The 'Age Of America' Is Ending, with China Starting

[Swkoll]

:rofl: Not happening, even if it does, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because the US is in such a later stage of economic development, high-tech jobs and little manufacturing. While China's economy is almost all manufacturing. If the started caring about pollution and workers rights, they would decline again. Sort of what happened with Japan.

But they do care, There is a lot of argument through ignorance in this thread.
http://www.hnzmedia.com/events/cgts-ev2011/en/bg.asp

They pollute, a lot more than the US, end of story. They do have green incentives, but their factories are still very bad.

[Sibirsky]

China treats its own people like utter shit, though.

america is also asked to be the world police. if something goes wrong everyone looks to america to fix their problems. look at japan. the whole world makes a big deal about it and america brings in 90% of all the aid. did anyone but america help after huricane Katrina? no. no one helps america or gives a shit about us unless they have a problem they want fixed. sure. go ahead and talk shit about us, criticize and complain. we will just stop sending you the vast majority of the food you eat. we control it bitches. the food is ours. dont ask for disaster aid, dont ask us to help free oppressed nations like libya, dont ask us for shit until you learn to shut the fuck up with the criticizing. Do something for yourselves. NATO and the UN are nothing without us. so good luck defending freedom without america. Peace out Bitches

You make us look bad. If Mexico and Cuba can help us, we can help Japan. We do not control food. It's ok to criticize, as long as the criticism is warranted, and constructive.

Impoverished Bangladesh, where millions live on a monsoon- and flood-prone delta, pledged $1 million and offered rescuers. Thailand, recalling U.S. aid after last year's tsunami, offered to send 60 doctors and nurses as well as rice as a "gesture from the heart."

They are among more than 90 countries, rich and poor, proposing assistance to victims of Hurricane Katrina, with Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates contributing "very large cash" donations, the State Department said Tuesday.

The Bush administration eagerly accepted a German offer of high-speed pumps to reduce the floodwaters in New Orleans and a Dutch offer of experts on levee reconstruction.
"There is a process of matching needs with expertise and the donations that have been made," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

Some offers may not be accepted
He indicated that the U.S. health care system is meeting current needs stemming from the hurricane. That could mean that offers of medical experts from Cuba and other countries will not be accepted, but McCormack said no decisions have been made.
He said decisions on proposals from foreign governments will be based on needs and not political considerations. Cuba has offered 1,100 doctors for hurricane relief despite the hostile political relations between the two countries. Havana has repeatedly rejected U.S. offers of humanitarian relief over the years.
In some cases, relief was already on the way.

In Halifax, Nova Scotia, three Canadian navy ships, a coast guard vessel, several Sea King helicopters and about 1,000 personnel were preparing to leave for Louisiana. The ships packed supplies for two to three months.

Help from Canada and Mexico
"Canada was built by neighbors helping neighbors in times of crisis. That doesn't apply just within our borders," Prime Minister Paul Martin said at the naval dockyard.
On Monday, the Mexican navy ship Papaloapan left the Gulf coast port of Tampico and headed for New Orleans with eight all-terrain rescue vehicles, seven amphibious cargo vehicles, a mobile hospital, two helicopters and drinking water.
A Mexican army convoy of 15 vehicles was to follow, carrying food, medical workers, water-treatment facilities and mobile kitchens capable of feeding 7,000 people daily.
"Mexico and the United States are nations which are neighbors and friends which should always have solidarity in moments of difficulty," President Vicente Fox said.
European Union spokeswoman Barbara Helfferich said there were some transport problems with aid bound for the United States, noting that a Swedish transport plane filled with food and water-treatment tools had not been able to get landing permission.

Surprise by slow emergency response
Even as foreign governments offered aid, many people overseas expressed shock at the slow emergency response, poverty and racial inequality they say the images from New Orleans have exposed.
Jurek Kuczkiewicz, in an editorial this week in the Belgian newspaper Le Soir, noted that the United States had been confronted with a "human and economic toll immeasurably heavier than the attacks of 2001 on New York."
"It would not be unreasonable to think that the famous 'war on terror' will suddenly seem trivial with regard to the necessary war on poverty and inequality," he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9231819/ns/ ... road_back/

[Sibirsky]

"Predicted" That is if every single factor stays the exact same. I can tell you right now China will be in for a rude awakening soon enough. China cannot become a super power without the ability to feed it's own people. The agricultural sector of China is backwards, extremely backwards. Put simply, Chinese farming is roughly equal to that of farming in Medieval Europe. That combined with the rapid desertification (which I understand they are trying to slow, but that is much easier said than done), an ever increasing population that is already the largest of the world, and the fact that many of the young and able are leaving the farmland to find work in the cities (I've spoken with someone who is from China (presumably, that or he has been there quite a bit) who has said that some do wind up returning to the farms, but I believe many more stay in the cities).

Even if you disregard that, the only reason China is such a bastion for capitalism is because of the extremely cheap wages for the working class. That never lasts, especially in a country as larges as China. Compare it to the late 19th and early 20th century America, and you'll see that as time went on things changed. Things will change, whether by the current government or one that replaces them at the will of the people remains to be seen, but things will change. As a result companies will shun China for newer, greener pastures. And by newer greener pastures, I mean places where you can pay your workers a dime for a days pay.

Basically, China isn't the god so many dub it. If you ask me who I think will be the next big player, I'd say Brazil, not China.

The farming issue, is more than just food though. Relatively inefficient farming like that, keeps the unemployment rate down. People get pissy without jobs.

[Hegstoria]

"Predicted" That is if every single factor stays the exact same. I can tell you right now China will be in for a rude awakening soon enough. China cannot become a super power without the ability to feed it's own people. The agricultural sector of China is backwards, extremely backwards. Put simply, Chinese farming is roughly equal to that of farming in Medieval Europe. That combined with the rapid desertification (which I understand they are trying to slow, but that is much easier said than done), an ever increasing population that is already the largest of the world, and the fact that many of the young and able are leaving the farmland to find work in the cities (I've spoken with someone who is from China (presumably, that or he has been there quite a bit) who has said that some do wind up returning to the farms, but I believe many more stay in the cities).

Even if you disregard that, the only reason China is such a bastion for capitalism is because of the extremely cheap wages for the working class. That never lasts, especially in a country as larges as China. Compare it to the late 19th and early 20th century America, and you'll see that as time went on things changed. Things will change, whether by the current government or one that replaces them at the will of the people remains to be seen, but things will change. As a result companies will shun China for newer, greener pastures. And by newer greener pastures, I mean places where you can pay your workers a dime for a days pay.

Basically, China isn't the god so many dub it. If you ask me who I think will be the next big player, I'd say Brazil, not China.

The farming issue, is more than just food though. Relatively inefficient farming like that, keeps the unemployment rate down. People get pissy without jobs.

Au contraire. It's not economically viable to be farmer for most Chinese. That's why there's a mass exodus of the young and able bodied to the cities to work, leaving only children and the elderly to till the farms.

[Hittanryan]

The US is dependent on China for cheap manufacturing, China is dependent on the US' appetite for cheap consumer goods. China can't exist as an economic superpower without the US remaining one. The "Age of America" is something of a myth. When most people think of the "Age of America," they think of the 1950s, where a whole bunch of external factors created unique circumstances that will probably never be repeated again. There was no foreign competition because everyone else had their manufacturing base bombed in WW2 (or had none to begin with). You could be part of the middle class as an assembly line worker (as long as you were white). Time to face facts, the world is a different place now. Since then, we've gotten short sighted. All the big issues get kicked down the line and no one ever wants to change anything. Politicians say "The American Way is the best way, because it's American!" even as the rest of the world leaves us behind. I say, we need to join the 21st century some day.

China has a ton of its own issues to deal with. The CCP is primarily concerned with maintaining its own grip on power amongst a vast population. Even China's military will have a hard time if enough of those billion people decide to revolt. The PRC has to keep its population employed with a good standard of living, or the Chinese people might start to actively pursue a few problematic ideals like freedom of speech, the press, and what have you. It already has problems in Tibet and Xinjiang.

The two things that concern me the most about China becoming a true superpower are its lack of respect for human rights, and a ridiculously materialistic culture that's emerging (based on someone I know who visits China regularly and does business there). Let's say, for instance, there's some kind of war brewing in the Third World. If left alone, it will remain a minor, isolated conflict. What happens if Chinese arms manufacturers (or other companies who can provide vital logistics) see a market there? When the neighbors see the resulting military buildup, will they rush to arm themselves as well? Will the Chinese government reign this sort of thing in, or allow it to continue as long as it keeps China's huge population content?

[Sailsia]

The actual age of America existed before world war one. After that, the US economy has slowly lost its grip on the world, even if our political grip has remained strong. Of course, I'm happy the US doesn't have to live up to that god damn Hyperpower thing. The US and China pretty much have an economic union as it is, I'd say we have both been super powers for years.

[Jedi8246]

Another major problem is that China's entire economy is somewhat of a bubble. It grows at these large rates, but doesn't have the support, so to speak, to back it up. All it would take is a little pressure, and POP! China is in revolution mode with all of the manufacturing put on hold. In my opinion, China becoming an economic superpower would cause major world problems. The US should retain it's place. As many mistakes as it makes, it's economy helps bind the world together. If the US were to "fall", the world would face some major problems. Not that I think a US fall is very likely.

[Vetalia]

Why do people say things like this? I don't get it.. why is it ok to just make sh*t up and pass it off as true.

They don't have that base. China isn't a scientific innovator in any meaningful sense...they can buy technology from abroad but they've yet to develop their own inherent base. Also, intellectual property theft is so rampant it's having a hugely negative effect on the quality of their universities and scientific research.

[Sibirsky]

The farming issue, is more than just food though. Relatively inefficient farming like that, keeps the unemployment rate down. People get pissy without jobs.

Au contraire. It's not economically viable to be farmer for most Chinese. That's why there's a mass exodus of the young and able bodied to the cities to work, leaving only children and the elderly to till the farms.

Did I say farming pays well? Nope, I did not. All I said was, that if the Chinese got this farming technology we have, and increased their efficiency to our levels, a bunch of farmers would be out of work.

[Xanicea]

Why do people say things like this? I don't get it.. why is it ok to just make sh*t up and pass it off as true.

They don't have that base. China isn't a scientific innovator in any meaningful sense...they can buy technology from abroad but they've yet to develop their own inherent base. Also, intellectual property theft is so rampant it's having a hugely negative effect on the quality of their universities and scientific research.

China's university research and scientific advancements are laughable. They're years behind a modern economy and as such years behind becoming a super power. Most of the research they currently have is actually bought abroad (as Vetalia said) from Japan, the United States, and other more advanced nations.

[Otrenia]

Well if they do surpass us I'll finally get to see what it feels like to live in every other country in the world a less successful nation.

[Hegstoria]

Au contraire. It's not economically viable to be farmer for most Chinese. That's why there's a mass exodus of the young and able bodied to the cities to work, leaving only children and the elderly to till the farms.

Did I say farming pays well? Nope, I did not. All I said was, that if the Chinese got this farming technology we have, and increased their efficiency to our levels, a bunch of farmers would be out of work.

Oh I get what your saying now. Semantics really, semantics.

[Xanicea]

Well if they do surpass us I'll finally get to see what it feels like to live in every other country in the world a less successful nation.

You mean like Mexico? Already been there. It's not much different from over here.

Also, China needs to stop raging so hard. I'm afraid one day the CPC will have an aneurysm or something...

[Sibirsky]

Did I say farming pays well? Nope, I did not. All I said was, that if the Chinese got this farming technology we have, and increased their efficiency to our levels, a bunch of farmers would be out of work.

Oh I get what your saying now. Semantics really, semantics.

It has nothing to do with semantics.

Well if they do surpass us I'll finally get to see what it feels like to live in every other country in the world a less successful nation.

China's growth does not make the US any less successful.

Well if they do surpass us I'll finally get to see what it feels like to live in every other country in the world a less successful nation.

You mean like Mexico? Already been there. It's not much different from over here.

Also, China needs to stop raging so hard. I'm afraid one day the CPC will have an aneurysm or something...

The standard of living in Mexico is 3.4 times lower than it is in the US. That's very different than it is here.