Duelling: A practice that would prevent more deaths

[Camicon]

Since when have people dueled by jouting?

It's canada, you have to make due with the moose at hand.

Oh, no, I'm not questioning the moose, I'm questioning the joust. Jousting is for hoighty-toighty nobles who while away their days at tournaments or court. Us regular folks can't even afford to stable a moose, let alone it's barding. And jousting lances aren't exactly cheap you know.

I'm going to say no. Dueling, as it was in the past, should remain where it belongs, in the past. The only way I could support dueling is if it was strictly regulated, and non-lethal only.

So... fencing, then.

[Aellex]

I think it's only fair to note, before some of you decide to challenge the mod team to a duel, that I used to fence; at a fairly low competitive level, and more years ago than I'd care to admit, but I did enter competitions.

I never took up epee, but I trained with both foil and sabre.

Most of you are at least half my age; so you would at least have age in your favour, I suppose.

To be fair, I'm not sure a competitive fencer would have all that much of an advantage given that modern competitive fencing is all about hitting the enemy first rather than avoiding getting hit.
While he will most probably get the satisfaction of skewering his less-skilled opponent first, there is no real point to it if he does just the same thing half a second later.
After all, in a duel to the death, someone ain't going to stop trying to kill you just because you touched him first and, unless you managed to hit him critically in a vital part, he will probably still have quite some time to try and do so.

[Ethel mermania]

It's canada, you have to make due with the moose at hand.

Oh, no, I'm not questioning the moose, I'm questioning the joust. Jousting is for hoighty-toighty nobles who while away their days at tournaments or court. Us regular folks can't even afford to stable a moose, let alone it's barding. And jousting lances aren't exactly cheap you know.

I'm going to say no. Dueling, as it was in the past, should remain where it belongs, in the past. The only way I could support dueling is if it was strictly regulated, and non-lethal only.

So... fencing, then.

You make fair points, though I am partial to crash of the Lance on nobLe mooseback.

[Gun Manufacturers]

It's canada, you have to make due with the moose at hand.

Oh, no, I'm not questioning the moose, I'm questioning the joust. Jousting is for hoighty-toighty nobles who while away their days at tournaments or court. Us regular folks can't even afford to stable a moose, let alone it's barding. And jousting lances aren't exactly cheap you know.

I'm going to say no. Dueling, as it was in the past, should remain where it belongs, in the past. The only way I could support dueling is if it was strictly regulated, and non-lethal only.

So... fencing, then.

The use of Shinai, or paintball markers would work as well.

[Gauthier]

I think it's only fair to note, before some of you decide to challenge the mod team to a duel, that I used to fence; at a fairly low competitive level, and more years ago than I'd care to admit, but I did enter competitions.

I never took up epee, but I trained with both foil and sabre.

Most of you are at least half my age; so you would at least have age in your favour, I suppose.

New final appeals process. Trial by combat.

You kill the mod and you become the new mod.

[Sanctissima]

I think it's only fair to note, before some of you decide to challenge the mod team to a duel, that I used to fence; at a fairly low competitive level, and more years ago than I'd care to admit, but I did enter competitions.

I never took up epee, but I trained with both foil and sabre.

Most of you are at least half my age; so you would at least have age in your favour, I suppose.

To be fair, I'm not sure a competitive fencer would have all that much of an advantage given that modern competitive fencing is all about hitting the enemy first rather than avoiding getting hit.
While he will most probably get the satisfaction of skewering his less-skilled opponent first, there is no real point to it if he does just the same thing half a second later.
After all, in a duel to the death, someone ain't going to stop trying to kill you just because you touched him first and, unless you managed to hit him critically in a vital part, he will probably still have quite some time to try and do so.

You say that, but I imagine most of the people who went up against these sword masters thought the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destreza

If I recall correctly, there was one Spaniard from Madrid who duelled about a dozen men, successively. He defeated and skewered every single one.

[United Muscovite Nations]

To be fair, I'm not sure a competitive fencer would have all that much of an advantage given that modern competitive fencing is all about hitting the enemy first rather than avoiding getting hit.
While he will most probably get the satisfaction of skewering his less-skilled opponent first, there is no real point to it if he does just the same thing half a second later.
After all, in a duel to the death, someone ain't going to stop trying to kill you just because you touched him first and, unless you managed to hit him critically in a vital part, he will probably still have quite some time to try and do so.

You say that, but I imagine most of the people who went up against these sword masters thought the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destreza

If I recall correctly, there was one Spaniard from Madrid who duelled about a dozen men, successively. He defeated and skewered every single one.

That wasn't modern competitive fencing. Modern competitive fencing just plain doesn't teach swordsmanship.

[Sanctissima]

You say that, but I imagine most of the people who went up against these sword masters thought the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destreza

If I recall correctly, there was one Spaniard from Madrid who duelled about a dozen men, successively. He defeated and skewered every single one.

That wasn't modern competitive fencing. Modern competitive fencing just plain doesn't teach swordsmanship.

Oh, my mistake then.

That's a shame though, really. Swordsmanship is the fun part.

[United Muscovite Nations]

That wasn't modern competitive fencing. Modern competitive fencing just plain doesn't teach swordsmanship.

Oh, my mistake then.

That's a shame though, really. Swordsmanship is the fun part.

HEMA still teaches from techniques used historically from fencing treatises from the Renaissance through Victorian times.

[Camicon]

So... fencing, then.

The use of Shinai, or paintball markers would work as well.

All of which is already legal, has official leagues for competition, and (to my knowledge) hasn't gotten anyone killed.

[Srona Flikinadgedder]

I doubt dueling would prevent anything. I think it would actually increase deaths by a lot.

There's a reason that we do trial by jury rather than trial by combat.

[Camicon]

I doubt dueling would prevent anything. I think it would actually increase deaths by a lot.

There's a reason that we do trial by jury rather than trial by combat.

But what if I know I will get no justice here? What if I want to let the gods decide my fate?

[Ethel mermania]

I doubt dueling would prevent anything. I think it would actually increase deaths by a lot.

There's a reason that we do trial by jury rather than trial by combat.

But what if I know I will get no justice here? What if I want to let the gods decide my fate?

Exactly why we need moose jousting.

[Galloism]

It's canada, you have to make due with the moose at hand.

Oh, no, I'm not questioning the moose, I'm questioning the joust. Jousting is for hoighty-toighty nobles who while away their days at tournaments or court. Us regular folks can't even afford to stable a moose, let alone it's barding. And jousting lances aren't exactly cheap you know.

Capitalism will fill the need. There will be moose rental facilities that keep trained jousting moose for rent, and have lances for purchase. They may even let unshattered lances be returned.

Check the lance return policy.

[Greed and Death]

For young Urban types it would give an alternative outlet for settling disputes as opposed to gang violence.

[Greed and Death]

It's canada, you have to make due with the moose at hand.

Oh, no, I'm not questioning the moose, I'm questioning the joust. Jousting is for hoighty-toighty nobles who while away their days at tournaments or court. Us regular folks can't even afford to stable a moose, let alone it's barding. And jousting lances aren't exactly cheap you know.

I'm going to say no. Dueling, as it was in the past, should remain where it belongs, in the past. The only way I could support dueling is if it was strictly regulated, and non-lethal only.

So... fencing, then.

A low cost alternative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ_CIV6pQ2U

[Ethel mermania]

Oh, no, I'm not questioning the moose, I'm questioning the joust. Jousting is for hoighty-toighty nobles who while away their days at tournaments or court. Us regular folks can't even afford to stable a moose, let alone it's barding. And jousting lances aren't exactly cheap you know.

Capitalism will fill the need. There will be moose rental facilities that keep trained jousting moose for rent, and have lances for purchase. They may even let unshattered lances be returned.
,
Check the lance return policy.

I assume one has to leave a deposit.

[Galloism]

Capitalism will fill the need. There will be moose rental facilities that keep trained jousting moose for rent, and have lances for purchase. They may even let unshattered lances be returned.
,
Check the lance return policy.

I assume one has to leave a deposit.

I bet it's more challenging to land a solid hit hard enough to break the lance in Canada, given the lance, like everything in Canada, would no doubt be completely covered in maple syrup.

[Ethel mermania]

I assume one has to leave a deposit.

I bet it's more challenging to land a solid hit hard enough to break the lance in Canada, given the lance, like everything in Canada, would no doubt be completely covered in maple syrup.

No wonder every moose I have seen has matted hair . Thanks for clearing up that mystery.

[Len Hyet]

Dueling with swords is crass, vulgar, and uncouth. It is entirely beneath the dignity of a gentleman and as such should be entirely barred from the public sphere. Waving around hunks of metal is for blacksmiths not young gentlemen seeking to settle a matter of honor.

Flintlock dueling pistols are clearly the superior method for settling such matters.

[Nexus of All Realities]

So I'm quite new here, but not new to this type of discussions.
Let's discuss something that I was fascinated in ever since listening to Hamilton: The Musical
Duelling: A practice that would prevent more deaths than it causes.
--
So here's a definition of a duel

According to Wikipedia:
A duel is an arranged engagement in combat between two individuals, with matched weapons, in accordance with agreed-upon rules. Duels in this form were chiefly practiced in early modern Europe with precedents in the medieval code of chivalry, and continued into the modern period (19th to early 20th centuries) especially among military officers.

During the 17th and 18th centuries (and earlier), duels were mostly fought with swords (the rapier, and later the smallsword), but beginning in the late 18th century in England, duels were more commonly fought using pistols. Fencing and pistol duels continued to co-exist throughout the 19th century.

The duel was based on a code of honor. Duels were fought not so much to kill the opponent as to gain "satisfaction", that is, to restore one's honor by demonstrating a willingness to risk one's life for it, and as such the tradition of dueling was originally reserved for the male members of nobility; however, in the modern era it extended to those of the upper classes generally. On rare occasions, duels with pistols or swords were fought between women; these were sometimes known as petticoat duels.

--
I believe that the outlawing of duels caused a spike in cold-booded murder in the last centuries. To have a decline in cold-blooded murder, we will need to legalize duelling, as it's less brutal and killing is not even really the whole point of it.

Imagine if duelling was outlawed when Burr was mad at Hamilton. Cold-blooded murder could mean not only killing Alexander, but also potentially hurting/killing Eliza, Philip(he'd be alive but jailed for murdering Eacker), Angelica(their second born), and so on.

SO imagine that, and that is why duelling is certainly a better practice than cold-blooded killing, at at least it is based on a code of honor which is stated in the song "Ten Duel Commandments" included in Hamilton: The Musical (The album is on Spotify, history nerd or not, check it out!)

[MEN]
One, two, three, four

[FULL COMPANY]
Five, six, seven, eight, nine…

[BURR/HAMILTON/LAURENS/LEE]
It’s the Ten Duel Commandments

[FULL COMPANY]
It’s the Ten Duel Commandments
Number one!

[LAURENS]
The challenge: demand satisfaction
If they apologize, no need for further action

[COMPANY]
Number two!

[LAURENS]
If they don’t, grab a friend, that’s your second

[HAMILTON]
Your lieutenant when there’s reckoning to be reckoned

[COMPANY]
Number three!

[LEE]
Have your seconds meet face to face

[BURR]
Negotiate a peace…

[HAMILTON]
Or negotiate a time and place

[BURR]
This is commonplace, ‘specially ‘tween recruits

[COMPANY]
Most disputes die, and no one shoots
Number four!

[LAURENS]
If they don’t reach a peace, that’s alright
Time to get some pistols and a doctor on site

[HAMILTON]
You pay him in advance, you treat him with civility

[BURR]
You have him turn around so he can have deniability

[COMPANY]
Five!

[LEE]
Duel before the sun is in the sky

[COMPANY]
Pick a place to die where it’s high and dry
Number six!

[HAMILTON]
Leave a note for your next of kin
Tell ‘em where you been. Pray that hell or heaven lets you in

[COMPANY]
Seven!

[LEE]
Confess your sins. Ready for the moment
Of adrenaline when you finally face your opponent

[COMPANY]
Number eight!

[LAURENS/LEE/HAMILTON/BURR]
Your last chance to negotiate
Send in your seconds, see if they can set the record straight…

[some hamburr chat about maybe it's a bad idea?(well it's true since many people misunderstand the point of duelling)]

[COMPANY]
Number nine!

[HAMILTON]
Look ‘em in the eye, aim no higher
Summon all the courage you require
Then count

[MEN]
One two three four

[FULL COMPANY]
Five six seven eight nine

[HAMILTON/BURR]
Number

[COMPANY]
Ten paces!

[HAMILTON/BURR]
Fire!

credits: Genius lyrics

What's your opinion, NSG?

Or in the modern day, what used to be called mutual combat.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Dueling with swords is crass, vulgar, and uncouth. It is entirely beneath the dignity of a gentleman and as such should be entirely barred from the public sphere. Waving around hunks of metal is for blacksmiths not young gentlemen seeking to settle a matter of honor.

Flintlock dueling pistols are clearly the superior method for settling such matters.

That's pretty much the opposite of what was historically viewed as true. Swords could only be carried by the nobility within cities. Pretty much any aristocratic duel would have been with swords. Guns were a weapon for commoners.

[Len Hyet]

Dueling with swords is crass, vulgar, and uncouth. It is entirely beneath the dignity of a gentleman and as such should be entirely barred from the public sphere. Waving around hunks of metal is for blacksmiths not young gentlemen seeking to settle a matter of honor.

Flintlock dueling pistols are clearly the superior method for settling such matters.

That's pretty much the opposite of what was historically viewed as true. Swords could only be carried by the nobility within cities. Pretty much any aristocratic duel would have been with swords. Guns were a weapon for commoners.

Historically we were idiots.

My point stands.

[United Muscovite Nations]

That's pretty much the opposite of what was historically viewed as true. Swords could only be carried by the nobility within cities. Pretty much any aristocratic duel would have been with swords. Guns were a weapon for commoners.

Historically we were idiots.

My point stands.

So, tell me, what makes pistols more aristocratic than swords?

[Napoleonic Europa]

Id' only be afraid of this sort of thing appearing, but as long as the duels are voluntary I'd see no issue.