Should the UK loosen handgun restrictions?

[Kaztropol]

Yes, yes, yes. The gun ban has been an absolute disaster in Britain, with homicides doubling, and gun murders and firearm offences rising almost twofold in the seven years after the gun ban. Restoring the right to self-defense would improve the freedom of Britons enormously.

homicides doubling
Shows that in 1995, before the handgun ban, there were more homicides than in 2011. What is your explanation here ?

gun murders
Shows that in 1999, after the handgun ban, there were fewer murders with firearms than in 1993, before the ban. What is your explanation ?

firearm offences
Shows more firearms offences in 1993 than in 2011. What is your explanation ?

[Horizont]

It's very difficult for even outlaws to obtain guns here, and I'm thankful for that. Loosen the restrictions and everyone will have guns, and I'd prefer a society where nobody does to one where everybody does by a long shot.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Give me a break. Crime in the US has been cut in half in the past two decades as concealed carry has been legalised across the US. And guess what the violent crime levels are there - 466 per 100,000 people compared to 2,000 in Britain. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

intentional homicide rate:

united states: 4.8 per 100,000
united kingomdm: 1.0 per 100,000

i mean, just sayin

According to the Census Bureau, between 1885 and 1904, the final years of the 'Wild West', the US homicide rate was 1 per 100,000 people. In Somalia, what many see as an anarchic war-zone, the homicide rate is 1 per 100,000 people, the lowest in Africa. In Switzerland, a country that makes it mandatory for every household to own an assault rifle, the homicide rate is the lowest in the world and less than 1 per 100,000 people. I never made the claim that more guns or higher gun freedom equals less crime. But there is not a shred of proof to indicate that gun control reduces crime, and plenty of evidence to suggest that gun control empowers, not curbs, criminals.

And Europe has more mass shootings than America.

at least before you were sort of giving actual numbers

Admittedly, I haven't been able to find a reliable source on this one, but some of the worst mass shootings in the world have occurred in Europe. According to John Lott, a gun rights activist, there are more mass shootings in Europe and this is proof of it, but he clearly has a bias and he has not cited any hard data to support his claims. Nevertheless, it's still notable how many mass shootings have occurred in countries with extremely tough gun laws.

[Alyakia]

switzerland is a bad example because they have guns given to them by the government but they're kinda not allowed to use them unless they get invaded and they really don't like it if you use it otherwise

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Yes, yes, yes. The gun ban has been an absolute disaster in Britain, with homicides doubling, and gun murders and firearm offences rising almost twofold in the seven years after the gun ban. Restoring the right to self-defense would improve the freedom of Britons enormously.

homicides doubling
Shows that in 1995, before the handgun ban, there were more homicides than in 2011. What is your explanation here ?

gun murders
Shows that in 1999, after the handgun ban, there were fewer murders with firearms than in 1993, before the ban. What is your explanation ?

firearm offences
Shows more firearms offences in 1993 than in 2011. What is your explanation ?

I read the data and I recognise that all of those crimes have gone down since 2004. A good explanation would be a reduction in police numbers and sentencing reform since that time, but I'd need to examine more data on the issue. My point was that the gun ban failed to reduce crime, and probably caused enormous increases in it. But I don't have enough data to make a full judgement on it, since there are multiple other factors that could have affected these trends.

[Nimzonia]

It should stay as it is. Why do we want to get the crazy crime levels of the US?

Give me a break. Crime in the US has been cut in half in the past two decades as concealed carry has been legalised across the US. And guess what the violent crime levels are there - 466 per 100,000 people compared to 2,000 in Britain. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Crime in the UK has also been cut in half in the past two decades, and is at its lowest level in over 30 years. In the US, the reported violent crime rate only includes aggravated assault, whereas the figure in Britain includes all trivial 'assualts' like pushing and shoving, slapping, spitting on people, etc, that cause no actual harm. Of course, none of this makes any difference to people who only want numbers to support their preconceived notions, and don't give a shit what the numbers actually represent.

In any case, a significant proportion of the violent crime in the UK has always been drunk people randomly fighting each other on a saturday night, a situation that would hardly be improved by availability of firearms.

[Mefpan]

In Switzerland, a country that makes it mandatory for every household to own an assault rifle, the homicide rate is the lowest in the world and less than 1 per 100,000 people. I never made the claim that more guns or higher gun freedom equals less crime. But there is not a shred of proof to indicate that gun control reduces crime, and plenty of evidence to suggest that gun control empowers, not curbs, criminals.

The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations, however it is not allowed to keep the ammunition.

Here. I'll be all in favor of permitting gun ownership if you can guarantee me that every gun owner receives proper training in handling their weapon(s) with proper care and in accordance with existing safety regulations. Oh, and when they accept certain responsibilities along with owning a gun.

The not keeping ammo at home would also be nice, but eh.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Restoring the right to self-defense would improve the freedom of Britons enormously.

You're a retard, sorry.

I currently have the freedom to go out on a night and not worry about random pissheads carrying a handgun. That's a pretty solid freedom. I'd rather not lose it.

[DarkSith]

As someone living here, I believe they're fine and that they should stay as they are.

As someone who lives here, I think it's fucking stupid that a group of old men in Westminster can tell me whether or not I can defend myself. All firearms need to be immediately legalised and the gun industry deregulated.

I partially agree on your first statement, but strongly disagree with the second.

Some firearms need to stay in possesion of the armed forces (and I exclude the police on that) with strong legal provisions to not be allowed to be used against civilian population no matter the case. No one needs a full-auto military assault rifle. That is by definition an offensive weapon, the "assault" part of the name shows it clearly. You cannot state self defense for having an assault weapon. Same with a shoulder-launched missile. The chances of being attacked by an airplane or a tank are null. So, "all firearms" do not need to be legalised.

I would put less stress on the weapons, and more on the people that can access and use them. We need to make sure that guns do not fall in the wrong hands, not ban weapons outright. A psychotic policeman with a gun is as dangerous as a psychotic, bullied, teenager. Both are a shooting waiting to happen. It's the people, not the guns.

[Gaelic Celtia]

Perhaps they could be loosened just a little bit, if the people want it as such. Maybe a referendum on the matter to get an idea of public opinion?

[Frazers]

Perhaps they could be loosened just a little bit, if the people want it as such. Maybe a referendum on the matter to get an idea of public opinion?

A referendum seems a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut

[Gaelic Celtia]

Perhaps they could be loosened just a little bit, if the people want it as such. Maybe a referendum on the matter to get an idea of public opinion?

A referendum seems a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut

Merely put forth a referendum on should firearm regulations be loosened. Or a survey at the very least.

[The New Age Republic]

no

[Nimzonia]

In Somalia, what many see as an anarchic war-zone, the homicide rate is 1 per 100,000 people, the lowest in Africa.

Good grief, do you honestly believe that accurate crime statistics are coming out of Somalia? How do you think the figures are even collected?

[Applebania]

Bloody hell, no.

[Kaztropol]

No one needs a full-auto military assault rifle. That is by definition an offensive weapon, the "assault" part of the name shows it clearly.

"Assault rifle" is a vague term at best. Some weapons commonly called assault rifles by media, are not called as such by the militaries that use them.

[Imperializt Russia]

Restoring the right to self-defense would improve the freedom of Britons enormously.

You're a retard, sorry.

I currently have the freedom to go out on a night and not worry about random pissheads carrying a handgun. That's a pretty solid freedom. I'd rather not lose it.

Well, it already happens.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

You're a retard, sorry.

I currently have the freedom to go out on a night and not worry about random pissheads carrying a handgun. That's a pretty solid freedom. I'd rather not lose it.

Well, it already happens.

Nothing like to the extent that it probably would if gun ownership was normalised.

I don't need that shit in my life, I don't think anyone else does either. Not when there is no real benefit for it.

[Kouralia]

Some loosening might be nice, however I'm much more thankful that I live in a country where the police aren't armed as standard than I would be by being able to buy a pistol.

It's not really something you notice and i've not even seen a police officer put their hand near their handgun in over 20 years.

It could also have problems with staffing. I mean, the police recruitment numbers are pretty low, IIRC, and if we add in the additional requirement of a high level of competency with a firearm then I imagine some police officers would leave the Police out of a desire to not be armed and some might not be able to fulfil the required level of competency, which could lead to further staffing problems.

[The Archregimancy]

Restoring the right to self-defense would improve the freedom of Britons enormously.

You're a retard, sorry.

I currently have the freedom to go out on a night and not worry about random pissheads carrying a handgun. That's a pretty solid freedom. I'd rather not lose it.

Apologising for an unambiguous flame doesn't make it any less of a flame.

*** Warned for flaming ***, accordingly.

[DarkSith]

In Switzerland, a country that makes it mandatory for every household to own an assault rifle, the homicide rate is the lowest in the world and less than 1 per 100,000 people. I never made the claim that more guns or higher gun freedom equals less crime. But there is not a shred of proof to indicate that gun control reduces crime, and plenty of evidence to suggest that gun control empowers, not curbs, criminals.

The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations, however it is not allowed to keep the ammunition.

Here. I'll be all in favor of permitting gun ownership if you can guarantee me that every gun owner receives proper training in handling their weapon(s) with proper care and in accordance with existing safety regulations. Oh, and when they accept certain responsibilities along with owning a gun.

The not keeping ammo at home would also be nice, but eh.

This. You need to educate people in proper handling of weapons. And by "handling" I mean using, servicing, storing and giving (or not) access other people to your weapons. And make sure people are conscious of the legal consequences that mishandling a weapon can bring to you.

You must be aware of all responsibilities that owning and having a gun entails.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well, it already happens.

Nothing like to the extent that it probably would if gun ownership was normalised.

I don't need that shit in my life, I don't think anyone else does either. Not when there is no real benefit for it.

Carrying a weapon is hilariously illegal. This would not change if handguns restrictions were loosened.
Especially not if the loosening was the inclusion of sporting exception.

[Nimzonia]

Perhaps they could be loosened just a little bit, if the people want it as such. Maybe a referendum on the matter to get an idea of public opinion?

A referendum would only confirm that the public is massively in favour of the ban as it stands. Only a few months ago, national idiot Nigel Farage called for the ban to be lifted, and was roundly criticised by pretty much everyone.

[Fireye]

No one needs a full-auto military assault rifle. That is by definition an offensive weapon, the "assault" part of the name shows it clearly.

"Assault rifle" is a vague term at best. Some weapons commonly called assault rifles by media, are not called as such by the militaries that use them.

Actually: "Assault Rifle" is a very specific term. See here. The rifle must be select-fire (able to choose between full-auto and semi-auto). Most militaries actually use these weapons.

"Assault Weapon," OTOH, is a nebulous term invented by anti-gun individuals for the purpose of banning a class of guns, any class of guns, as a step to a complete ban of guns. The similarity between the terms is intentional, and is supposed to make people think of Military-Grade Assault Rifles (M-16, etc.) when they're really talking about a semi-automatic rifle that looks scary.

[Gaelic Celtia]

Perhaps they could be loosened just a little bit, if the people want it as such. Maybe a referendum on the matter to get an idea of public opinion?

A referendum would only confirm that the public is massively in favour of the ban as it stands. Only a few months ago, national idiot Nigel Farage called for the ban to be lifted, and was roundly criticised by pretty much everyone.

Well then there is the answer, no it should not be lifted.