could cause a war in which thousands of lives would be lost so it was better to just overlook any unfortunate "incidents"... the vatican doesn't technically have a military to speak of but it is still something of a temporal power due to the 1 billion or so catholics out there
Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.
by Knootoss » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:43 am
Ethel mermania wrote:Part of the popes job is to impress the masses. How can he impress the masses if he can not stand up and wave.
Does germany have, in its work laws, exemptions fore BoneFied Occupational Qualifications, like in the US?
Communist Finland wrote:Is this a world-wavering event?
Katganistan wrote:On the one hand, he broke the laws of the country he was in.
On the other hand, it's certainly not a crime that harms anyone else as he is not the driver anc therefore cannot lose control of the vehicle should he slide across his seat on a hard turn; he was not arrested or summonsed for it at the time of the infraction, and foreign dignitaries are usually cut a little slack.
Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks.
by Knootoss » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:43 am
Ifreann wrote:Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.
by Ovisterra » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:46 am
Mindhar wrote:Ovisterra wrote:
Diplomatic Immunity seems silly to me. You're in my country, so why the hell shouldn't you obey the law. It's for everyone, that's why it's called the law.
Well see above.
Let's say Barack Obama makes a state visit to France, unaware for whatever reason that France has a law against black people.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse, so he gets arrested and goes to french jail (did we mention that they also did away with trials?)
US is slightly pissed off at having to put up with Joe Biden for the next year or two, asks France to send him back since he's the president and didn't break any American laws.
France says no dice, he broke the law and has to pay the penalty, and also, your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries.
US gets really pissed off, launches nuclear missiles at France, but misses and hits Russia instead.
Entire human population of Earth is eradicated in subsequent nuclear exchange.
All that could have been avoided if there was diplomatic immunity. Or if every country had the same laws, but that's never going to happen anyway. Or if more people had voted for Ron Paul, like the internets wanted, since he would bring about an anarchist reloveution and reorganise the world as a voluntary-syndicalist commune. But that's beside the point.
You can also just read Ifreann's shorter explanation but I'm much cooler than him.
by Ifreann » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:49 am
Knootoss wrote:There are indeed. It's a myth that diplomats cannot get speeding tickets. So why not a ticket for driving without a seatbelt? :>
by Knootoss » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:50 am
Ifreann wrote:Knootoss wrote:There are indeed. It's a myth that diplomats cannot get speeding tickets. So why not a ticket for driving without a seatbelt? :>
I see no reason why not generally, but in this case the actual danger involved seems to be minimal, so I wouldn't be surprised if Germany didn't level any fine.
by Keronians » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:00 pm
Knootoss wrote:From the Irish Times, or just google for any other news sourcePope falls foul of German hosts by shunning seat belt
DEREK SCALLY in Berlin
A GERMAN citizen has filed a complaint against Pope Benedict XVI for not using a seat belt in the Popemobile during his September visit to his homeland.
Lawyer Johannes Christian Sundermann has filed papers in Dortmund on behalf of his unnamed client, charging the Pope with “repeated breaches” of Germany’s seat belt law.
“Herr Joseph Ratzinger, born 16 April 1927 in Marktl/Altötting” travelled on September 24th and 25th “for the duration of more than an hour” without a seat belt, the lawyer states in documents.
Mr Sundermann and his client say they can prove the repeated misdemeanour during his visit to Freiburg – using videos from YouTube.
The lawyer says his client, though not a Catholic, was concerned for the safety of the Pope in his armoured car, which reportedly has a seat belt though it usually moves at a walking pace. As a repeat seat belt offender, the man believes the Pope should face the maximum €2,500 fine allowed.
Mr Sundermann has asked whether the diocese of Freiburg or the state authorities lifted the seat belt obligation for the pontiff.
To that end, he has cited as witnesses to his case the German prelate Robert Zollitsch, archbishop of Freiburg, and Winfried Kretschmann, state premier of Baden-Württemberg.
A spokesperson for the court in Dortmund confirmed papers had been filed but declined to comment further.
The lawyer, a member of the Left Party, says his case will hinge on whether the Pope still holds German citizenship and whether he enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his visit.
A Bundestag question from 2005 established that, though a citizen of the Vatican since 1981, a special arrangement was in place for Pope Benedict to retain his German passport.
The foreign ministry confirmed yesterday that the Pope, as a visiting head of state, enjoyed diplomatic immunity during his recent stay.
However, a government spokesman suggested that the Pope might not be immune from prosecution if he returned to Germany on a private visit.
In Germany, rules are rules.
I think it's an interesting legal quandary. Since it was an official state visit by a foreign Head of State, you'd expect there to be diplomatic immunity. On the other hand, the pope is still a citizen of Germany and he didn't break German law as an integral part of his duties of pope. So... I think a fine is in order!
Do you think the Pope should be convicted?
by Caninope » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:02 pm
Keronians wrote:The Pope is not a German citizen...
Wouldn't the Pope be a citizen of the Vatican City?
Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.
Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.
by Keronians » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:05 pm
by Ifreann » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:05 pm
Keronians wrote:The Pope is not a German citizen...
Wouldn't the Pope be a citizen of the Vatican City?
by Greed and Death » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:16 pm
by Syvorskji » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:17 pm
by Caninope » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:33 pm
Agritum wrote:Arg, Caninope is Captain America under disguise. Everyone knows it.
Frisivisia wrote:Me wrote:Just don't. It'll get you a whole lot further in life if you come to realize you're not the smartest guy in the room, even if you probably are.
Because Caninope may be in that room with you.
Nightkill the Emperor wrote:Thankfully, we have you and EM to guide us to wisdom and truth, holy one. :p
Norstal wrote:What I am saying of course is that we should clone Caninope.
by Lackadaisical2 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:41 pm
Katganistan wrote:Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks.
The Republic of Lanos wrote:Proud member of the Vile Right-Wing Noodle Combat Division of the Imperialist Anti-Socialist Economic War Army Ground Force reporting in.
by West Vandengaarde » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:43 pm
Lackadaisical2 wrote:Katganistan wrote:Conclusion: perhaps he deserves a fine, but most definitely the lawyer and his client are class A pricks.
An astute observation to be sure, I mean, really? Trying to get the pope fined for something so trivial? It just screams to me someone who has a beef with Catholicism.
by Lackadaisical2 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:48 pm
West Vandengaarde wrote:Lackadaisical2 wrote:An astute observation to be sure, I mean, really? Trying to get the pope fined for something so trivial? It just screams to me someone who has a beef with Catholicism.
Just like most of the people in this thread! Maybe there's a high percentage of angry Germans here...
The Republic of Lanos wrote:Proud member of the Vile Right-Wing Noodle Combat Division of the Imperialist Anti-Socialist Economic War Army Ground Force reporting in.
by Ethel mermania » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:53 pm
Knootoss wrote:Ethel mermania wrote:Part of the popes job is to impress the masses. How can he impress the masses if he can not stand up and wave.
Does germany have, in its work laws, exemptions fore BoneFied Occupational Qualifications, like in the US?
Standing upright and waving is an occupational qualification in the United States
by Ifreann » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:53 pm
greed and death wrote:This man has standing to enforce German Seat belt laws ???
The German legal system is weird.
by Idealismania » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:55 pm
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