Hypocritical fallacy of male feminists

[Vazdania]

No...No....I'm a male feminist, I believe women should be given the same rights oppertunities and all that fun stuff as men.
They should be allowed to do the same sports, same everything because their are plenty of women who can DO more than men. For example Hillary Clinton is a much better Democrat than Barack Obama (in my opinion).


On the metaphysical flip side They should have to register for the draft as well, its only fair.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Well you are apparently expressing yourself very badly.

Not really, it's just this thread's repliers seem to have been struck with the 'lack of common sense' stick, of working things out FOR THEMSELVES without having to specifically be told everything (maybe there's a correlation there with male feminism, who knows, I should look into that).

But my bad, I guess I over estimated people.

But I've edited my OP now, with additional notation for those who appear to be struggling with the premise. Give me a holla if you need any more help.

>OP says, "The source says is that no one has the right to tell someone what is or isn't properly feminist."
>OP tries to tell us what is properly feminist.

[Death Metal]

Oh, and if you met some of the women I have, you would know that a beard is not an indicator of gender.

Well, if you want to get into that, neither is a penis.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

No...No....I'm a male feminist, I believe women should be given the same rights oppertunities and all that fun stuff as men.
They should be allowed to do the same sports, same everything because their are plenty of women who can DO more than men. For example Hillary Clinton is a much better Democrat than Barack Obama (in my opinion).


On the metaphysical flip side They should have to register for the draft as well, its only fair.

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

[Minarchist Territory of Pineland]

Not really, it's just this thread's repliers seem to have been struck with the 'lack of common sense' stick, of working things out FOR THEMSELVES without having to specifically be told everything (maybe there's a correlation there with male feminism, who knows, I should look into that).

But my bad, I guess I over estimated people.

But I've edited my OP now, with additional notation for those who appear to be struggling with the premise. Give me a holla if you need any more help.

>OP says, "The source says is that no one has the right to tell someone what is or isn't properly feminist."
>OP tries to tell us what is properly feminist.

Not really, I don't really care what people do. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of those that choose to LABEL themselves as male feminists. Woman themselves, if they do adhere to feminism, can do whatever the hell they like. It's the least of my concern, it's not what this thread is about at all (it seems people are struggling to understand that).

I have no merit talking about the doctrine itself, because a man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not.

Because as we all know, or at least should, what you call yourself, and what you actually practice, are two different things entirely.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

>OP says, "The source says is that no one has the right to tell someone what is or isn't properly feminist."
>OP tries to tell us what is properly feminist.

Not really, I don't really care what people do. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of those that choose to LABEL themselves as male feminists. Woman themselves, if they do adhere to feminism, can do whatever the hell they like. It's the least of my concern, it's not what this thread is about at all (it seems people are struggling to understand that).

I have no merit talking about the doctrine itself, because a man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not.

Because as we all know, or at least should, what you call yourself, and what you actually practice, are two different things entirely.

Yeah, I still have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

[Vazdania]

No...No....I'm a male feminist, I believe women should be given the same rights oppertunities and all that fun stuff as men.
They should be allowed to do the same sports, same everything because their are plenty of women who can DO more than men. For example Hillary Clinton is a much better Democrat than Barack Obama (in my opinion).


On the metaphysical flip side They should have to register for the draft as well, its only fair.

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

somebody who gets the 13 Amendment!!!

[Minarchist Territory of Pineland]

Not really, I don't really care what people do. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of those that choose to LABEL themselves as male feminists. Woman themselves, if they do adhere to feminism, can do whatever the hell they like. It's the least of my concern, it's not what this thread is about at all (it seems people are struggling to understand that).

I have no merit talking about the doctrine itself, because a man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not.

Because as we all know, or at least should, what you call yourself, and what you actually practice, are two different things entirely.

Yeah, I still have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Sigh, I'll try and break it down then.

1) Men don’t have any credibility in speaking on behalf of woman, who should decide things on their own.

2) A man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not doing such, will not do such, and do not call myself a male feminist, but I support woman empowering themselves however they choose. No amount of self labeling myself 'male feminist' comes into whatever they decide.

If you can't get this. Then I can't get through to you. Enjoy your fallacy.

[Death Metal]

No...No....I'm a male feminist, I believe women should be given the same rights oppertunities and all that fun stuff as men.
They should be allowed to do the same sports, same everything because their are plenty of women who can DO more than men. For example Hillary Clinton is a much better Democrat than Barack Obama (in my opinion).


On the metaphysical flip side They should have to register for the draft as well, its only fair.

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

Women should be allowed to volunteer for combat if they wish to IMO though.

...Also, I'd love to see the gender barrier disappear in sports.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that letting women play on men sports teams is the best chance the USMNT has of getting to knockout stage of World Cup 2014. No, nothing at all to do with that, or how much better the USWNT is.

[Cannot think of a name]

Not really, I don't really care what people do. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of those that choose to LABEL themselves as male feminists. Woman themselves, if they do adhere to feminism, can do whatever the hell they like. It's the least of my concern, it's not what this thread is about at all (it seems people are struggling to understand that).

I have no merit talking about the doctrine itself, because a man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not.

Because as we all know, or at least should, what you call yourself, and what you actually practice, are two different things entirely.

Yeah, I still have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

He's developed a pill that gives worms to ex-girlfriends. Clearly, we just don't get it.

[Vazdania]

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

Women should be allowed to volunteer for combat if they wish to IMO though.

...Also, I'd love to see the gender barrier disappear in sports.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that letting women play on men sports teams is the best chance the USMNT has of getting to knockout stage of World Cup 2014. No, nothing at all to do with that.

so reverse sexism???? ;O if only men should have to register than thats pretty sexist!

[Death Metal]

Women should be allowed to volunteer for combat if they wish to IMO though.

...Also, I'd love to see the gender barrier disappear in sports.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that letting women play on men sports teams is the best chance the USMNT has of getting to knockout stage of World Cup 2014. No, nothing at all to do with that.

so reverse sexism???? ;O if only men should have to register than thats pretty sexist!

Nah, I'm just agreeing that neither should HAVE to register. The draft is an outdated notion.

[Vazdania]

>OP says, "The source says is that no one has the right to tell someone what is or isn't properly feminist."
>OP tries to tell us what is properly feminist.

Not really, I don't really care what people do. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of those that choose to LABEL themselves as male feminists. Woman themselves, if they do adhere to feminism, can do whatever the hell they like. It's the least of my concern, it's not what this thread is about at all (it seems people are struggling to understand that).

I have no merit talking about the doctrine itself, because a man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not.

Because as we all know, or at least should, what you call yourself, and what you actually practice, are two different things entirely.

I disagree, we dont share the same genitalia, nor do we "think" the same, but in all actuality men can percieve the struggle of women, in fact thier were many men who paraded and marched with women for the 19th Amendment.

[Vazdania]

so reverse sexism???? ;O if only men should have to register than thats pretty sexist!

Nah, I'm just agreeing that neither should HAVE to register. The draft is an outdated notion.

someone else who understands!!

[Raeyh]

No...No....I'm a male feminist, I believe women should be given the same rights oppertunities and all that fun stuff as men.
They should be allowed to do the same sports, same everything because their are plenty of women who can DO more than men. For example Hillary Clinton is a much better Democrat than Barack Obama (in my opinion).


On the metaphysical flip side They should have to register for the draft as well, its only fair.

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

Let's be realistic, that's never going to happen. It would be easier to have women be forced to take part in the draft then have the government decide to leave itself defenseless and unmanned during a major war.

[Minarchist Territory of Pineland]

What it says is that no one has the right to tell someone what is or isn't properly feminist.

And I'm following on from that AS A REPLY, that male feminists do that.

Is NSG having an intelligence problem? Do I need to write on my OP with big orange crayon, to compensate for common sense?

No, you just have to make it without such an obvious pretzel. Look at the two sentences back to back here, man...

What it says is that no one has the right to tell someone what is or isn't properly feminist.

And I'm following on from that AS A REPLY, that male feminists do that.

No one should tell someone what is properly feminist, and then you scold 'male feminists' for not being feminist.

If you've wrapped your head around that little conundrum, you haven't successfully unpacked it for the rest of us.

I see what you tried to do here, but I feel the need to address something very important.

1) I have never referred to MYSELF SPECIFICALLY as a male feminist, therefore I do not make any assumptions on my scale of 'feminist-ility'

2) I have never said male feminists are, or are not true feminists. I simply said that male feminism is a fallacy, and that male feminists can be more patriarchal than non male feminists.

[Saint Jade IV]

The source isn't saying that. At all.

I never said it did, I'm saying it's a foundation FOR my source.

What it says is that no one has the right to tell someone what is or isn't properly feminist.

And I'm following on from that AS A REPLY, that male feminists do that.

Some male feminists do that. Not all of them. You're falling into the very trap you accuse others of.

Is NSG having an intelligence problem? Do I need to write on my OP with big orange crayon, to compensate for common sense?

No. But perhaps you are. Most people have pointed out to you that you are being the hypocrite. Yet you seem unable to comprehend that.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

somebody who gets the 13 Amendment!!!

Never thought about it like that, but yes! I was just thinking more along the lines of, it's your human right to not be dead for your country.

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

Women should be allowed to volunteer for combat if they wish to IMO though.

...Also, I'd love to see the gender barrier disappear in sports.

And that has nothing to do with the fact that letting women play on men sports teams is the best chance the USMNT has of getting to knockout stage of World Cup 2014. No, nothing at all to do with that.

Yes, everyone should be allowed into the military. Frontlines or desk, it should be open to all.
(though I would love to see a world where we need no military because we all realize that, um, maybe if we stopped acting like douchebags and instead acted like adults then we don't need a military.)

Yeah, I still have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Sigh, I'll try and break it down then.

1) Men don’t have any credibility in helping woman who should decide things on their own.

2) A man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not doing such, will not do such, and do not call myself a male feminist, but I support woman empowering themselves however they choose.

If you can't get this. Then I can't get through to you.

1. Yes, women should make their own decisions. However, men can BACK THE WOMEN UP and support her decisions and support her efforts.
2. Men can have empathy, but again, feminism isn't just about the struggles of women, feminism is about equality for everyone of every sex and every gender. Men's struggles and women's struggles are both real and significant. Men can be feminist in the same way that men can be fathers of a planned pregnancy. They don't have to understand the different emotions the mother goes through, they don't have to feel the pregnancy, they don't have to go through the labor. But they can be there, they can have their own struggles, he can support her, and she can support him. And then they can love the product together.

Male feminists are a good thing.

[Vazdania]

On the way better flipside, NO ONE should have to register for the draft, because no one should be forced into a war.

Let's be realistic, that's never going to happen. It would be easier to have women be forced to take part in the draft then have the government decide to leave itself defenseless and unmanned during a major war.

YOU GET A SAD FACE! YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION ---> YOUR SAD FACE-----> ):

[Minarchist Territory of Pineland]

Not really, I don't really care what people do. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of those that choose to LABEL themselves as male feminists. Woman themselves, if they do adhere to feminism, can do whatever the hell they like. It's the least of my concern, it's not what this thread is about at all (it seems people are struggling to understand that).

I have no merit talking about the doctrine itself, because a man cannot perceive a woman's struggle. Therefore, I am not.

Because as we all know, or at least should, what you call yourself, and what you actually practice, are two different things entirely.

I disagree, we dont share the same genitalia, nor do we "think" the same, but in all actuality men can percieve the struggle of women, in fact thier were many men who paraded and marched with women for the 19th Amendment.

Men can perceive woman struggle in the third person (or second person), yes. But not in the first. Never in the first (unless we get onto transgender).

A comparison would be Vanilla Ice, privileged private school boy from a high socioeconomic background, trying to pretend he is working class and 'down with the kids' to look more street. He cannot, and has never perceived working class struggle, in the first person, he only sees it from the outside. Therefore, what he claims to preach, and what he actually is, are two different things.

For a more political context, we'll use the illustration of a member of the royal family trying to be Marxist.

[Vazdania]

somebody who gets the 13 Amendment!!!

Never thought about it like that, but yes! I was just thinking more along the lines of, it's your human right to not be dead for your country.

Its involuntary servtitude...

[Raeyh]

Let's be realistic, that's never going to happen. It would be easier to have women be forced to take part in the draft then have the government decide to leave itself defenseless and unmanned during a major war.

YOU GET A SAD FACE! YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE CONSTITUTION ---> YOUR SAD FACE-----> ):

At least I'm not claiming military service is slavery. It's as ridiculous an argument as saying taxation is theft.

[Death Metal]

Anyone with a grasp of American history circa WWII should understand. We had so many volunteers that we could have fought the war with just them with no difference in the outcome. Conscription stopped being useful around the time when people who knew how to use weapons weren't dying in duels of honor on a regular basis.

[Cannot think of a name]

No, you just have to make it without such an obvious pretzel. Look at the two sentences back to back here, man...

No one should tell someone what is properly feminist, and then you scold 'male feminists' for not being feminist.

If you've wrapped your head around that little conundrum, you haven't successfully unpacked it for the rest of us.

I see what you tried to do here,

Understand your argument?

but I feel the need to address something very important.

Please.

1) I have never referred to MYSELF SPECIFICALLY as a male feminist, therefore I do not make any assumptions on my scale of 'feminist-ility'

Uh...okay...perhaps you're going somewhere with this since I'm not sure that I addressed your particular feminism...

2) I have never said male feminists are, or are not true feminists.

Are you sure?

I simply said that male feminism is a fallacy,

What definition of 'fallacy' are you using, then?

and that male feminists can be more patriarchal than non male feminists.

Lamps can be more like billy clubs than billy clubs. I'm not sure what that proves.

[Vazdania]

I disagree, we dont share the same genitalia, nor do we "think" the same, but in all actuality men can percieve the struggle of women, in fact thier were many men who paraded and marched with women for the 19th Amendment.

Men can perceive woman struggle in the third person (or second person), yes. But not in the first. Never in the first (unless we get onto transgender).

A comparison would be Vanilla Ice, privileged private school boy from a high socioeconomic background, trying to pretend he is working class and 'down with the kids' to look more street. He cannot, and has never perceived working class struggle, in the first person, he only sees it from the outside.

Your not understanding. They can go through the same things. Specifically if the men are effeminant. You are to caught up in the differences.

I don't think the man who was standing in the crowd shouting 'LET MY WIFE VOTE' 'LET MY DAUGHTER VOTE' 'LET WOMEN VOTE' is any different than the woman standing there who is yelling 'LET ME VOTE!' They are there hand in hand both standing up to injustice.