One China or Free Taiwan?

[Senkaku]

It's nothing to do with fighting fascists, or any sort of ideology. You're living in a traditionalist bubble if you think that "treason" has any relevance to land claims. Nations are developed through "treason". Do you think Dimitri Romanov should be recognized by the UN as the legitimate ruler of Russia? After all, the Russian Empire was destroyed by "treason".

Better a Romanov than KGB.

A Romanov who wields zero actual power or influence over policy in Russia. Imagine if we concluded a treaty with said Romanov instead of the actual Russian state about Syria, or a treaty with the Taipei government about putting American air bases and early warning radar in Xinjiang. You'd be negotiating with someone who has zero actual authority to implement any policy in the areas that you're recognizing them as controlling. It's an exercise in stupidity. Every nation could invent convenient fictional governments that it recognizes as the governments of other nations and conclude whatever agreements it wanted with these imaginary exiled governments, but nothing would actually happen (either that, or everyone would go to war trying to enforce their absurd fake treaties).

[South Pacific Republic]

I always thought they should call themselves the Republic of Taiwan.

[Tuthina]

I always thought they should call themselves the Republic of Taiwan.

And risk a war with PRC?

[Rio Cana]

As some of you may know. The situation between Taiwan and the US is a bit complex. Jimmy Carter's administration made it clear that the Peoples Republic of China would be the sole entity of China to be officially recognized by the US government. Nevertheless, the US does maintain unofficial relations with the "people of Taiwan." If such relations were to be made official the United States could either recognize Taiwan as the sole legitamate China, or as an independent sovereign nation. Both moves would be expected to anger Beijing, who has not ruled out the potential of armed invasion of Taiwan, which it believes to belong to the PRC. An alternative would be the current policy that attempts to stabilize the region by appeasing to the PRC whilst still assisting the people of Taiwan. Finally, the US can cut all ties with Taiwan all together.

Any opinions on the matter?

I fully believe that the US should Recognize Taiwan as its own sovereign nation. This will strain PRC and US relations, but I find that the ROC is deserving of recognition as a free state, and that its citizens should have the right to self rule.

If it wont recognize Puerto rico it definitely wont recognize china

Check back in 2020 when Carmen Yulin becomes the acting Governor.

[Benuty]

I always thought they should call themselves the Republic of Taiwan.

And risk a war with PRC?

You must be joking.

[Ashmoria]

no

Taiwan is doing very well the way things are.

Except Taiwan isn't a country at all. The Republic of China most certainly is.

so what?


the status quo is good for them. it would be stupid to change now.

[Tuthina]

And risk a war with PRC?

You must be joking.

I wish I am.

[Rio Cana]

Might seem a bit biased on my part but the US used to support the ROC as it frankly SHOULD. We never asked to be part of a communist dictatorship that caused the deaths of thousands if not millions. We should be recognized as the one true china, those communists simply occupy the mainland, and should not be recognized as the real china, our government is legal, and we are a sovereign nation and always will be.

Like it or not, those communist came into being because the ordinary people of China supported them. This in itself legitimizes them. If the people had not supported the communist, today we would see the KMT and probably other political parties in China.

The proof. Did you see all those ordinary people waving and cheering - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4-x_inEByE

This was the nationalist situation in Nanjing which was the Nationalist Capital of China - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGVyugI0YCI

With the fall of Nanjing the whole Nationalist resistance on the mainland collapsed.

[Benuty]

Except Taiwan isn't a country at all. The Republic of China most certainly is.

so what?


the status quo is good for them. it would be stupid to change now.

So you don't care then good to know.

The status quo is an insult to them, and does nothing, but continue a smaller scale cold war between the two countries.

[Rio Cana]

Except Taiwan isn't a country at all. The Republic of China most certainly is.

so what?


the status quo is good for them. it would be stupid to change now.

Like I already pointed out, the PRC is getting tough on Hong Kong. Hong Kong still has 39 years of self-government to go. I think Taiwan might look at this and say no thanks PRC and possible try to got there own way which means give up being the Republic of China and becoming the Republic of Taiwan or Formosa.

[Ashmoria]

so what?


the status quo is good for them. it would be stupid to change now.

So you don't care then good to know.

The status quo is an insult to them, and does nothing, but continue a smaller scale cold war between the two countries.

a cold war is far better than a hot war.

they can deal with the supposed insult. life is good in Taiwan, it wouldn't be so good if the PRC decided to force the issue.

[Tuthina]

so what?


the status quo is good for them. it would be stupid to change now.

Like I already pointed out, the PRC is getting tough on Hong Kong. Hong Kong still has 39 years of self-government to go. I think Taiwan might look at this and say no thanks PRC and possible try to got there own way which means give up being the Republic of China and becoming the Republic of Taiwan or Formosa.

To be fair, One Country, Two Systems have long failed to impress ROC, arguably even before it was actually implemented. If anything, peaceful reunification became but a pipe dream the moment PRC decided to respond to ROC's democratic president election with missile tests.

[Rio Cana]

Did you read this from last month. The US congress is going to get tough on PRC because of there interference in Hong Kong. Yes, there is a treaty between the UK. and the PRC on maintaining HK. autonomy for fifty year. But it still seems this act of the US congress would qualify has interfering in the internal affairs of the PRC. That the PRC will not tolerate. It would just fuel more nationalistic feelings in mainland China. They remember what happened during the Qing dynasty when the Europeans and US came knocking. At this point, they will not tolerate such interferance again. You see the communist cannot kow tow. If the communist kow tow then they know that more then likely there future will not look too good.

Read this - http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11 ... clear.html

[Ashmoria]

Like I already pointed out, the PRC is getting tough on Hong Kong. Hong Kong still has 39 years of self-government to go. I think Taiwan might look at this and say no thanks PRC and possible try to got there own way which means give up being the Republic of China and becoming the Republic of Taiwan or Formosa.

To be fair, One Country, Two Systems have long failed to impress ROC, arguably even before it was actually implemented. If anything, peaceful reunification became but a pipe dream the moment PRC decided to respond to ROC's democratic president election with missile tests.

its my understanding that Taiwan has come to believe that being "Taiwan" is best for them. unfortunately Beijing doesn't like that idea. so .... pretending that all side have their own way already is best for now.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Recognizing the Republic of China would be recognizing it as the legitimate government of China, not an independent Taiwan. So no.

The US is allied with them anyways.

[Cetacea]

I'm not sure why we need two threads on this exact same topic but as I said in the other thread

the PRC and the RoC should both piss off - Taiwan is Taiwan and it belongs to the Taiwanese.

Taiwan is not and has NEVER been China. The Chinese who went there after 1661 (both Koxinga and later the Kuomintang) were refugees fleeing defeat in their own country. Being the closest port for fleeing refugees is the only claim that China has to Taiwan

The Republic of Taiwan is the only legitimate claimant to Taiwan and anything else is just wanker politics.

I expect the status quo will remain

[Tuthina]

To be fair, One Country, Two Systems have long failed to impress ROC, arguably even before it was actually implemented. If anything, peaceful reunification became but a pipe dream the moment PRC decided to respond to ROC's democratic president election with missile tests.

its my understanding that Taiwan has come to believe that being "Taiwan" is best for them. unfortunately Beijing doesn't like that idea. so .... pretending that all side have their own way already is best for now.

Which is simply a logical conclusion of the odds of ROC being able to retake the mainland becoming virtually zero, perhaps after the 70s or so. Becoming Taiwan plus a few odd islands is merely the natural conclusion if they prefer to continue their existence. The issue of PRC is more complicated than many in this thread made it out to be, but basically its threat prevent any change of ROC's legal status.

[Gauthier]

Nothing boosts the economy better than a trade war, and possible military war with China. *nod*

[Uxupox]

Recognizing the Republic of China would be recognizing it as the legitimate government of China, not an independent Taiwan. So no.

The US is allied with them anyways.

Just like we were supposed to "guarantee" the Ukrainian sovereignty.

[Benuty]

I'm not sure why we need two threads on this exact same topic but as I said in the other thread

the PRC and the RoC should both piss off - Taiwan is Taiwan and it belongs to the Taiwanese.

Taiwan is not and has NEVER been China. The Chinese who went there after 1661 (both Koxinga and later the Kuomintang) were refugees fleeing defeat in their own country. Being the closest port for fleeing refugees is the only claim that China has to Taiwan

The Republic of Taiwan is the only legitimate claimant to Taiwan and anything else is just wanker politics.

I expect the status quo will remain

There is, and never will be a republic of Taiwan. You think the people in Taiwan are electing the president of Taiwan?

No they are electing the president of the Republic of China. The ROC cannot piss off when it is the sole legitimate government of Taiwan.

[Uxupox]

Nothing boosts the economy better than a trade war, and possible military war with China. *nod*

Nothing beats calling China daddy and master.

[Rio Cana]

its my understanding that Taiwan has come to believe that being "Taiwan" is best for them. unfortunately Beijing doesn't like that idea. so .... pretending that all side have their own way already is best for now.

Which is simply a logical conclusion of the odds of ROC being able to retake the mainland becoming virtually zero, perhaps after the 70s or so. Becoming Taiwan plus a few odd islands is merely the natural conclusion if they prefer to continue their existence. The issue of PRC is more complicated than many in this thread made it out to be, but basically its threat prevent any change of ROC's legal status.

One reason the PRC is interested in China is because of its strategic position ninety miles off mainland coast in the Western Pacific. China is kind of hemmed in by Korea, Japan and the Philippines. An independent Taiwan would add to it. Any government on the mainland would agree that Taiwan is essential when it comes to projecting Chinese power into the Pacific and in defending the coastal provinces of China.

[Ashmoria]

its my understanding that Taiwan has come to believe that being "Taiwan" is best for them. unfortunately Beijing doesn't like that idea. so .... pretending that all side have their own way already is best for now.

Which is simply a logical conclusion of the odds of ROC being able to retake the mainland becoming virtually zero, perhaps after the 70s or so. Becoming Taiwan plus a few odd islands is merely the natural conclusion if they prefer to continue their existence. The issue of PRC is more complicated than many in this thread made it out to be, but basically its threat prevent any change of ROC's legal status.

aye.

I expect that they will eventually be absorbed by the mainland but with luck that will be at least 50 years down the road

[Rio Cana]

Nothing boosts the economy better than a trade war, and possible military war with China. *nod*

The Mexicans will be more then happy to replace those Chinese items sold in the US. However, make sure to make gates when you build that wall.

[Tuthina]

Which is simply a logical conclusion of the odds of ROC being able to retake the mainland becoming virtually zero, perhaps after the 70s or so. Becoming Taiwan plus a few odd islands is merely the natural conclusion if they prefer to continue their existence. The issue of PRC is more complicated than many in this thread made it out to be, but basically its threat prevent any change of ROC's legal status.

One reason the PRC is interested in China is because of its strategic position ninety miles off mainland coast in the Western Pacific. China is kind of hemmed in by Korea, Japan and the Philippines. An independent Taiwan would add to it. Any government on the mainland would agree that Taiwan is essential when it comes to projecting Chinese power into the Pacific and in defending the coastal provinces of China.

That is true, although at the same time, I think a form of revanchism rooted in nationalism might be a larger factor here, seeing that PRC would only need a friendly state in Taiwan to have access to Pacific Ocean. Of course, I guess it is more likely that PRC just does not have the required political finesse to pull it off, if its action in Hong Kong is anything to go by.