North Korea calls on UN to investigate CIA ‘brutal torture'

[Salus Maior]

I think the accusation should be turned around on the North Koreans. That'd be interesting.

[Soviet Haaregrad]

I think he means the people the CIA used EITs against.

He can't possibly have meant the CIA's victims, since the brutalities they were subjected would be unacceptable treatment even for animals.

You mean it's not acceptable to give protein enemas to livestock?

[Ifreann]

I think the accusation should be turned around on the North Koreans. That'd be interesting.

Presumably the North Koreans would respond as several posters here are, questioning how a country like the US could presume to criticise them for human rights abuses.

[Salus Maior]

I think the accusation should be turned around on the North Koreans. That'd be interesting.

Presumably the North Koreans would respond as several posters here are, questioning how a country like the US could presume to criticise them for human rights abuses.

And the same could be said of them. Ten fold.

[New Chalcedon]

Imperialist goal? Yes what the CIA did is intolerable and abhorrent and so on, but it was in the name of national security since 2001, we were kinda attacked there,

Which does not justify the near-total abrogation of human rights that the USA did to suspected terrorists or extremists (allow me to repeat: suspected terrorists or extremists) and continues to do to this day.

and before that it was the containment of Communism which wasn't exactly a Utopian paradise and they did happen to have the bomb.

And you had it first? Does that justify the Stalin regime's appalling abuses? Of course not. Why should it justify America's? Also, what of the decade inbetween, when you had neither them dirty commies or the brown people with bombs to blame your torture programs on?

When it comes to Iraq... yeah, you got me, we had no reason to be there.

However, the reasons do not excuse their actions in anyway, all I'm saying is that it was not the US's goal to take over the world, just ignore that one admiral from the War of 1812.

And the 2/3 of Mexico that America took by force, and Puerto Rico (one of the last colonial possessions in the world, taken by force from Spain in 1898 and never let go), and the routine abuse of other countries to protect US corporate interests to the exclusion of all else...

...If America stood up, said, "Yeah, we're doing it. Whaddaya gonna' do about it?", I'd actually find less distaste for them in my mouth. You'd be acting like an Empire, and admitting that you were acting like any other Empire. Instead, you sit on your high horses, pretending your shit don't stink, while down here, us non-American plebs just have to put up with the stench of it all.

Being subjected to imperialism by America is bad. Being told that America's not imperialist is worse - the one only does as Empires always do (and always have, and always will - power is used at the discretion of those who hold it), while the other insults our intelligence as well.

Also, maybe we should put the CIA, the agency that basically answers to no one but itself,

Like any other arm of the Executive branch of government, the CIA is answerable to Congress. The fact that Congress has effectively abdicated its oversight responsibilities does not relieve America of sovereign responsibility for the CIA's abuses. Also, I'm fairly sure that everything they did was authorized by US law (the PATRIOT Act, if nothing else), which shifts the responsibility squarely onto the shoulders of the US Government.

on trial, and not the entirety of the United States was not complicit in the torture program. I know I wasn't and I'm fairly certain my family and friends aren't lying to me about their involvement either.

Mmmmhmmmm. So, under normal circumstances, the gubbermint's this big, evil tyrant with its boot-heel firmly on the necks of Good, Honest, Decent Americans everywhere - but now that your country's revealed to have done Bad Things, the gubbermint is you, and going after it is hurting you personally.

Sorry, not buying your crock of shit at the asking price.

[New Chalcedon]

I think the accusation should be turned around on the North Koreans. That'd be interesting.

Presumably the North Koreans would respond as several posters here are, questioning how a country like the US could presume to criticise them for human rights abuses.

Well, it's certainly true that the US no longer occupies the Mt. Everest of the moral ground...not that it ever did, but there's a difference between sea level and below sea level.

[Ifreann]

Presumably the North Koreans would respond as several posters here are, questioning how a country like the US could presume to criticise them for human rights abuses.

And the same could be said of them.

So you can see how the actions of the CIA have damaged the US's ability to credibly denounce human rights violations, as North Korea's abuse of the rights of its people has.

[Harpers Ferry]

Presumably the North Koreans would respond as several posters here are, questioning how a country like the US could presume to criticise them for human rights abuses.

Well, it's certainly true that the US no longer occupies the Mt. Everest of the moral ground...not that it ever did, but there's a difference between sea level and below sea level.

As if it ever did.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

China IS doing far worse.

The Dutch one was very offensive. :/

[Socialist Tera]

The Dutch one was very offensive. :/

Sorry but I am explaining what he did was a fallacy.

[Earl of Sandwich IV]

And the same could be said of them.

So you can see how the actions of the CIA have damaged the US's ability to credibly denounce human rights violations, as North Korea's abuse of the rights of its people has.

Why? Because the CIA did what they had to do to save innocent people from being blown up?

[Herrebrugh]

-snip-

The Dutch one was very offensive. :/

Eh. Jokes are jokes are jokes.

[Ifreann]

Presumably the North Koreans would respond as several posters here are, questioning how a country like the US could presume to criticise them for human rights abuses.

Well, it's certainly true that the US no longer occupies the Mt. Everest of the moral ground...not that it ever did, but there's a difference between sea level and below sea level.

Of course. No one who could be taken seriously is going to suggest that the US is as bad a country as North Korea.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

The Dutch one was very offensive. :/

Eh. Jokes are jokes are jokes.

I hate countryballs, to be honest.

[Herrebrugh]

Eh. Jokes are jokes are jokes.

I hate countryballs, to be honest.

So do I. I've smirked about it once or twice, but it got old just about immediately.

[Harpers Ferry]

So you can see how the actions of the CIA have damaged the US's ability to credibly denounce human rights violations, as North Korea's abuse of the rights of its people has.

Why? Because the CIA did what they had to do to save innocent people from being blown up?

They did not have to resort to treating human beings worse than animals.

[Acharastan]

Pfft. F North Korea AND True Korea. Hypocrite Korea FTW.

[Ifreann]

So you can see how the actions of the CIA have damaged the US's ability to credibly denounce human rights violations, as North Korea's abuse of the rights of its people has.

Why?

You mean "How?", your Lordship.

Because the CIA did what they had to do to save innocent people from being blown up?

In that the CIA tortured people, and lied about it, in violation of US and international law.

[Harpers Ferry]

Pfft. F North Korea AND True Korea. Hypocrite Korea FTW.

And hypocrite US as well, it seems.

[Laanvia]

This is the pot calling the kettle black. Most of the people who were tortured deserved it. North Korea have committed far worse offences, yet they're claiming the moral high ground by calling for investigations. Has anybody noticed that when North Korea is accused of torture, who does something? Yes, a couple of governments may condemn them, but not many. But when the U.S. water boards a couple of terrorists or innocents, the world goes into uproar. The North Korean Kim Jong-Commie Pig should be burned at the stake for all he has done...

[Fortschritte]

This is the pot calling the kettle black. Most of the people who were tortured deserved it. North Korea have committed far worse offences, yet they're claiming the moral high ground by calling for investigations. Has anybody noticed that when North Korea is accused of torture, who does something? Yes, a couple of governments may condemn them, but not many. But when the U.S. water boards a couple of terrorists or innocents, the world goes into uproar. The North Korean Kim Jong-Commie Pig should be burned at the stake for all he has done...

Yes, North Korea has done far worse, and the government of the nation is being laughably hypocritical. But, that doesn't justify the torture the US carried out. Please, explain why the people torture day our government deserve it.

[Sjovenia]

Ironically what North Korea says is true. Torture is torture and thus must be dealt with appropriately

Ironically what North Korea is….is a big hypocrite with a DMZ to the south of it. Both twats for countries are using torture and neither of them are owning up to it or at least not denying it. They just beat around the bush "uh no idea what you mean…"

Also why is this just now a big issue? We've known the CIA has been torturing people since like before 2006

[Need a Name]

"And its imperialist goals."? You kiddin' me? We have done good ol' fashion imperialism since the 19th century.

But to stay on topic.... LOL, North Korea is gonna get made fun of for this. Sure, America has had its fair shake of crimes,but that's like the pot calling the kettle black.

[East Klent]

Imperialist goal? Yes what the CIA did is intolerable and abhorrent and so on, but it was in the name of national security since 2001, we were kinda attacked there,

Which does not justify the near-total abrogation of human rights that the USA did to suspected terrorists or extremists (allow me to repeat: suspected terrorists or extremists) and continues to do to this day.

and before that it was the containment of Communism which wasn't exactly a Utopian paradise and they did happen to have the bomb.

And you had it first? Does that justify the Stalin regime's appalling abuses? Of course not. Why should it justify America's? Also, what of the decade inbetween, when you had neither them dirty commies or the brown people with bombs to blame your torture programs on?

When it comes to Iraq... yeah, you got me, we had no reason to be there.

However, the reasons do not excuse their actions in anyway, all I'm saying is that it was not the US's goal to take over the world, just ignore that one admiral from the War of 1812.

And the 2/3 of Mexico that America took by force, and Puerto Rico (one of the last colonial possessions in the world, taken by force from Spain in 1898 and never let go), and the routine abuse of other countries to protect US corporate interests to the exclusion of all else...

...If America stood up, said, "Yeah, we're doing it. Whaddaya gonna' do about it?", I'd actually find less distaste for them in my mouth. You'd be acting like an Empire, and admitting that you were acting like any other Empire. Instead, you sit on your high horses, pretending your shit don't stink, while down here, us non-American plebs just have to put up with the stench of it all.

Being subjected to imperialism by America is bad. Being told that America's not imperialist is worse - the one only does as Empires always do (and always have, and always will - power is used at the discretion of those who hold it), while the other insults our intelligence as well.

Also, maybe we should put the CIA, the agency that basically answers to no one but itself,

Like any other arm of the Executive branch of government, the CIA is answerable to Congress. The fact that Congress has effectively abdicated its oversight responsibilities does not relieve America of sovereign responsibility for the CIA's abuses. Also, I'm fairly sure that everything they did was authorized by US law (the PATRIOT Act, if nothing else), which shifts the responsibility squarely onto the shoulders of the US Government.

on trial, and not the entirety of the United States was not complicit in the torture program. I know I wasn't and I'm fairly certain my family and friends aren't lying to me about their involvement either.

Mmmmhmmmm. So, under normal circumstances, the gubbermint's this big, evil tyrant with its boot-heel firmly on the necks of Good, Honest, Decent Americans everywhere - but now that your country's revealed to have done Bad Things, the gubbermint is you, and going after it is hurting you personally.

Sorry, not buying your crock of shit at the asking price.

Well then, that's quite the thrashing you gave me. Let me point out the fact that I repeated numerous time that I did not feel that torture was ever justified, I was saying that the Agency's use of it at the time was not for imperialist goals. And as for the West and Puerto Rico, we did stand up and say we were doing it, Manifest Destiny. Not our proudest moment, no (yes, I minimized over a century's worth of atrocities, I'm not going to post a history textbook, so I am unfortunately going to punctuate American history) but that was domination of the Continent, not the world, big difference I know. However, we were acting no different then any other western country at the time, and while by our modern morals the Western empires whose actions were horrid, back then it was perfectly tolerable, thanks to the ability to revise everything;

"The USS Maine exploded, Sir," "Really? Dang, I know, let's say they Spanish did it, that should be good fun."

And then the same thing happened in Vietnam. I never said they were good reasons, all I was doing was explaining the reasons. And no I do in fact understand that attacking the 'gubberment', if that's what we're calling now, is not attacking me, as I stated in another post, I was taking a humurous response to the OP's wording.

I do not condone the actions of the CIA, never have never will, which is only answerable to Congress on paper and in reality every now and again. They are an independent agency that has acted on its own whims numerous times throughout its existence and either didn't inform the proper people of what they were doing or didn't give a damn what they had to say about it, and went about as the bloody well damn pleased. So the CIA could very well be punished on its own if it weren't for the fact that certain higher-up members of the executive branch with gray hair and a lovely Texan accent probably were aware of the torture.

The PATRIOT Acts didn't cover everything that they did, and while I could be wrong, they didn't allow for torture explicitly, again I'm not sure.

I know, so as to maybe not further endanger the men and women serving abroad, as if the un-Islamic extremists needed a reason to attack more, we should put the CIA officers on trial in secret and have judges issue secret warrants slightly but necessarily subverting the Constitu... wait a minute, this sounds familiar...

Confusing rants aside, the CIA is in the wrong and whoever was supposed to keep them in check needs to be thrown away with the lot. Also, the US government has committed horrible acts, acts that in very small, almost insignificant ways they have tried to make up for since. Keep in mind the government during Manifest Destiny is not the government we have now, and the two bare very little resemblance to one another.

Also, 'crock of shit' is a new term for me, mind explaining it good sir?

[Arlenton]

The tables have turned.