by Volnotova » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:05 pm
by Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:07 pm
by Vetalia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:09 pm
by Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:10 pm
Vetalia wrote:We= the United States of America (or whoever), i.e. a collective reference to the nation itself. They're not taking personal credit for it...this should be obvious.
by Tosmaldevo » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:11 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Is it really so terrible that people feel connected with the history of their country? And those people never claimed that they personally won the war.
by Volnotova » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:11 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Is it really so terrible that people feel connected with the history of their country? And those people never claimed that they personally won the war.
by Vetalia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:14 pm
Volnotova wrote:[
I am a Jew, am I entitled to claim that I(or better said, We the Jews) came up with the Theories of General and Special Relativity.
by Conserative Morality » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Volnotova wrote:I am a Jew, am I entitled to claim that I(or better said, We the Jews) came up with the Theories of General and Special Relativity.
It is ridiculous, it is laughable.
Connected to the history of your country? You weren't even born, thus you cannot claim you won the war, or that you invented <insertsomethinginventedordiscoveredbyAmericans>.
Those people do claim they personally won the war, because they identify themselves with millions of war veterans by saying "We won the war".
Bollocks, they weren't even around to see the end of the war, let alone having been able to participate in it.
by Vetalia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:15 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Not when you're trying to make a pedantic distinction in order to paint people who are proud of their country's accomplishments in a negative light.
by Revolutopia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:16 pm
by Tosmaldevo » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:17 pm
We, in this context, indicates the individual's identification as a member of x group (i.e. "We [the populace of the victorious states in y war], won the war"). I am assuming you are referring to the Allied Powers during WWII, in which all major members were, or became, involved in 'total war' and hence adopted a war economy - therefore, the entire employed populace of x state contributed to the war effort, meaning the individual is identifying himself as a member of the populace of x and relating himself to the historical populaces who participated in the war economy.Volnotova wrote:Conserative Morality wrote:Is it really so terrible that people feel connected with the history of their country? And those people never claimed that they personally won the war.
I am a Jew, am I entitled to claim that I(or better said, We the Jews) came up with the Theories of General and Special Relativity.
It is ridiculous, it is laughable.
Connected to the history of your country? You weren't even born, thus you cannot claim you won the war, or that you invented <insertsomethinginventedordiscoveredbyAmericans>.
Those people do claim they personally won the war, because they identify themselves with millions of war veterans by saying "We won the war".
Bollocks, they weren't even around to see the end of the war, let alone having been able to participate in it.
by Vetalia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:19 pm
Revolutopia wrote:Do you think that WW2 vets are offended by the use of people saying "We won WW2", because I am guessing that the vast majority are not as they realize the we is being used in the national sense which they probably appreciate.
by Volnotova » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:19 pm
Vetalia wrote:We= the United States of America (or whoever), i.e. a collective reference to the nation itself. They're not taking personal credit for it...this should be obvious. If I say "we suffered greatly during the Depression", it's not because I took part in that period but because it's a true statement about the experience of the American people of the time.
by Tosmaldevo » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:23 pm
Volnotova wrote:Yes you are, if you say "We invented the automobile" that means you are part of a group/team that invented the automobile.
Also note that this rarely happens with events perceived as negative/bad/immoral.
Have you ever seen an American citizen going "We commited mass murder on innocent Vietnamese citizens", "We bombed the Al-Shifa Pharmaceutical Factory", "We tortured innocent citizens in Guantánamo Bay", "We Germans feel guilty for we commited the holocaust" or "We British razed Dresden to the ground, destroying killing tenthousands of innocent civilians"?
by Volnotova » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:28 pm
Vetalia wrote:Volnotova wrote:[
I am a Jew, am I entitled to claim that I(or better said, We the Jews) came up with the Theories of General and Special Relativity.
Nope, that's a pretty ridiculous fallacy. You didn't collectively invent those theories, an individual did, so you can't take credit for them solely on the basis of shared ethnic or national background. However, the American *people* as a whole played a central role in winning WWII so we as a collective group can take pride in our country's accomplishments.
by Anti-Obamaland » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:28 pm
Volnotova wrote:It annoys me so much.
"We won WWII"
"We suffered greatly!"
What a load of bollocks, most of the people on NS weren't even born back then(more then 99%).
So why is it that so many people keep referring to themselves as "we" as if they were somehow part of the war effort.
Not just that, the same can be said about inventions, discoveries, etc.
"I am an American therefore I am entitled to claim I participated in and won WWII" what a load of bollocks and what a filthy and utterly disgusting insult to all the war vetarans that actually fought during those wars.
Sometimes I wonder whether such people actually realise how incredibly stupid they sound when they say such things, same goes for the people that go, "WE INVENTED <insertinventiontheydidn'tcontributeto>!" or "THIS MAKES ME SO PROUD TO BE BRITISH/ROMANIAN/AMERICAN/RUSSIAN/Insertothernationality".
So what do you think NSG, do you too believe it is utterly ridiculous to say such things, to claim to be entitled to victories, discoveries, wars, battles and other defeats and triumphs that you never even contributed to, let alone were born when they occured?
Well, speak your mind NSG.
by Foster » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:29 pm
by Tosmaldevo » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:31 pm
by Vetalia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:31 pm
Volnotova wrote:Yes you are, if you say "We invented the automobile" that means you are part of a group/team that invented the automobile.
If you want to be correct then say "The United States won WWII together with its allies".
"We won the war" only applies if you participated in it(Be it that you signed the peace treaty, were in the army or participated in any way in the war effort).
I have seen so many times the constant bullshit about people going "WE BEAT YOU IN WWII!!!" "WE INVENTED <insertinvention> AND YOU DIDN'T THUS THAT MAKES US BETTER!"
Have you ever seen an American citizen going "We commited mass murder on innocent Vietnamese citizens", "We bombed the Al-Shifa Pharmaceutical Factory", "We tortured innocent citizens in Guantánamo Bay" or "We Germans feel guilty for we commited the holocaust" or "We British razed Dresden to the ground, killing tenthousands of innocent civilians"?
Be a hero and say to my face that you commited the holocaust.
Say it to my face you bombed and razed an import German cultural city to the ground.
Say it to my face that you dropped 2 nuclear bombs and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
What an utter load of bollocks, such hypocrites do not have my respect.
by Northwest Slobovia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:34 pm
Volnotova wrote:It annoys me so much.
"We won WWII"
"We suffered greatly!"
What a load of bollocks, most of the people on NS weren't even born back then(more then 99%).
by Volnotova » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:35 pm
Tosmaldevo wrote:You may have joined this team at a later date, hence you can say "We invented the automobile" with the unsaid clause you were not a part of the team at this time; however, the team still invented and you are a member of this team, and as "we" refers to the team and yourself, you are justified in saying so.
Presumably few people will take pride in participation in events they perceive as immoral.
All of these are debatable as to whether the intention of each event was purely psychosis.
by Great Nepal » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:36 pm
Volnotova wrote:Yes you are, if you say "We invented the automobile" that means you are part of a group/team that invented the automobile.
If you want to be correct then say "The United States won WWII together with its allies".
"We won the war" only applies if you participated in it(Be it that you signed the peace treaty, were in the army or participated in any way in the war effort).
I have seen so many times the constant bullshit about people going "WE BEAT YOU IN WWII!!!" "WE INVENTED <insertinvention> AND YOU DIDN'T THUS THAT MAKES US BETTER!"
Volnotova wrote:The amount ofcollectiveidiocy makes me want to sew the palm of my hand to my face.
Volnotova wrote:Also note that this rarely happens with events perceived as negative/bad/immoral.
Have you ever seen an American citizen going "We commited mass murder on innocent Vietnamese citizens", "We bombed the Al-Shifa Pharmaceutical Factory", "We tortured innocent citizens in Guantánamo Bay" or "We Germans feel guilty for we commited the holocaust" or "We British razed Dresden to the ground, killing tenthousands of innocent civilians"?
No, bullshit.
The entire collective We-Speak nonsense really pisses me off. Be a hero, if you claim to be entitled to all the good things of your country then have the balls to claim to have been part of the bad things to.
Be a hero and say to my face that you commited the holocaust.
Say it to my face you bombed and razed an import German cultural city to the ground.
Say it to my face that you dropped 2 nuclear bombs and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
What an utter load of bollocks, such hypocrites do not have my respect.
by Northwest Slobovia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:39 pm
Volnotova wrote:Also note that this rarely happens with events perceived as negative/bad/immoral.
Have you ever seen an American citizen going "We commited mass murder on innocent Vietnamese citizens", "We bombed the Al-Shifa Pharmaceutical Factory", "We tortured innocent citizens in Guantánamo Bay" or "We Germans feel guilty for we commited the holocaust" or "We British razed Dresden to the ground, killing tenthousands of innocent civilians"?
by Vetalia » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:39 pm
Volnotova wrote:Only if you helped contribute in inventing the automobile.
Just because you are part of a familly that of which 1 or more members won a a noble prize does not mean you are entitled to claim you won the noble prize.
by Demonatrix » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:44 pm
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