Farage concerned about GPs poor English

[Ad Nihilo]

1.Pull the other one mate that's absolutely absurd. Are you genuinely arguing that 30% of the population struggle to be understandable to a majority of English speakers? That's a random arbitrary figure and has no basis in fact other than "what you think"; honestly if it was 30% it would be a noticeable problem. Someone who is from the "arse end" of Glasgow is equally as fluent in English as someone speaking RP, just beacuse YOU or anyone else cant understand them means nothing. No not having another language to full back on doesn't make them fluent in English but please don't pretend that a third of English people can't speak English properly. As for suggesting people who don't want a GP who can't speak English are probably people who can't speak English properly what is that based on? Once again nothing but what "you reckon".

Do you understand every single English dialect from Land's End to the Shetlands via Liverpool, Newcastle and Inverness well enough to diagnose somebody?

Also, do you understand more than half of what Mr Nesbitt has to say in that clip? Honestly?

2. Please show me statistics backing up this point. Otherwise it is another baseless assumption?

The NHS wouldn't be keeping statistics on who is to blame for failures of communications because it would both a political and administrative nightmare.

The point I was making is a statistical argument. Foreign doctors or nurses in the NHS would be in the order of thousands or tens of thousands. Patients challenged in the use of the English language would be in the order of millions to tens of millions. In any given Doctor-Patient encounter, who is more likely to be having trouble communicating?

Incidentally, by this argument, native speaking doctors would be just as likely to be running into this problem as foreign born doctors. But so long as everyone is English, no harm done. As soon as someone is foreign born, oh that must certainly be the problem. There obviously cannot be any other explanation for why communication has failed.

3. Yes. If the doctor cannot understand a Scottish accent then they shouldn't be working as a doctor.

See answer 1. How many doctors do you think you'd have left in the NHS if you enforced this?

[Marcurix]

Communication is important, particularly between medical staff and patients. If the language test is not meeting it's objective it need to be revised.

Aye, but as I said, communication is a two way street. And one thing that we know for sure is that the doctors and nurses have passed a test and do have a proven formal standard of aptitude in the English language. The patients have no such proven standard of aptitude. The assumption that it is automatically the foreigners that must be the cause of the failure of communication is unwarranted, and frankly absurd. And that's why Farage's brainfart is nothing more than populist bullshit. As Always.

I agree communication is a too way street, but the issue here is that it appears that a particular street (in this case some medical) is the issue. If this is indeed the case then the language test needs revision. It's not an automatic assumption if there is an issue with foreign born doctors having communication issues despite passing the test.

If the other street is the problem, then we have to revise the education system to correct that. But this is unlikely, given the objective of the language test is to asses the ability to communicate with the general population.

So the first thing we need to do is discover if there is actually an issue. If there is, where does it stem and thus how it can be fixed.

[Sudestland]

It seems to be a reasonable requirement.

[Ad Nihilo]

Aye, but as I said, communication is a two way street. And one thing that we know for sure is that the doctors and nurses have passed a test and do have a proven formal standard of aptitude in the English language. The patients have no such proven standard of aptitude. The assumption that it is automatically the foreigners that must be the cause of the failure of communication is unwarranted, and frankly absurd. And that's why Farage's brainfart is nothing more than populist bullshit. As Always.

I agree with you that the automatic assumption is wrong but I've got to challenge you on one point. As someone who's worked in the NHS as a healthcare assistant I can tell you that English proficiency has been quite a big problem. I've worked shifts with nurses and healthcare assistants from the Philippines whos English skills were genuinely quite limited.

I have someone in my family who works in the NHS as a nurse. They complain about Philippinos as well. And fine, sometimes people's accents can be annoying, but as soon as you run into actual trouble those people do get fired. Because the NHS has a huge bureaucracy to prevent anything that might make it liable to trials. And still, these pesky foreigners seem to not fall foul of all that mountain of regulation. Fancy that.

[Rossstan]

Is this really a genuine concern? Or is this just something Farage is making up to push his agenda? I have my doubts over how much of a problem this really is. If there are tests in place to ensure those who work in the NHS can speak English well enough to do their job, then this shouldn't be a problem. If there are staff who can't speak it well enough, then it's just a matter of raising the standards of the test. I don't see how it can really be used as a reason to promote what he considers 'proper immigration'.

[Greater-London]

1. Do you understand every single English dialect from Land's End to the Shetlands via Liverpool, Newcastle and Inverness well enough to diagnose somebody? Also, do you understand more than half of what Mr Nesbitt has to say in that clip? Honestly?

2. The NHS wouldn't be keeping statistics on who is to blame for failures of communications because it would both a political and administrative nightmare. The point I was making is a statistical argument. Foreign doctors or nurses in the NHS would be in the order of thousands or tens of thousands. Patients challenged in the use of the English language would be in the order of millions to tens of millions. In any given Doctor-Patient encounter, who is more likely to be having trouble communicating? Incidentally, by this argument, native speaking doctors would be just as likely to be running into this problem as foreign born doctors. But so long as everyone is English, no harm done. As soon as someone is foreign born, oh that must certainly be the problem. There obviously cannot be any other explanation for why communication has failed.

3) How many doctors do you think you'd have left in the NHS if you enforced this?

1. In all honesty I think I could and I think most people could both native and non native English speakers. Sure some accents are harder than others but not many people have unintelligible accents. In that clip not very much but then hes drunk with an axe in his head; I don't find Mr Nesbitts accent difficult in the show.

2. This demonstrates the problem with statistics. The only reason why its statistically more likely is because British people who have the potential to be sick outnumber foreign doctors. I'm not arguing if theirs a failure of communication its always the fault of a foreign doctor (I don't think anyone is) but I'm saying it can be a factor and its something that should be resolved. Incidentally even if you where right and 30% of English people aren't fluent in English this doesn't absolve a foreign doctor of responsibility if they struggle with English as well. I would also aruge (perhaps wrongly) that its probably easier for someone who has English as their first language to understand a thick regional accent. A friend of mine from Pakistan struggles with another guy in our group of friends with an Irish accent for instance.

3) Not a huge ammount because not many people actually speak like that. It's also worth noting that in a hospital in Glasgow your more likely to have someone who understands that sort of accent better than your or I.

[Greater-London]

I have someone in my family who works in the NHS as a nurse. They complain about Philippinos as well. And fine, sometimes people's accents can be annoying, but as soon as you run into actual trouble those people do get fired. Because the NHS has a huge bureaucracy to prevent anything that might make it liable to trials. And still, these pesky foreigners seem to not fall foul of all that mountain of regulation. Fancy that.

It's not an accent though its a genuine struggle with the language. Some of them didn't understand me and I speak RP with the slightest twang of East Anglia. It's not about hating on foreign people or blaming immigrants its about setting a certain standard which some people don't meet.

When I was at work we had lots of foreign workers on the ward. Plenty of times I was the only person who was born in the UK; this wasn't a problem as 9 times out 10 everyone was fluent in English and it didn't prevent them doing their jobs.I reiterate this isn't about who's foreign or not its about standards that everyone should meet.

[Greater-London]

Is this really a genuine concern? Or is this just something Farage is making up to push his agenda? I have my doubts over how much of a problem this really is. If there are tests in place to ensure those who work in the NHS can speak English well enough to do their job, then this shouldn't be a problem. If there are staff who can't speak it well enough, then it's just a matter of raising the standards of the test. I don't see how it can really be used as a reason to promote what he considers 'proper immigration'.

I don't think its a huge problem but that doesn't mean its a bad idea. It is just a matter of raising the standards of the test to a much higher level than it is currently (which is what Farage is suggesting). It's not being used a promotion of a certain type of immigrant or even anti immigrant.

[Ad Nihilo]

1. In all honesty I think I could and I think most people could both native and non native English speakers. Sure some accents are harder than others but not many people have unintelligible accents. In that clip not very much but then hes drunk with an axe in his head; I don't find Mr Nesbitts accent difficult in the show.

[...]

It's not an accent though its a genuine struggle with the language. Some of them didn't understand me and I speak RP with the slightest twang of East Anglia. It's not about hating on foreign people or blaming immigrants its about setting a certain standard which some people don't meet.

When I was at work we had lots of foreign workers on the ward. Plenty of times I was the only person who was born in the UK; this wasn't a problem as 9 times out 10 everyone was fluent in English and it didn't prevent them doing their jobs.I reiterate this isn't about who's foreign or not its about standards that everyone should meet.

I remain sceptical. And accent is just one of the issues. In fact, it is one of the lesser issues when it comes to fluency in English.

Much more of an issue is if you as a doctor need to diagnose somebody, and they don't have the command of the language to help you out. For example:

Doctor: "What seems to be the problem today, Mr Smith?"
Patient: "I gots me some pain in me chest, innit?"
Doctor: "What kind of pain?"
Patient: "Don facking kno what kind a pain. It 'urts. Do summin 'bout it, ya?"

This is more the kind of issue I had in mind. And the Nesbitt clip illustrates it just as well.

2. This demonstrates the problem with statistics. The only reason why its statistically more likely is because British people who have the potential to be sick outnumber foreign doctors. I'm not arguing if theirs a failure of communication its always the fault of a foreign doctor (I don't think anyone is) but I'm saying it can be a factor and its something that should be resolved. Incidentally even if you where right and 30% of English people aren't fluent in English this doesn't absolve a foreign doctor of responsibility if they struggle with English as well. I would also aruge (perhaps wrongly) that its probably easier for someone who has English as their first language to understand a thick regional accent. A friend of mine from Pakistan struggles with another guy in our group of friends with an Irish accent for instance.

First question: Is this actually a huge problem in the NHS?
Second qestion: Doctor being too foreign to understand English is a potential problem. Is it the actual problem?
First observation: If this is an actual problem in the NHS, what is the likelihood that it is something to do with foreign doctors? My observation is that it is much more likely to be a problem with the patients. That's not "a problem with statistics". It's using probabilities to draw eh... probable conclusions?
Second observation: Does Mr Farage have any reason beyond an ever noble search for truth and justice to suggest that the foreign doctors are to blame? Obviously.

Conclusion: Farage is flinging shit hoping some will stick. As always.

3) Not a huge ammount because not many people actually speak like that. It's also worth noting that in a hospital in Glasgow your more likely to have someone who understands that sort of accent better than your or I.

Right. And Farage must know this. So does he actually mean what he says?

And if not, why are will all sitting around in a circle going

Yes, Farage speaks for the man in the street. Finally, someone who speaks the man in the street's mind. Isn't he a hero of the people? Okay, fine, but he's still a compulsive liar on par with any other mainstream politician, and a far less well developed sense of decorum. Also, he's talking bollocks. Just so we're clear.

[Ad Nihilo]

Is this really a genuine concern? Or is this just something Farage is making up to push his agenda? I have my doubts over how much of a problem this really is. If there are tests in place to ensure those who work in the NHS can speak English well enough to do their job, then this shouldn't be a problem. If there are staff who can't speak it well enough, then it's just a matter of raising the standards of the test. I don't see how it can really be used as a reason to promote what he considers 'proper immigration'.

I don't think its a huge problem but that doesn't mean its a bad idea. It is just a matter of raising the standards of the test to a much higher level than it is currently (which is what Farage is suggesting). It's not being used a promotion of a certain type of immigrant or even anti immigrant.

As per above, if you "raise the standard much higher" to the point where the UKIP voter would be satisfied, i.e. when doctors would no longer have recognisably foreign accents, them the NHS would no longer have enough people to be sustainable.

Now assuming that Farage's latest position on the NHS is something he actually believes - apparently he now the NHS after years of saying it should be privatised - he must also know this, and cannot seriously mean what he says, and cannot possibly expect to have to implement it.

In which case, why would he say it? Because "some people" don't like foreign accents. And if as a politician you don't like them either, then you're a cool guy, speaking for the man in the street. And you'll get votes. Which is why it is perfectly reasonable to lambaste this "sensible" proposition.

[Geilinor]

I can't comment on the truth of Farage's claims because I've never experienced British doctors. Knowing him, he must be exaggerating a little bit.

[Vissegaard]

I'd say he isn't William Shakespeare either, so basically, go to hell, Farage.

[Greater-London]

1. I remain sceptical. And accent is just one of the issues. In fact, it is one of the lesser issues when it comes to fluency in English. Much more of an issue is if you as a doctor need to diagnose somebody, and they don't have the command of the language to help you out. For example:

Doctor: "What seems to be the problem today, Mr Smith?"
Patient: "I gots me some pain in me chest, innit?"
Doctor: "What kind of pain?"
Patient: "Don facking kno what kind a pain. It 'urts. Do summin 'bout it, ya?"

This is more the kind of issue I had in mind. And the Nesbitt clip illustrates it just as well.

2. First question: Is this actually a huge problem in the NHS?
Second qestion: Doctor being too foreign to understand English is a potential problem. Is it the actual problem?
First observation: If this is an actual problem in the NHS, what is the likelihood that it is something to do with foreign doctors? My observation is that it is much more likely to be a problem with the patients. That's not "a problem with statistics". It's using probabilities to draw eh... probable conclusions?
Second observation: Does Mr Farage have any reason beyond an ever noble search for truth and justice to suggest that the foreign doctors are to blame? Obviously.

Conclusion: Farage is flinging shit hoping some will stick. As always.

3) Not a huge ammount because not many people actually speak like that. It's also worth noting that in a hospital in Glasgow your more likely to have someone who understands that sort of accent better than your or I.

Right. And Farage must know this. So does he actually mean what he says?

And if not, why are will all sitting around in a circle going

Yes, Farage speaks for the man in the street. Finally, someone who speaks the man in the street's mind. Isn't he a hero of the people? Okay, fine, but he's still a compulsive liar on par with any other mainstream politician, and a far less well developed sense of decorum. Also, he's talking bollocks. Just so we're clear.

1. Feel free to be skeptical - Most peoples accents are not impenetrable and are easy to understand. As for your second point, that may be some people. Is it many people? is it as you suggested earlier 30% of the population? the answer is no. I would argue in that situation its the job of the doctor to still find out whats wrong with the patient. You make the point of communication being a two way street (I agree) but the doctor has the responsibility of finding out what an inarticulate patient may need, its their job, its what their paid to do. In short its a two way street but the doctor has a more important role to play. Also we can control the English fluency of GP's better than that of patients its an easier and a short term fix

2. First question: Not a huge problem it is still a problem. I've seen medical staff unable to understand patients and unable to explain to patients what they are doing and why. Do I think its always a disaster? no. Do I think its on a huge scale? no. Do I think the standards of English proficiency should be higher to work in the NHS? a big fat yes.

Second question: Nobody says you can be "too foreign" to understand English. There is the potential for there to be a problem if someone doesn't speak English. I wouldn't go as far to say its "the problem" but its still "A problem" and if not (which it is) has the potential to be.

First observation response: It is an issue in the NHS and it has the potential to become more of a problem as lots of our nursing staff come from overseas. Foreign doctors are not part of the reason why, foreign doctors who cant speak English are the reason why; this isn't an attack on foreign doctors its an attack on poor standards of English. You say its more likely to be a problem with the patients (it may be) but you give no actual reasons why other than "there are more sick English people than foreign doctors".

Second observation response: Of course he does. He gains electorally from people being skeptical about immigration. That doesn't mean that saying that we should ensure doctors are fluent in English is wrong. OR that people who think that doctors should be fluent in English have problems with immigrants.

Conclusion: This isn't an attack on foreign doctors in on standards of English for healthcare workers. Its a populist idea and UKIP are a populist party but that doesn't mean it isn't a fair point.

3. I don't know if he means what he says I don't know what the man thinks. I don't understand why hes popular either. He's a frequent bollocks smith that doesn't mean everything he says is bollocks. A broken clock is right twice a day.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

Fair point. And I don't really see the existence of an English language test as a strong counterpoint. If the test exists and people are still complaining about unintelligible GPs, then perhaps it's ineffective.

[Greater-London]

Fair point. And I don't really see the existence of an English language test as a strong counterpoint. If the test exists and people are still complaining about unintelligible GPs, then perhaps it's ineffective.

It is. You have to do a basic English and Maths test to be medical staff in the NHS. My Maths test included questions like telling them time, and reading numbers of graphs, saying how many ml's of liquid where in a test tube. The English test was things like "circle the noun in this sentence" and how to set out a letter. The test needs to be harder.

[Ad Nihilo]

SNIP

Okay, one last question. If this is a problem, of any scale at all, why is it necessary for him to introduce the issue with "some people out there are talking about..."?

Here's a theory: because if he said "I think..." he would, under English law, be prosecutable for libel. On the grounds that I have enumerated above.

Mr Farage cannot be right, whether by design or accident, because he is not expressing an opinion on the state of the NHS. He is verbalising the prejudices of his electoral base. This is what he always does. He "understands the voter". I don't know what he thinks of the NHS, and nor do you. I doubt he knows what he thinks about the NHS. He probably doesn't give a flying fuck either way, because the main thing he cares about is the EU, and whether he can smoke in pubs.

So no, Farage doesn't "have a point". He's flinging shit and stirring up prejudice, and legitimises xenophobia under the guise of "economic arguments" and "common sense". Saying Farage has a point is like saying an internet troll has a point. In both cases communication of something truthful is not even an incidental aim of the shit that they say.

[Olivaero]

I have several problems with his statement, I have no problem though with the sentiment that GP's should speak the BBC accent because it has wider exposure than any other British accent.
For all my problems with his statement feel free to read the spoiler.

Nigel Farage has claimed there is a problem with foreign GPs not speaking good English despite all NHS doctors having to pass a language test

This of course implies that it's only foriegn GP's who have impenetrable accents or that second generation immigrants that have foreign sounding accents aren't British.

The Ukip leader claimed that "people out there are talking about" GPs not speaking good enough English but the NHS careers website clearly states that registered doctors must pass a test under the International English Language Testing System.

Well I'm sure they are now.

Farage made his claim as he defended Ukip's policy to stop people who do not speak good English from working in the NHS.

The quality of English it behooves GP's to speak and say other types of medical staff who don't need top notch communications skills is pretty large. So if this more stringent policy is NHS wide like he suggests I'd suggest it's needlessly discriminatory and unsurprisingly has other motivations than clarity of communication.

Nigel Farage claims "people out there are talking about" GPs who can't speak English well

Once again nigel good job for making a statement that makes it's self true by you talking to a big media outlet by uttering it.

He told Sky News's Murnaghan programme: "Don't we want to live in a country where we speak the same language?

Accented English is now another language people, looks like 'ello 'ello was right all along!

"And isn't it scandalous that we are not training enough nurses and doctors in our own country?

I'm sure you'd make funding higher education a top priority so that we have more doctors or nurses wouldn't you Nigel?

"I don't know about you, whether you've ever been to a GP that didn't speak very good English, and it's something that people out there are talking about.

Amazing! the more you repeat it the more true it gets!

"The whole point about immigration, whether it impacts on the health service or elsewhere, is that we have to have proper integration."

That isn't the point of immigration. That's your point of immigration the whole point about imagination is people moving from one place to another, pretty straight forward really.

Farage said people who do not speak English should not be employed in the NHS but refused to commit to sacking those already working in the service.

Asked whether he would sack non-English speakers in the NHS, the Ukip leader said: "If people don't speak English and they are dealing with English-speaking patients then surely they shouldn't be employed in the first place."

Well spot on Nigel that was a silly question reporter person, or it would be had you not inferred that people who are against this approach are against a country where we all speak the same language earlier thus inferring that people with accented english don't speak english. So maybe don't hint silly things then you wont get silly questions

The NHS careers website which sets out the requirements for foreign doctors working in the health service clearly states that they must demonstrate a command of the English language before registering with the General Medical Council (GMC).

The website states: "Applicants who register with the GMC must also demonstrate competence in the English language by achieving a specific mark in the International English Language Testing System (IELTS)."

Almost makes it seem like this has already been attempted to be rectified!

GPs who don't speak English well shouldn't work for the health service, the Ukip leader said

Well maybe they should work for the health Service in areas where their dialect is more common but if thats not an option then here we actually agree.

Farage also said Ukip would set out policies for saving money within the NHS, suggesting that middle management staff could be cut.

But he acknowledged that overall health spending would have to rise to deal with Britain's ageing population.

Asked whether there is scope for savings within the NHS, Mr Farage said: "Without any shadow of a doubt there is, although overall health spending is going to go up over the next few years because our population is rising so rapidly.

"So there's no way around that - this is going to be costing us more money in a few years' time than it is now. That doesn't mean that it can't be more efficient.

"The savings are clear, aren't they, in the sense that the growth of middle management staff in the NHS since 1997, it's gone up by 48%.

"Don't tell me there aren't efficiencies that can't be made, there are."

Ah yes cutting down on waste. God damn all those other other governments who actively advocate waste! Why has no one thought of this before?! lets just cut out all this waste that's been generated! I'm sure Nigel Farage who has lot's of experience in running a national health service knows all about this and totally isn't pulling this shit straight out of his arse! All praise mighty UKIP slayer of the money sucking waste demon!

TL;DR As usual I ain't buying what Farage is selling also given a more than cursory glance it's obviously not very substantial.

[Atletius]

Yet more Farage nonsense. Wonderful. Never once had a problem with understanding my GP.

[Greater-London]

Okay, one last question. If this is a problem, of any scale at all, why is it necessary for him to introduce the issue with "some people out there are talking about..."?

Here's a theory: because if he said "I think..." he would, under English law, be prosecutable for libel. On the grounds that I have enumerated above.

Mr Farage cannot be right, whether by design or accident, because he is not expressing an opinion on the state of the NHS. He is verbalising the prejudices of his electoral base. This is what he always does. He "understands the voter". I don't know what he thinks of the NHS, and nor do you. I doubt he knows what he thinks about the NHS. He probably doesn't give a flying fuck either way, because the main thing he cares about is the EU, and whether he can smoke in pubs.

So no, Farage doesn't "have a point". He's flinging shit and stirring up prejudice, and legitimises xenophobia under the guise of "economic arguments" and "common sense". Saying Farage has a point is like saying an internet troll has a point. In both cases communication of something truthful is not even an incidental aim of the shit that they say.

Why not? "some people are talking about" is a completely legitimate way of starting a discussion on anything. I don't think that is remotely an issue here. Would he be prosecutable for libel? "I think there's a problem" doesn't sound like anything libelous to me - admittedly I'm not well versed in law.

I'm not going to defend Nigel Farage, I'm not going to pretend to understand anything his party really stands for other than the two things you listed above. He can however be right and to say otherwise is just ridiculous just because he's so often an arse doesn't mean he can't on occasion raise a legitimate issue - albeit one that isn't at the top of the nations "to do" list.

I'm not saying Farage or UKIP have a point. I'm saying the idea that there should be higher standards of English proficiency in the NHS is a sound assessment for the reasons I've listed above. His aim might be something else but that doesn't mean its not something that can be dealt with? In no way does agreeing with this point legitimize xenophobia or prejudice and if you do think that then your being silly.

It's so often the case that people for some perverse reason want Nigel and UKIP to be more right wing than they actually are.

[Greater-London]

Yet more Farage nonsense. Wonderful. Never once had a problem with understanding my GP.

That doesn't really mean anything. I've never used a foodbank, does that mean foodbank use isn't up?

[Atletius]

Yet more Farage nonsense. Wonderful. Never once had a problem with understanding my GP.

That doesn't really mean anything. I've never used a foodbank, does that mean foodbank use isn't up?

Yes I know that, a personal anecdote all it was, but as you'll likely see from this. Very few people have had thst problem. All this is another ukip attempt to divide.

Nonsensical fear-mongering,

[Fartsniffage]

That doesn't really mean anything. I've never used a foodbank, does that mean foodbank use isn't up?

Yes I know that, a personal anecdote all it was, but as you'll likely see from this. Very few people have had thst problem. All this is another ukip attempt to divide.

Nonsensical fear-mongering,

I don't think it is. I've never had an issue with a GP, but I have had an issue with doctors in a hospital. After admission for emergency surgery, the admitting doctor thought I took heroin and post-surgery, I couldn't understand what the consultant surgeon was telling me. I had to have it translated by the one of the small gaggle of doctors following him.

Again, an anecdote, but I'm far from the only one in my family who has had problems understanding what they're being told by doctors.

[Greater-London]

Yes I know that, a personal anecdote all it was, but as you'll likely see from this. Very few people have had thst problem. All this is another ukip attempt to divide.

Nonsensical fear-mongering,

Except it has been an issue for lots of people. There are lots of people in the NHS who don't have English as their first language; these workers fill the shortages of nurses and healthcare assistants we've had int he past and most of them are fluent in English and are good at their jobs. There are however numerous instances to my mind (and I'm sure many others) where a member of staff has struggled with English and this has affected patient well being, slowed down a job or caused a breakdown in communication. This is something that should be addressed as the English and Maths test for health workers is very simple (I'm unsure of doctors do a separate one) and this has thrown up problems for plenty of people.

[Atletius]

Yes I know that, a personal anecdote all it was, but as you'll likely see from this. Very few people have had thst problem. All this is another ukip attempt to divide.

Nonsensical fear-mongering,

I don't think it is. I've never had an issue with a GP, but I have had an issue with doctors in a hospital. After admission for emergency surgery, the admitting doctor thought I took heroin and post-surgery, I couldn't understand what the consultant surgeon was telling me. I had to have it translated by the one of the small gaggle of doctors following him.

Again, an anecdote, but I'm far from the only one in my family who has had problems understanding what they're being told by doctors.

No doubt cases occur, I don't think anyone can deny that. Accents are notoriously fickle things. But I seriously doubt it's a systemic problem. A minor one perhaps, but not one that should be turned into a political football used to bash immigration.

And who knows, maybe you did take the heroin? Can we really trust your judgement, eh?

[Greater-London]

No doubt cases occur, I don't think anyone can deny that. Accents are notoriously fickle things. But I seriously doubt it's a systemic problem. A minor one perhaps, but not one that should be turned into a political football used to bash immigration.

And who knows, maybe you did take the heroin? Can we really trust your judgement, eh?

Just because its not a systemic problem doesn't mean its not a problem. You don't just have to tackle huge issues there are some smaller ones that are a really pain the behind - which also happen to be easy to resolve. Also this isn't actually bashing immigrants its making the point that NHS workers should have a certain standard of English, preferably fluent.