Capitalisim vs. Socialisim

[Keronians]

Yeah, they do.

Not all schools are good, and not all teachers are good.

Then they should study harder during their free time. They have the material to do it, ''bad schools'' or ''bad teachers'' are not a good reason to justify person's failures.

Right.

So if I put you into an anti-intellectual environment, and have you taught by a teacher who knows jackshit, or simply doesn't give two shits about the class, and all you have is your textbook, you'll be able to compete nationally and internationally with other students?

Not to mention that often, the textbooks are outdated, and of poor quality.

[Hippostania]

Yes there is. Others who work hard to become rich and succesful have done a lot of work to deserve that. On the other hand, lazy weedsmokers don't deserve shit. They haven't worked hard, they haven't studied, it's their own fault.
It's not the goverment duty to be someone's babysitter, everyone must take care of their own lives, no one else should do it for them.

Because, of course, everyone who's rich got there just by themselves, with nothing more than elbow grease, and everyone in poverty didn't study at school and totally deserves it amirite?

I'm sure that there are a few exceptions, but yeah, that's pretty much true.

[-St George]

That to the millions who want to work but the market economy doesn't hire them. In a socialist country everyone can have the right to work for a living.

It is the government's duty to help its people live, that's what its created for.

They could start a business, it's not as hard as it sounds.
In a socialist society, even the laziest persons get a job, which is not right. If you deliberately ruin your life with your laziness, you should suffer for it.
Goverment's duty is to maintain security, and offer people education. And that's it. It ends there.

Yep. Everyone who's unemployed is unemployed because they're lazy. If you're argument wasn't so retarded it'd be funny.

[Sibirsky]

Here is a perfect example of economically illiterate politicians causing shortages in market economies.

Anti-gouging laws. During a disaster, prices for goods increase. Politicians enforce anti-gouging laws.

In the Northeast US, after Irene some residents were left without power for a week or more. If they were able to make it out, some of them went out, and bought all the generators available, and then there was a shortage. Why? Because prices were not allowed to increase. Generators, of decent power are a few thousand (keep in mind the Northeast is the US' richest region). If prices were allowed to fluctuate (IOW of we had a genuine free market) I could rent a van for $30, pick up a few generators and head to New Jersey to sell them to a profit.

I can hear it now. Sibirsky is an evil capitalist pig, taking advantage of a disaster to make money. Disgusting.



No. It is the free market allocating resources to where they are needed most. We had no shortages of generators here, because we were not as affected. We had them sitting on shelves while New Jersey had none! It's the economically illiterate dumbasses in office causing shortages. They are the disgusting ones.

[Keronians]

That to the millions who want to work but the market economy doesn't hire them. In a socialist country everyone can have the right to work for a living.

It is the government's duty to help its people live, that's what its created for.

They could start a business, it's not as hard as it sounds.
In a socialist society, even the laziest persons get a job, which is not right. If you deliberately ruin your life with your laziness, you should suffer for it.
Goverment's duty is to maintain security, and offer people education. And that's it. It ends there.

Uh, yes. Starting and running a business is very hard. Around 3/5 of new businesses fail in the first year.

[Sibirsky]

Troubled times? In socialist economies the troubled times are always there, That is the norm. In market economies, troubled times only come from legislation, like price controls or rationing. Otherwise prices adjust to get resources to where they are needed. That is entirely the point.

There is nothing in market economies to prevent government providing some basic goods and services. The entire first world does this.

Sorry but first line is simply not true, there isn't always trouble times. All CIS countries were better off in Soviet times speaking economically than present day.

Define first world? Like USA and UK? There's homeless people in both those countries.

Bullshit. Outside of Moscow, shortages were common.

There are shelters for the homeless.

[-St George]

Because, of course, everyone who's rich got there just by themselves, with nothing more than elbow grease, and everyone in poverty didn't study at school and totally deserves it amirite?

I'm sure that there are a few exceptions, but yeah, that's pretty much true.

Bullshit. That is a complete lie, and totally ignores environmental, personal, mental, physical, sociological and anthropological circumstances.

But hey, Mr and Mrs Poor Person don't matter, rite?

[Soviet Russia Republic]

That to the millions who want to work but the market economy doesn't hire them. In a socialist country everyone can have the right to work for a living.

It is the government's duty to help its people live, that's what its created for.

They could start a business, it's not as hard as it sounds.
In a socialist society, even the laziest persons get a job, which is not right. If you deliberately ruin your life with your laziness, you should suffer for it.
Goverment's duty is to maintain security, and offer people education. And that's it. It ends there.

You need money to start a business, right? The unemployed aren't going have the money to. Not everyone has the skills to run one anyway.
Even lazy people deserve to live.
We are in disagreement than.

[Hippostania]

Afaik, all goverments of the Western world offer free education to everyone, everyone have an equal chance to succeed. If you're too lazy to study, you can only blame yourself.

And some people aren't all that smart, and not all education is created equal, and not everyone can be a entrepreneur or astrophysicist. Besides, poverty itself, with is vicissitudes, can be quite a distraction from study.

Oh, and you just contradicted yourself. Your assertion is dependent on free education for all, which is not "making sure they don't commit crimes", because plenty of youth still commit crimes even in school.

Nobody is born smart or dumb. If you study hard, you can become smart. If you're a lazy person who is coming up with excuses like ''bad teachers prevent me from learning'', you're lazy. And you should suffer for it later in life.
If a person who is in school committs a crime while they're in school, they should be punished for it.

Then they should study harder during their free time. They have the material to do it, ''bad schools'' or ''bad teachers'' are not a good reason to justify person's failures.

Right.

So if I put you into an anti-intellectual environment, and have you taught by a teacher who knows jackshit, or simply doesn't give two shits about the class, and all you have is your textbook, you'll be able to compete nationally and internationally with other students?

Not to mention that often, the textbooks are outdated, and of poor quality.

You may not be able to compete nationally, but you can still become good and succeed in life if you study very, very hard. Textbooks still includes all the necessary information.

[Proloteriat]

You all belive that people can just start a company from the ground up and make money like that. The idea of capitalism is that everyone has equal opportunity the idea of Socialism or communism is that everyone is equal. Both of these ideals have been courupted. And well the goverment needs a fair bit of strength the free markets must fill in the gaps.

[Hippostania]

I'm sure that there are a few exceptions, but yeah, that's pretty much true.

Bullshit. That is a complete lie, and totally ignores environmental, personal, mental, physical, sociological and anthropological circumstances.

But hey, Mr and Mrs Poor Person don't matter, rite?

No, it is true. Environmental, personal, mental, physical, sociological and anthropological circumstances are useless in my opinion, it is you who can change and affect your life, you and you only. Blaming others for your failures is ridiculous.

They could start a business, it's not as hard as it sounds.
In a socialist society, even the laziest persons get a job, which is not right. If you deliberately ruin your life with your laziness, you should suffer for it.
Goverment's duty is to maintain security, and offer people education. And that's it. It ends there.

You need money to start a business, right? The unemployed aren't going have the money to. Not everyone has the skills to run one anyway.
Even lazy people deserve to live.
We are in disagreement than.

Well, first we have to figure out why they are unemployed. Did they study something that was useless? It is easy to know if some field has jobs or not, and it is fairly easy to predict how it will change in the future.
And yeah, lazy people deserve to LIVE. That's it. They don't deserve anything else. The police will protect their life from murderers or other nutjobs, but that's it.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Sorry but first line is simply not true, there isn't always trouble times. All CIS countries were better off in Soviet times speaking economically than present day.

Define first world? Like USA and UK? There's homeless people in both those countries.

Bullshit. Outside of Moscow, shortages were common.

There are shelters for the homeless.

This was a limited time, not for the majority, it happen during a economic crisis. Its unfair to judge an entire country's history on one part of its life.

W a great life they will have there.

[Sibirsky]

They're lazy or they have made wrong choices and now they're paying for their mistakes.
It's not the goverment's duty to help them. The goverment's duty is to make sure that they don't commit crimes and if they do, jail them. That's the only responsibility that the goverment has.

That to the millions who want to work but the market economy doesn't hire them. In a socialist country everyone can have the right to work for a living.

It is the government's duty to help its people live, that's what its created for.

The USSR had an unemployment rate of 0%. Awesome, right?

Wrong. The standard of living was a tiny fraction of what it was in the west.

[Vestr-Norig]

Agrarian/Christian Socialism.

[Sibirsky]

Bullshit. Outside of Moscow, shortages were common.

There are shelters for the homeless.

This was a limited time, not for the majority, it happen during a economic crisis. Its unfair to judge an entire country's history on one part of its life.

W a great life they will have there.

You are missing the point. Centrally planned production and distribution, is simply inefficient. That is what caused the majority of the shortages. And it was not during limited times. It was common.

Shelters help them get back on their feet.

[Keronians]

And some people aren't all that smart, and not all education is created equal, and not everyone can be a entrepreneur or astrophysicist. Besides, poverty itself, with is vicissitudes, can be quite a distraction from study.

Oh, and you just contradicted yourself. Your assertion is dependent on free education for all, which is not "making sure they don't commit crimes", because plenty of youth still commit crimes even in school.

Nobody is born smart or dumb. If you study hard, you can become smart. If you're a lazy person who is coming up with excuses like ''bad teachers prevent me from learning'', you're lazy. And you should suffer for it later in life.
If a person who is in school committs a crime while they're in school, they should be punished for it.

Right.

So if I put you into an anti-intellectual environment, and have you taught by a teacher who knows jackshit, or simply doesn't give two shits about the class, and all you have is your textbook, you'll be able to compete nationally and internationally with other students?

Not to mention that often, the textbooks are outdated, and of poor quality.

You may not be able to compete nationally, but you can still become good and succeed in life if you study very, very hard. Textbooks still includes all the necessary information.

People are indeed born smart or dumb.

If the textbooks are outdated, they may not contain all the necessary information which is examined in the syllabus. For example, the A level was reformed in 2008. If you had a textbook older than 3 years, you wouldn't have had all the necessary information.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

That to the millions who want to work but the market economy doesn't hire them. In a socialist country everyone can have the right to work for a living.

It is the government's duty to help its people live, that's what its created for.

The USSR had an unemployment rate of 0%. Awesome, right?

Wrong. The standard of living was a tiny fraction of what it was in the west.

In the west a tiny fraction had and still has the vast majority of the wealth, it should be shared with everyone! The resources shouldn't be owned by a single person or small group, but the people all together.

[Cologno]

Hippostania wrote:
Afaik, all goverments of the Western world offer free education to everyone, everyone have an equal chance to succeed. If you're too lazy to study, you can only blame yourself.

Every male has penis,so everyone have an equal chance to become a pornstar

[Sibirsky]

The USSR had an unemployment rate of 0%. Awesome, right?

Wrong. The standard of living was a tiny fraction of what it was in the west.

In the west a tiny fraction had and still has the vast majority of the wealth, it should be shared with everyone! The resources shouldn't be owned by a single person or small group, but the people all together.

Stop lying. This is pure bullshit.

In the west, the poor are better off than the middle classes of socialist economies.

[Proloteriat]

I can tell your all middle class people. I know a man who has been trying to get a job for a decade he's never managed to get the opportunity.

[-St George]

Bullshit. That is a complete lie, and totally ignores environmental, personal, mental, physical, sociological and anthropological circumstances.

But hey, Mr and Mrs Poor Person don't matter, rite?

No, it is true. Environmental, personal, mental, physical, sociological and anthropological circumstances are useless in my opinion, it is you who can change and affect your life, you and you only. Blaming others for your failures is ridiculous.

Yep. It's totally the fault of a person born into poverty, into an impoverished area, with a bad schools, and a family needing him to work rather than study in order to make ends meet. Yep, totally said person's fault.

Also nice to see that you blame disabled people for being disabled.

[Sibirsky]

I can tell your all middle class people. I know a man who has been trying to get a job for a decade he's never managed to get the opportunity.

Anecdotal evidence.

Either he is looking in the wrong industry, or his skill do not command his asking price.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

In the west a tiny fraction had and still has the vast majority of the wealth, it should be shared with everyone! The resources shouldn't be owned by a single person or small group, but the people all together.

Stop lying. This is pure bullshit.

In the west, the poor are better off than the middle classes of socialist economies.

You ignored what I said and I was not talking about the middle classes before.

[Proloteriat]

In the west, the poor are better off than the middle classes of socialist economies.[/quote]

Middle classes in socialist economies there's only working class at the bottom and ruling classes at the top.

[Red Indus]

You, on the other hand are a terrible person; you support murdering innocent managers and stealing other people's property. That is unacceptable! D:<

I'm not going to say they aren't offering a possibility of a better life, but most of the profit goes to the manager, probably many times over the work they have done.