Quick! Support an unconstitutional feelgood bill!

[Sarkhaan]

http://hutchison.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=523

The Bill


Yeah, warms the cockles of your patriotic heart, right? What could possibly be wrong with this?

Let us count the ways.

1) This one's just a technicality, but the bill is pretty clearly an apportionment bill, which are supposed to originate in the House

2) The bill gives the Secretary of the Treasury the authority to appropriate funds. The Constitution is very explicit about this: As Section 9 of Article 1 states: "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time." This bill is clearly unconstitutional on face.

3) The only reason why soldiers wouldn't get paid is because there would be no one to sign their checks. As salaried workers that are effectively on duty at all times, they can't be not paid; it's against the law. Unfortunately, they'll have to wait until the end of the shutdown to actually be paid. Unlike the other government workers, mind you.

I wouldn't be so worked up about this if it weren't for the fact that 79 US Senators sponsored this bill!

Of course, with the mindless "Support the troops" mentality that's been hammered into people here, this kind of shenaniganery is to be expected. But when a supermajority of the Senate, supposedly the dispassionate, august body of learned minds, latches onto such a short-term non-issue that has already resolved itself (see the budget deal), I think it's safe to say that the US Constitution is broken beyond repair.

Fact of the matter is even though it is unconstitutional it is NEEDED. These people have families and bills to pay, they don't get paid then the companies they owe money to don't get paid. Basically not paying them would have made the recession a bit worse, not to mention it is not very smart to piss off the people who hold more guns then you.

Everyone has bills to pay. Covering just the military is pointless. They need to stop being children and do their jobs, and stop fellating the military.

[Sarkhaan]

A lot of federal employees have families to support and are serving our nation. Why is the military somehow more important?

They have the guns and could easily kill us all...

So because we are afraid, we should pay them and no one else? Brilliant.

[Buurdland]

Fact of the matter is even though it is unconstitutional it is NEEDED. These people have families and bills to pay, they don't get paid then the companies they owe money to don't get paid. Basically not paying them would have made the recession a bit worse, not to mention it is not very smart to piss off the people who hold more guns then you.

Everyone has bills to pay. Covering just the military is pointless. They need to stop being children and do their jobs, and stop fellating the military.

These average people don't have the big guns and bombs...

[Sarkhaan]

Everyone has bills to pay. Covering just the military is pointless. They need to stop being children and do their jobs, and stop fellating the military.

These average people don't have the big guns and bombs...

So?

[Neo Art]

You've never been to the post office

They have a lot of guns too! However they were going to be paid!

Um, in the event of a federal shut down the post office almost CERTAINLY would have been furloughed.

In fact, that's the more fucked up thing. The military, because they are "essential staff" whose purpose is to protect life and property are, by contractual obligation, MUST be paid, even if the government shuts down. The worst that would happen to them, the VERY worst that could possibly happen to them, is that their paychecks come LATER, and retroactively. Which would suck certainly, especially if you're living paycheck to paycheck, but they'd always get paid, and a gaurenteed paycheck at a later date is great collateral for a small, short term loan if you absolutely MUST get something to get by.

But the hundreds of THOUSANDS of federal civilian employees that would have been effected by this? They'd just be temporarily laid off, and would never receive the money retroactively, they'd just lose their jobs at the time.

Which makes this doubly nausia indusing, gaurenteeing the one group of the government that's actually ensured that they WOULD be paid, just to tell them "well we will make sure your checks don't even get slowed down.....unless you're a park ranger, or an IRS accountant, or an NIH grant administrator, or a social security disability customer service representative....in which case FUCK you guys, go call unemployment, you're not getting shit at ALL"

[The Batorys]

Military personnel are employees of the federal government.

Just like thousands of other federal workers who won't get paid, who also have families to support.

This bill can go fuck itself.

[Neo Art]

Military personnel are employees of the federal government.

Just like thousands of other federal workers who won't get paid, who also have families to support.

This bill can go fuck itself.

and again, military personnel are considered "essential" personnel. They'd ALWAYS be paid and would not have their ACTUAL pay effected by the shut down. The worst that would happen to them is they'd get their checks late, because the personnel that processes their payroll has been furloughed.

Yeah, that's the fucked up part, all this bill would ensure they'd get paid timely, they were NEVER in danger of actually LOSING pay.

But the federal civilian employees? Yeah, they'd be fucked.

[SaintB]

Military personnel are employees of the federal government.

Just like thousands of other federal workers who won't get paid, who also have families to support.

This bill can go fuck itself.

and again, military personnel are considered "essential" personnel. They'd ALWAYS be paid and would not have their ACTUAL pay effected by the shut down. The worst that would happen to them is they'd get their checks late, because the personnel that processes their payroll has been furloughed.

Yeah, that's the fucked up part, all this bill would ensure they'd get paid timely, they were NEVER in danger of actually LOSING pay.

But the federal civilian employees? Yeah, they'd be fucked.

Who else also gets payed? *cought*theentireelectorate**cough*

[Buurdland]

They have a lot of guns too! However they were going to be paid!

Um, in the event of a federal shut down the post office almost CERTAINLY would have been furloughed.

In fact, that's the more fucked up thing. The military, because they are "essential staff" whose purpose is to protect life and property are, by contractual obligation, MUST be paid, even if the government shuts down. The worst that would happen to them, the VERY worst that could possibly happen to them, is that their paychecks come LATER, and retroactively. Which would suck certainly, especially if you're living paycheck to paycheck, but they'd always get paid, and a gaurenteed paycheck at a later date is great collateral for a small, short term loan if you absolutely MUST get something to get by.

But the hundreds of THOUSANDS of federal civilian employees that would have been effected by this? They'd just be temporarily laid off, and would never receive the money retroactively, they'd just lose their jobs at the time.

Which makes this doubly nausia indusing, gaurenteeing the one group of the government that's actually ensured that they WOULD be paid, just to tell them "well we will make sure your checks don't even get slowed down.....unless you're a park ranger, or an IRS accountant, or an NIH grant administrator, or a social security disability customer service representative....in which case FUCK you guys, go call unemployment, you're not getting shit at ALL"

Did you look at the official shutdown list? Post Office was going to be active.

[Ashmoria]

Um, in the event of a federal shut down the post office almost CERTAINLY would have been furloughed.

In fact, that's the more fucked up thing. The military, because they are "essential staff" whose purpose is to protect life and property are, by contractual obligation, MUST be paid, even if the government shuts down. The worst that would happen to them, the VERY worst that could possibly happen to them, is that their paychecks come LATER, and retroactively. Which would suck certainly, especially if you're living paycheck to paycheck, but they'd always get paid, and a gaurenteed paycheck at a later date is great collateral for a small, short term loan if you absolutely MUST get something to get by.

But the hundreds of THOUSANDS of federal civilian employees that would have been effected by this? They'd just be temporarily laid off, and would never receive the money retroactively, they'd just lose their jobs at the time.

Which makes this doubly nausia indusing, gaurenteeing the one group of the government that's actually ensured that they WOULD be paid, just to tell them "well we will make sure your checks don't even get slowed down.....unless you're a park ranger, or an IRS accountant, or an NIH grant administrator, or a social security disability customer service representative....in which case FUCK you guys, go call unemployment, you're not getting shit at ALL"

Did you look at the official shutdown list? Post Office was going to be active.

yeah

the post office is a semi-private corporation that pays for itself. it isnt funded by the federal budget.

[The Atlantean Menace]

I'm fine with a one-time violation of the Constitution in order to PAY THE FREAKING MILITARY.

These people have families to support and are serving our nation.

Guess what? All federal employees "have families to support and are serving our nation."

Well, except for the job lots that don't have families. Which includes quite a few people in the military.

I'm not OK with a one-time violation of the Constitution in order to pay the military. If you like, think of it as one example of why it's so important to pass a budget.

You care about a piece of paper that's almost 250 years old more than you care about the men and women who protect you? I think you need to get your priorities in order.

[SaintB]

Guess what? All federal employees "have families to support and are serving our nation."

Well, except for the job lots that don't have families. Which includes quite a few people in the military.

I'm not OK with a one-time violation of the Constitution in order to pay the military. If you like, think of it as one example of why it's so important to pass a budget.

You care about a piece of paper that's almost 250 years old more than you care about the men and women who protect you? I think you need to get your priorities in order.

Yes I do, and so should the people who are sworn to protect it. Ever think you needed to reorder YOUR priorities?

[Vectrova]

Guess what? All federal employees "have families to support and are serving our nation."

Well, except for the job lots that don't have families. Which includes quite a few people in the military.

I'm not OK with a one-time violation of the Constitution in order to pay the military. If you like, think of it as one example of why it's so important to pass a budget.

You care about a piece of paper that's almost 250 years old more than you care about the men and women who protect you? I think you need to get your priorities in order.

We care about ideas. Ideas that safeguard us from tyranny, shortsightedness, and blitheringly stupid and unnecessary bills.

Unfortunately, you seem to think otherwise.

[Syvorji]

One more reason why the DPRK should depose Obama, and in its place, put in a loyal American soldier to the DPRK. That way, new government, new constitution, and freedom from insanity. So, after Obama, it will be... Siad Barre.

[Hellsgrind]

supporting civilian and contractor personnel

Lumping the likes of the US Army and the Mercenaries from Blackwater together is ...sickening.

[Natapoc]

*shrugs*, it's the fact that they're well paid is why I don't generally throw out much "support the troops!" mentality. They don't exactly have much in common with random guy at Valley Forge or Gettysburg these days.

Starting pay is only $1,467.60 per month. Now, they get allowances for food and housing if they are not housed in military quarters, they get other allowances for being overseas, or in danger zones. Pay goes up with rank and experience, but most of them are far from well paid.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militar ... ble1-4.pdf

$1,467.60 per month is certainly nothing to complain about since food and housing are taken care of. I'd say they are well paid.

[Caninope]

supporting civilian and contractor personnel

Lumping the likes of the US Army and the Mercenaries from Blackwater together is ...sickening.

Security contractors aren't the only kinds of contractors.

[Caninope]

Starting pay is only $1,467.60 per month. Now, they get allowances for food and housing if they are not housed in military quarters, they get other allowances for being overseas, or in danger zones. Pay goes up with rank and experience, but most of them are far from well paid.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militar ... ble1-4.pdf

$1,467.60 per month is certainly nothing to complain about since food and housing are taken care of. I'd say they are well paid.

The military's food and housing, while decent, isn't exactly gourmet and is like college dorms, respectively.

Not as great a deal as you're making it out to be.

[Hellsgrind]

Lumping the likes of the US Army and the Mercenaries from Blackwater together is ...sickening.

Security contractors aren't the only kinds of contractors.

Yeah, but the idea of it is just sickening.

[The Atlantean Menace]

You care about a piece of paper that's almost 250 years old more than you care about the men and women who protect you? I think you need to get your priorities in order.

We care about ideas. Ideas that safeguard us from tyranny, shortsightedness, and blitheringly stupid and unnecessary bills.

Unfortunately, you seem to think otherwise.

I oppose letting our soldiers hang out to dry because some idiots couldn't make a decision.

[Christian Democrats]

I do not see how this bill is unconstitutional. Article 1, Section 7, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution states:

"All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills." [emphasis added]

The bill in question does not raise revenue.

[Tahar Joblis]

Guess what? All federal employees "have families to support and are serving our nation."

Well, except for the job lots that don't have families. Which includes quite a few people in the military.

I'm not OK with a one-time violation of the Constitution in order to pay the military. If you like, think of it as one example of why it's so important to pass a budget.

You care about a piece of paper that's almost 250 years old more than you care about the men and women who protect you? I think you need to get your priorities in order.

Violating the Constitution in order to pay people to protect the nation run by that Constitution is a little like pimping out your daughter to pay for a chaperone to make sure she doesn't have sex before you marry her off.

[L3 Communications]

*shrugs*, it's the fact that they're well paid is why I don't generally throw out much "support the troops!" mentality. They don't exactly have much in common with random guy at Valley Forge or Gettysburg these days.

Most enlisted are just over the poverty line, actually. I think E-2 makes like $24,000 and E-3 makes $26,000?

Soldiers are paid like shit and worked like dogs, tbh.

[SaintB]

$1,467.60 per month is certainly nothing to complain about since food and housing are taken care of. I'd say they are well paid.

The military's food and housing, while decent, isn't exactly gourmet and is like college dorms, respectively.

Not as great a deal as you're making it out to be.

And in college they'd be PAYING $1,467 a month for that.

[SaintB]

We care about ideas. Ideas that safeguard us from tyranny, shortsightedness, and blitheringly stupid and unnecessary bills.

Unfortunately, you seem to think otherwise.

I oppose letting our soldiers hang out to dry because some idiots couldn't make a decision.

what is hard to understand about "Soldiers already get payed anyway"? Any violation of the Constitution for any reason sets precedent for continued violations and I will oppose any violation no matter who it might benefit.