John F Kennedy vs Ronald Reagan

[Ripoll]

Erm, didn't you say the soviet economy couldn't meet demand of the people? If so, how could stagnation in the 80's be caused by a lack of demand? In any case, Stagnation of russian economy was due to political reasons. There was no strong leaderships to make the right decisions... era of uncertanity and instability. Workers often went on strike, demanding more rights and such. Also, Assume there is no demand for more goods in a society... then why should there be more demand? Why should the economy grow if everyone has what they need? Why should we pollute the planet and make people work overtime if noone wants more growth, hmmmm? Advertising makes absolutely no sense. Economy is not the only thing we can invest in. If Industry produces enough, why not focus investments elsewhere? Perhaps allocate more resources to growth of infrastructure or expansion of education, health service and R&D sector?

Nope, We fucked up the 3rd world and we are still fucking up the 3rd world. We still support tyrants and we still plunder the poor. Capital flight out of 3rd world countries is 8 times as much as the value of Aid they recieve... which also happens to be a fraction of US military spending. The pollution we cause hurts those in the 3rd world the most. Millions die each year due to climate change perpetuated by Western Industry. Look it up.

No. Regulations don't do shit about monopolies in smaller areas. Get your facts right. There can be monopolies in the markets of entire cities and corporations can underprice their goods to conquer new markets and drive small business bankrupt. Also, US laws don't apply in 3rd world capitalist countries where monopolies are rampant.

Nope, Even the average Cuban gets better service from its relatively piss poor government then what the US of A has to offer... The US has better infrastructure, Better funding, better doctors but the burocratic load is crippling and those poorer half of the country gets no healthcare at all. Cubans have higher lifespan, shorter waiting times at doctors and pay much less for their healthcare. Obamacare may have improved things but not quiet enough. yeah, The statistics are staggering...

No, The driving force behind innovation should be curiosity, Phylantropy, Industrialism and Rationalism, not the profit motive. Research motivated by profit can harm humanity more then help. Monsanto, Microsoft and Drug Industry are best examples. Biotechnology could be decades ahead if it wasn't for the massive law and patent disputes that plague research and hinder progress ever since private sector invested in these fields.

Actually no. There are no free markets in first world countries. Free markets only exist in the 3rd world. There is capitalism in the 1st but not free markets or anything associated. States and Corporate conglomerates Regulate prices of commodities and manipulate markets. Best example is the energy sector. Massive... and when I say massive, I mean billion dollar level massive subsidies are given to Oil companies to expand their operations, many more billions if not trillions are spent on the Financial sector to repay favors from before election day. Auto industries and the military industrial complex are also highly subsidized, R&D likewise, all of this on taxpayer money. Conglomerates agree to raise prices of goods together to ramp up their profits. Pharmecutical Industries are the best example. They sell their stuff at outrageous prices as noone else is allowed to produce them legally... and no, US law can't do shit about it. It bends to the will of big business. Other commodity prices are regulated by reckless Wall street Speculators who drive prices up and down for no good reason, creating bubbles that stimulate fake demand which eventually disappear, devastating entire sectors of the economy in the process.
Still better then for the 3rd world though, At least they won't get profits leaving the country at horrific rates.

Gonna fix post later.

*major edit incoming

It is a law to have healthcare, everyone in the US is required to have healthcare. You're assessment was bullshit. You're a philospher trying to play economics but you have no idea what the real statistics are, you have no idea what any of the Government programs do you're absolutely clueless as to how any of it work.

Lobbying is an industry initself, the pharmaceutical industry in the US is the most productive in the WORLD. Biotech advancements - US
largest amount of patents released a year - US Average National income - US World's Largest economy - US World's largest financial sector - US Financial capital of the world - New York/US Aeurnautical and Space Engineering - US Advanced manufacturing - US

Our success underlines the success of a mixed market economy. You're a literature major trying to play economics and nothing more. You don't know what demand is, you don't know what the definition of an economy is, you don't know shit.

Frankly anyone who tries to claim Soviet Russia had a decent economic system is full of shit. It goes against history, common sense, rationality, understanding of markets, investment, prices EVERYTHING.

There is not a SINGLE CREDIBLE LEADING ECONOMIST, who would agree with you on ANYTHING you said. Regardless of what side of the political spectrum they are on.

Give me on influential leading economist of today that genuinely believes Soviet Russia's economy was in any way sustainable or efficient. You CAN'T NAME ANY.

The facts say mixed market economies work, and are preferred. The top 10 economies in the world have one. Everyone in the developed world is benefiting from it.

[Harkback Union]

Erm, didn't you say the soviet economy couldn't meet demand of the people? If so, how could stagnation in the 80's be caused by a lack of demand? In any case, Stagnation of russian economy was due to political reasons. There was no strong leaderships to make the right decisions... era of uncertanity and instability. Workers often went on strike, demanding more rights and such. Also, Assume there is no demand for more goods in a society... then why should there be more demand? Why should the economy grow if everyone has what they need? Why should we pollute the planet and make people work overtime if noone wants more growth, hmmmm? Advertising makes absolutely no sense. Economy is not the only thing we can invest in. If Industry produces enough, why not focus investments elsewhere? Perhaps allocate more resources to growth of infrastructure or expansion of education, health service and R&D sector?

Nope, We fucked up the 3rd world and we are still fucking up the 3rd world. We still support tyrants and we still plunder the poor. Capital flight out of 3rd world countries is 8 times as much as the value of Aid they recieve... which also happens to be a fraction of US military spending. The pollution we cause hurts those in the 3rd world the most. Millions die each year due to climate change perpetuated by Western Industry. Look it up.

No. Regulations don't do shit about monopolies in smaller areas. Get your facts right. There can be monopolies in the markets of entire cities and corporations can underprice their goods to conquer new markets and drive small business bankrupt. Also, US laws don't apply in 3rd world capitalist countries where monopolies are rampant.

Nope, Even the average Cuban gets better service from its relatively piss poor government then what the US of A has to offer... The US has better infrastructure, Better funding, better doctors but the burocratic load is crippling and those poorer half of the country gets no healthcare at all. Cubans have higher lifespan, shorter waiting times at doctors and pay much less for their healthcare. Obamacare may have improved things but not quiet enough. yeah, The statistics are staggering...

No, The driving force behind innovation should be curiosity, Phylantropy, Industrialism and Rationalism, not the profit motive. Research motivated by profit can harm humanity more then help. Monsanto, Microsoft and Drug Industry are best examples. Biotechnology could be decades ahead if it wasn't for the massive law and patent disputes that plague research and hinder progress ever since private sector invested in these fields.

Actually no. There are no free markets in first world countries. Free markets only exist in the 3rd world. There is capitalism in the 1st but not free markets or anything associated. States and Corporate conglomerates Regulate prices of commodities and manipulate markets. Best example is the energy sector. Massive... and when I say massive, I mean billion dollar level massive subsidies are given to Oil companies to expand their operations, many more billions if not trillions are spent on the Financial sector to repay favors from before election day. Auto industries and the military industrial complex are also highly subsidized, R&D likewise, all of this on taxpayer money. Conglomerates agree to raise prices of goods together to ramp up their profits. Pharmecutical Industries are the best example. They sell their stuff at outrageous prices as noone else is allowed to produce them legally... and no, US law can't do shit about it. It bends to the will of big business. Other commodity prices are regulated by reckless Wall street Speculators who drive prices up and down for no good reason, creating bubbles that stimulate fake demand which eventually disappear, devastating entire sectors of the economy in the process.
Still better then for the 3rd world though, At least they won't get profits leaving the country at horrific rates.

Gonna fix post later.

*major edit incoming

It is a law to have healthcare, everyone in the US is required to have healthcare. You're assessment was bullshit. You're a philospher trying to play economics but you have no idea what the real statistics are, you have no idea what any of the Government programs do you're absolutely clueless as to how any of it work.

Lobbying is an industry initself, the pharmaceutical industry in the US is the most productive in the WORLD. Biotech advancements - US
largest amount of patents released a year - US Average National income - US World's Largest economy - US World's largest financial sector - US Financial capital of the world - New York/US Aeurnautical and Space Engineering - US Advanced manufacturing - US

Our success underlines the success of a mixed market economy. You're a literature major trying to play economics and nothing more. You don't know what demand is, you don't know what the definition of an economy is, you don't know shit.

Frankly anyone who tries to claim Soviet Russia had a decent economic system is full of shit. It goes against history, common sense, rationality, understanding of markets, investment, prices EVERYTHING.

There is not a SINGLE CREDIBLE LEADING ECONOMIST, who would agree with you on ANYTHING you said. Regardless of what side of the political spectrum they are on.

Give me on influential leading economist of today that genuinely believes Soviet Russia's economy was in any way sustainable or efficient. You CAN'T NAME ANY.

The facts say mixed market economies work, and are preferred. The top 10 economies in the world have one. Everyone in the developed world is benefiting from it.

And again, you just keep repeating corporate propaganda. You have so little understanding of economics you fall for their cheap lies.

1. Most Patents in US don't come from Useful R&D, especially in biotech sector. What they do is to patent DNA code extracted from various animals and plants to secure future profits. That's the stupidest thing humanity could focus its efforts on ATM. The Russians were always better at Space-tech. Their rockets are cheaper and more reliable, FACT. US has worst Education system in the developed world. Its students are among the stupidest in every area, look it up. Healthcare likewise and no, Not all Americans have Health care by law. What shitty service is offered does not qualify as health care by rational standards. Its average income is NOT the highest in the world, especially if you weight it, then it is among the lowest in the developed world again. Income inequality, Debt, Crime rate and lifespan is nearing 3rd world levels. The US is the single shittiest place to live in the west. Nowhere in the UK, Germany, Belgium or even in notorious Japan, France or Russia will you find slums of such poverty and size as in America. ONE OUT OF 30 KIDS are HOMELESS. Cuba has lover child poverty rate then that. Finally, No, US pharma is the worst in the world. It may be the biggest, but its products are shit. 33% of the world's medicine is consumed in America, most of that medicine produced in America. EU uses a fraction of that with a higher population and its citizens are far healthier. Look it up if you didn't learn it in school. I did.

As I explained, Financial sector is useless for global economy. It merely leeches off real economy to divert profits. You could have all of wall street relocated into Zimbabwe with little trouble and then Zimbabwe would be the wealthiest place in the world. You don't need big education to speculate with stocks and do banking... or you could just have wall street blown off the map. As long as you carry on as if nothing happened, economy would actually improve as it wouldn't have to sustain the parasites and pay for financial bubbles. You don't have to take a course in economics to know that Gambling won't do any good for the economy.

2. Your logic fails. You don't address ANY of my Issues. You tell my I'm wrong, You don't tell me why. That's typical though.

3. You don't find my economists credible? Well I don't find yours, nor do 90% of the world community. Go anywhere outside the western world and they will tell you that Capitalism Fails. People live in utter misery thanks to capitalism and they aspire to socialist Ideals. Wherever the people actually manage to implement those, Living Standards skyrocket. Venezuela, Vietnam, Cuba and even the slightly socialist pre-revolution Libya are fine examples. They are far above their Capitalist neighbors in every area, despite their poor start.

while If people took time to inquire into the policies of "communist" Cambodia And modern (1990-) North Korea, they would learn that they are/were actually fascist autocracies with little to no concern for equality and worker rights.

Nah screw this, I don't have time for you as said before. Go read history, Go Read Das Kapital. Then Try to find where Marx is wrong, it won't be easy. CREDIBLE ECONOMIST say he is right. CREDIBLE ECONOMIST say Chinese system is far superior to US. Their Growth is sustainable. US growth is not. Its just the financial system bubbling and The us is literally ripping of the world with its massive debt. They give the world money they will never be able to repay. They give they import much more then they export. They pollute, They destroy, They destabilize the world. The US is the greatest threat to world peace by any credible global study. Name one which says otherwise.
Also clear out you dictionary. You can't even define some elementary words.

And here is one economic article that by analysis concludes that soviet economy is more efficient:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... s-the-west
Despite political and historical meddling, which pretty much accounts for the famines and destruction. Try to find the error in their logic. I assure you can't. Anyone who's not payed to lie by big business will tell you that a planned economy is more efficient then a non-planned one. Western societies had the most efficient economies when they got the closest to soviet style economies, FACT!... and The price system does not send goods where they are needed. It sends goods where the rich want them to go.

[Kingdom of Viana]

Both were excellent, hard working, and intelligent presidents, but I will have to go with my main man Reagan on this one!

[New Secular States]

Ronald Reagan for some things.

[New Hampshire Republic]

Ahem *shuffles papers* *clears throat*

JFK was awesome, but he had his downfall. He was a womanizer, and somewhat imperialist. His inability to keep his schlong out of Cuba makes him suck to me, but his good stuff, like his attempt to screw the Fed, outweigh his bad stuff.

Meanwhile, Reagan sucked.

[Geilinor]

Ahem *shuffles papers* *clears throat*

JFK was awesome, but he had his downfall. He was a womanizer, and somewhat imperialist. His inability to keep his schlong out of Cuba makes him suck to me, but his good stuff, like his attempt to screw the Fed, outweigh his bad stuff.

Meanwhile, Reagan sucked.

JFK never tried to get rid of or screw the Fed, it was a minor executive order on a minor issue.

[Reddogkeno101]

Two presidents both championed by their sides of the aisle.

"The great debate about who was better will never end, but can we all agree that John F Kennedy was cooler?" - Bill Maher

JFK said we would go to the moon........and we went men.....we went.

For the complete Reagan Smack down click here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRlFXyoZFHs

John F Kennedy went to the moon, prevented a nuclear war, used his executive powers to prevent segregation and racism, and the time period he was president in was the Era of social responsibility. Not social responsibility in the eyes of tea partiests, social responsibility in the eyes of an American. Community service, extra hours, real work ethic. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

People dressed classy, acted classy, and spoke classy. The 80s......well.......

Well since we share the last name, I'm biased, but even without bias; Kennedy.
Ironically enough, both the Reagans (O'Reagan) and Kennedys (O'Kennedy) are septs of the Dál gCais clan, so they are related distantly.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_gCais) go to the right hand side and look at septs.

[Ripoll]

Ahem *shuffles papers* *clears throat*

JFK was awesome, but he had his downfall. He was a womanizer, and somewhat imperialist. His inability to keep his schlong out of Cuba makes him suck to me, but his good stuff, like his attempt to screw the Fed, outweigh his bad stuff.

Meanwhile, Reagan sucked.

JFK never attempted to screw the fed. He and the fed were in agreement the majority of the time, he and the chairmen were also personal friends. This is just blatant Austrian propaganda. You've watched one too many inaccurate bullshit conspiracy vids on youtube.

[Ripoll]

*major edit incoming

It is a law to have healthcare, everyone in the US is required to have healthcare. You're assessment was bullshit. You're a philospher trying to play economics but you have no idea what the real statistics are, you have no idea what any of the Government programs do you're absolutely clueless as to how any of it work.

Lobbying is an industry initself, the pharmaceutical industry in the US is the most productive in the WORLD. Biotech advancements - US
largest amount of patents released a year - US Average National income - US World's Largest economy - US World's largest financial sector - US Financial capital of the world - New York/US Aeurnautical and Space Engineering - US Advanced manufacturing - US

Our success underlines the success of a mixed market economy. You're a literature major trying to play economics and nothing more. You don't know what demand is, you don't know what the definition of an economy is, you don't know shit.

Frankly anyone who tries to claim Soviet Russia had a decent economic system is full of shit. It goes against history, common sense, rationality, understanding of markets, investment, prices EVERYTHING.

There is not a SINGLE CREDIBLE LEADING ECONOMIST, who would agree with you on ANYTHING you said. Regardless of what side of the political spectrum they are on.

Give me on influential leading economist of today that genuinely believes Soviet Russia's economy was in any way sustainable or efficient. You CAN'T NAME ANY.

The facts say mixed market economies work, and are preferred. The top 10 economies in the world have one. Everyone in the developed world is benefiting from it.

And again, you just keep repeating corporate propaganda. You have so little understanding of economics you fall for their cheap lies.

1. Most Patents in US don't come from Useful R&D, especially in biotech sector. What they do is to patent DNA code extracted from various animals and plants to secure future profits. That's the stupidest thing humanity could focus its efforts on ATM. The Russians were always better at Space-tech. Their rockets are cheaper and more reliable, FACT. US has worst Education system in the developed world. Its students are among the stupidest in every area, look it up. Healthcare likewise and no, Not all Americans have Health care by law. What shitty service is offered does not qualify as health care by rational standards. Its average income is NOT the highest in the world, especially if you weight it, then it is among the lowest in the developed world again. Income inequality, Debt, Crime rate and lifespan is nearing 3rd world levels. The US is the single shittiest place to live in the west. Nowhere in the UK, Germany, Belgium or even in notorious Japan, France or Russia will you find slums of such poverty and size as in America. ONE OUT OF 30 KIDS are HOMELESS. Cuba has lover child poverty rate then that. Finally, No, US pharma is the worst in the world. It may be the biggest, but its products are shit. 33% of the world's medicine is consumed in America, most of that medicine produced in America. EU uses a fraction of that with a higher population and its citizens are far healthier. Look it up if you didn't learn it in school. I did.

As I explained, Financial sector is useless for global economy. It merely leeches off real economy to divert profits. You could have all of wall street relocated into Zimbabwe with little trouble and then Zimbabwe would be the wealthiest place in the world. You don't need big education to speculate with stocks and do banking... or you could just have wall street blown off the map. As long as you carry on as if nothing happened, economy would actually improve as it wouldn't have to sustain the parasites and pay for financial bubbles. You don't have to take a course in economics to know that Gambling won't do any good for the economy.

2. Your logic fails. You don't address ANY of my Issues. You tell my I'm wrong, You don't tell me why. That's typical though.

3. You don't find my economists credible? Well I don't find yours, nor do 90% of the world community. Go anywhere outside the western world and they will tell you that Capitalism Fails. People live in utter misery thanks to capitalism and they aspire to socialist Ideals. Wherever the people actually manage to implement those, Living Standards skyrocket. Venezuela, Vietnam, Cuba and even the slightly socialist pre-revolution Libya are fine examples. They are far above their Capitalist neighbors in every area, despite their poor start.

while If people took time to inquire into the policies of "communist" Cambodia And modern (1990-) North Korea, they would learn that they are/were actually fascist autocracies with little to no concern for equality and worker rights.

Nah screw this, I don't have time for you as said before. Go read history, Go Read Das Kapital. Then Try to find where Marx is wrong, it won't be easy. CREDIBLE ECONOMIST say he is right. CREDIBLE ECONOMIST say Chinese system is far superior to US. Their Growth is sustainable. US growth is not. Its just the financial system bubbling and The us is literally ripping of the world with its massive debt. They give the world money they will never be able to repay. They give they import much more then they export. They pollute, They destroy, They destabilize the world. The US is the greatest threat to world peace by any credible global study. Name one which says otherwise.
Also clear out you dictionary. You can't even define some elementary words.

And here is one economic article that by analysis concludes that soviet economy is more efficient:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... s-the-west
Despite political and historical meddling, which pretty much accounts for the famines and destruction. Try to find the error in their logic. I assure you can't. Anyone who's not payed to lie by big business will tell you that a planned economy is more efficient then a non-planned one. Western societies had the most efficient economies when they got the closest to soviet style economies, FACT!... and The price system does not send goods where they are needed. It sends goods where the rich want them to go.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You got karl marx, and I got every notable politician who has actually contributed to modern day mixed market capitalism. Just gonna have to tell all the cubans drowning trying to swim to America they're wrong, cuba's great! Cuba is a paradise. I'll also tell that to all the citizens that lived under communist rule in east berlin who rushed over to west and constantly strived to free themselves from oppressive fascist regimes.

Nope, Communism wins! Definitely because communistic countries are leading powers in the world. America is bad, because self hating Americans who live in America believe it to be bad. They've never lived under communist rule, and they've never worn a military uniform for as much as they criticize our military heroes.

They've never invented a pill for as much as they criticize the pharmaceutical industry, and they've certainly never held any productive jobs in the economic field for as much as they have to say about "communism".

[Scyobayrynn]

Two presidents both championed by their sides of the aisle.

"The great debate about who was better will never end, but can we all agree that John F Kennedy was cooler?" - Bill Maher

JFK said we would go to the moon........and we went men.....we went.

For the complete Reagan Smack down click here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRlFXyoZFHs

John F Kennedy went to the moon, prevented a nuclear war, used his executive powers to prevent segregation and racism, and the time period he was president in was the Era of social responsibility. Not social responsibility in the eyes of tea partiests, social responsibility in the eyes of an American. Community service, extra hours, real work ethic. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

People dressed classy, acted classy, and spoke classy. The 80s......well.......

DOnt forget cheating on your wife, you forgot an inability to remain loyal to the one person on earth you swore to be loyal to util the day you died.
Go!!!! Kennedy.

JFK bumbled with the soviets, lost Cuba and set up a situation where ending the hostility with Cuba would nigh impossible though Castro had originally wanted the US as its Patron not the USSR.

Also with regards to Civil Rights, through most of presidency, and I mean MOST he did nothing for Civil Rights movement, he barely even mentioned it. He avoided like the plauge for fear it would collapse his hopes for reelection, or serve to alienate Southern Congressmen whom he needed to get legislation pushed through on other issues he deemed more important than Civil Rights...which was just about every other issue.

The Freedom Riders occured in 1961, thats during Kennedy's presidency. What did he do? Took Bobby Kennedy's advice sent some US Marshalls to protect the freedom riders then the moment they were out of IMMEDIATE danger he handed over all authority to the ALABAMA Governor John Patterson, thats the same Governor who during his campaign linked crime to desegregation and associated the NAACP with gangsters. As you might guess the mob who saught to kill the Freedom Riders, no one was prosecuted.

When Martin Luther King asked Kennedy to meet the Freedom Riders - HEROES of the Civil Rights movement... Kennedy flatly refused.

1962 Mississippi University a Black man(James Meredith) attempted to register at the school and was blocked by then Governor Ross Barnet (infamously Racist even then).
Kennedy didnt want a spectacle like Eisenhower's Little Rock(a brave move, sending troops to make sure people knew Segregation was OVER) the hand wringing Kennedy wanted to use as little presidential power as he could lest he be too associated with Civil Right movement. He lied and claimed that all well with Meredith on the campus(lied to the public) until finally the town exploded in violence with two people dying and hundreds being injured and the need to call in 16,000 federal troops to restore order.

He did send troops against George Wallace in 1963(Wallance was another governor of Alabama who among his many campaign slogans promised "Segregation then, Segregation now, Segregation forever". This act against Wallace is hardly admirable when one understands Kennedy's views on the Civil Rights Act Bill were "the minimum we can ask for and the maximum we can stand behind" -page 518 Richard Reeves, President Kennedy: Profile of Power. Where he only wanted to give over what was needed to cool the Blacks while not fomenting the Whites against his reelection.


So can we put to rest the idea he was a "Champion" of Civil Rights.


Reagan appointed the first Female justice to SCOTUS.
well thats just about the only thing Reagan did I cant critique with reckless abandon.

[Text People]

John F Kennedy went to the moon, prevented a nuclear war, used his executive powers to prevent segregation and racism, and the time period he was president in was the Era of social responsibility.

Prevented a nuclear war/almost caused one. Whatsa difference really?... Okay, yeah, he did stand down the Russians.

[Calimera II]

Reagan was not killed and Kennedy was so Reagan wins.

... kidding me? Is that really the reason.....?

[UED]

Two presidents both championed by their sides of the aisle.

"The great debate about who was better will never end, but can we all agree that John F Kennedy was cooler?" - Bill Maher

JFK said we would go to the moon........and we went men.....we went.

For the complete Reagan Smack down click here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRlFXyoZFHs

John F Kennedy went to the moon, prevented a nuclear war, used his executive powers to prevent segregation and racism, and the time period he was president in was the Era of social responsibility. Not social responsibility in the eyes of tea partiests, social responsibility in the eyes of an American. Community service, extra hours, real work ethic. "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

People dressed classy, acted classy, and spoke classy. The 80s......well.......

DOnt forget cheating on your wife, you forgot an inability to remain loyal to the one person on earth you swore to be loyal to util the day you died.
Go!!!! Kennedy.

JFK bumbled with the soviets, lost Cuba and set up a situation where ending the hostility with Cuba would nigh impossible though Castro had originally wanted the US as its Patron not the USSR.

Also with regards to Civil Rights, through most of presidency, and I mean MOST he did nothing for Civil Rights movement, he barely even mentioned it. He avoided like the plauge for fear it would collapse his hopes for reelection, or serve to alienate Southern Congressmen whom he needed to get legislation pushed through on other issues he deemed more important than Civil Rights...which was just about every other issue.

The Freedom Riders occured in 1961, thats during Kennedy's presidency. What did he do? Took Bobby Kennedy's advice sent some US Marshalls to protect the freedom riders then the moment they were out of IMMEDIATE danger he handed over all authority to the ALABAMA Governor John Patterson, thats the same Governor who during his campaign linked crime to desegregation and associated the NAACP with gangsters. As you might guess the mob who saught to kill the Freedom Riders, no one was prosecuted.

When Martin Luther King asked Kennedy to meet the Freedom Riders - HEROES of the Civil Rights movement... Kennedy flatly refused.

1962 Mississippi University a Black man(James Meredith) attempted to register at the school and was blocked by then Governor Ross Barnet (infamously Racist even then).
Kennedy didnt want a spectacle like Eisenhower's Little Rock(a brave move, sending troops to make sure people knew Segregation was OVER) the hand wringing Kennedy wanted to use as little presidential power as he could lest he be too associated with Civil Right movement. He lied and claimed that all well with Meredith on the campus(lied to the public) until finally the town exploded in violence with two people dying and hundreds being injured and the need to call in 16,000 federal troops to restore order.

He did send troops against George Wallace in 1963(Wallance was another governor of Alabama who among his many campaign slogans promised "Segregation then, Segregation now, Segregation forever". This act against Wallace is hardly admirable when one understands Kennedy's views on the Civil Rights Act Bill were "the minimum we can ask for and the maximum we can stand behind" -page 518 Richard Reeves, President Kennedy: Profile of Power. Where he only wanted to give over what was needed to cool the Blacks while not fomenting the Whites against his reelection.


So can we put to rest the idea he was a "Champion" of Civil Rights.


Reagan appointed the first Female justice to SCOTUS.
well thats just about the only thing Reagan did I cant critique with reckless abandon.

He sent us to the moon.
Case closed

[Ripoll]

DOnt forget cheating on your wife, you forgot an inability to remain loyal to the one person on earth you swore to be loyal to util the day you died.
Go!!!! Kennedy.

JFK bumbled with the soviets, lost Cuba and set up a situation where ending the hostility with Cuba would nigh impossible though Castro had originally wanted the US as its Patron not the USSR.

Also with regards to Civil Rights, through most of presidency, and I mean MOST he did nothing for Civil Rights movement, he barely even mentioned it. He avoided like the plauge for fear it would collapse his hopes for reelection, or serve to alienate Southern Congressmen whom he needed to get legislation pushed through on other issues he deemed more important than Civil Rights...which was just about every other issue.

The Freedom Riders occured in 1961, thats during Kennedy's presidency. What did he do? Took Bobby Kennedy's advice sent some US Marshalls to protect the freedom riders then the moment they were out of IMMEDIATE danger he handed over all authority to the ALABAMA Governor John Patterson, thats the same Governor who during his campaign linked crime to desegregation and associated the NAACP with gangsters. As you might guess the mob who saught to kill the Freedom Riders, no one was prosecuted.

When Martin Luther King asked Kennedy to meet the Freedom Riders - HEROES of the Civil Rights movement... Kennedy flatly refused.

1962 Mississippi University a Black man(James Meredith) attempted to register at the school and was blocked by then Governor Ross Barnet (infamously Racist even then).
Kennedy didnt want a spectacle like Eisenhower's Little Rock(a brave move, sending troops to make sure people knew Segregation was OVER) the hand wringing Kennedy wanted to use as little presidential power as he could lest he be too associated with Civil Right movement. He lied and claimed that all well with Meredith on the campus(lied to the public) until finally the town exploded in violence with two people dying and hundreds being injured and the need to call in 16,000 federal troops to restore order.

He did send troops against George Wallace in 1963(Wallance was another governor of Alabama who among his many campaign slogans promised "Segregation then, Segregation now, Segregation forever". This act against Wallace is hardly admirable when one understands Kennedy's views on the Civil Rights Act Bill were "the minimum we can ask for and the maximum we can stand behind" -page 518 Richard Reeves, President Kennedy: Profile of Power. Where he only wanted to give over what was needed to cool the Blacks while not fomenting the Whites against his reelection.


So can we put to rest the idea he was a "Champion" of Civil Rights.


Reagan appointed the first Female justice to SCOTUS.
well thats just about the only thing Reagan did I cant critique with reckless abandon.

He sent us to the moon.
Case closed

THE MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

[Divitaen]

John F Kennedy went to the moon, prevented a nuclear war, used his executive powers to prevent segregation and racism, and the time period he was president in was the Era of social responsibility.

Prevented a nuclear war/almost caused one. Whatsa difference really?... Okay, yeah, he did stand down the Russians.

To be fair Reagan antagonised the Soviets so much with this SDI, Able Archer, invasion of Grenada, bombing of Libya and the funding of the mujahidin in Afghanistan that has now created so much trouble in the Middle East. Oh, and don't forget the Iran-Contra scandal, over which the US was sued by Nicaragua for the rapes, murders and lootings promoted by the funding of the Contra militants.

Kennedy's foreign policy wasn't great, but it was far from Reagan's immorality and hawkish militancy. At the very least he did not try and aggravate the Soviets over the creation of the Berlin Wall, recognising it as a necessary compromise between complete free immigration and the Soviets original plan of chasing America out of West Berlin, resisting pressure from US officials to confront the Soviets over something they had a right to do. At the very least he averted nuclear war over Cuba. I think on foreign policy Kennedy is a clear winner.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Kennedy's dad bought him the election, he made some awful decisions, and he did some good things.

Reagan did some really bad things, lied to Congress and the American people, yet is inexplicably popular.

They both have undue prominence partly for being shot at.

Personally I think Clinton is the standout US President of the last fifty years.

[Hoyteca]

Let's see:
JFK kept Soviet nukes out of Cuba. He played a huge part in getting man on the moon, which pushed the limits of human genius and technology as well as greatly expanded our knowledge of the early solar system.

He was also a war hero. After his boat got torpedoed and sunk in WWII, he managed to safely pull a guy to shore. Keep in mind he had back and breathing problems and had to lie his way INTO the military.

He also had some flaws, mostly woman-related.

Reagan was a movie star, which helped him gain his famous charisma. He suckered the Soviets into what was essentially a "dick-measuring contest", a contest that helped speed up the collapse of the USSR.

He is also responsible for "trickle-down", which, like Communism, works better in paper than in practice. Like Communism, it also only works if people like sharing. It fails to take into account people who got rich by paying as little as possible to as few people as possible. Finally, like Communism, it's the favored economic principle of people who are as far from moderate as possible.

[Forsher]

I don't really care for either but both are extremely over-rated. Reagan's reputation is helped by being in charge during important developments. Kennedy's reputation was greatly improved by being assassinated before he could do any more bad stuff (similar to how Wacko Jacko disappeared overnight).

[Stahn]

Both overrated but Reagan much more so than Kennedy IMHO.

[Sasutary Island]

I like Kennedy more 'coz of the way he spoke, both his accent and his way with words.

[Harkback Union]

And again, you just keep repeating corporate propaganda. You have so little understanding of economics you fall for their cheap lies.

1. Most Patents in US don't come from Useful R&D, especially in biotech sector. What they do is to patent DNA code extracted from various animals and plants to secure future profits. That's the stupidest thing humanity could focus its efforts on ATM. The Russians were always better at Space-tech. Their rockets are cheaper and more reliable, FACT. US has worst Education system in the developed world. Its students are among the stupidest in every area, look it up. Healthcare likewise and no, Not all Americans have Health care by law. What shitty service is offered does not qualify as health care by rational standards. Its average income is NOT the highest in the world, especially if you weight it, then it is among the lowest in the developed world again. Income inequality, Debt, Crime rate and lifespan is nearing 3rd world levels. The US is the single shittiest place to live in the west. Nowhere in the UK, Germany, Belgium or even in notorious Japan, France or Russia will you find slums of such poverty and size as in America. ONE OUT OF 30 KIDS are HOMELESS. Cuba has lover child poverty rate then that. Finally, No, US pharma is the worst in the world. It may be the biggest, but its products are shit. 33% of the world's medicine is consumed in America, most of that medicine produced in America. EU uses a fraction of that with a higher population and its citizens are far healthier. Look it up if you didn't learn it in school. I did.

As I explained, Financial sector is useless for global economy. It merely leeches off real economy to divert profits. You could have all of wall street relocated into Zimbabwe with little trouble and then Zimbabwe would be the wealthiest place in the world. You don't need big education to speculate with stocks and do banking... or you could just have wall street blown off the map. As long as you carry on as if nothing happened, economy would actually improve as it wouldn't have to sustain the parasites and pay for financial bubbles. You don't have to take a course in economics to know that Gambling won't do any good for the economy.

2. Your logic fails. You don't address ANY of my Issues. You tell my I'm wrong, You don't tell me why. That's typical though.

3. You don't find my economists credible? Well I don't find yours, nor do 90% of the world community. Go anywhere outside the western world and they will tell you that Capitalism Fails. People live in utter misery thanks to capitalism and they aspire to socialist Ideals. Wherever the people actually manage to implement those, Living Standards skyrocket. Venezuela, Vietnam, Cuba and even the slightly socialist pre-revolution Libya are fine examples. They are far above their Capitalist neighbors in every area, despite their poor start.

while If people took time to inquire into the policies of "communist" Cambodia And modern (1990-) North Korea, they would learn that they are/were actually fascist autocracies with little to no concern for equality and worker rights.

Nah screw this, I don't have time for you as said before. Go read history, Go Read Das Kapital. Then Try to find where Marx is wrong, it won't be easy. CREDIBLE ECONOMIST say he is right. CREDIBLE ECONOMIST say Chinese system is far superior to US. Their Growth is sustainable. US growth is not. Its just the financial system bubbling and The us is literally ripping of the world with its massive debt. They give the world money they will never be able to repay. They give they import much more then they export. They pollute, They destroy, They destabilize the world. The US is the greatest threat to world peace by any credible global study. Name one which says otherwise.
Also clear out you dictionary. You can't even define some elementary words.

And here is one economic article that by analysis concludes that soviet economy is more efficient:
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ ... s-the-west
Despite political and historical meddling, which pretty much accounts for the famines and destruction. Try to find the error in their logic. I assure you can't. Anyone who's not payed to lie by big business will tell you that a planned economy is more efficient then a non-planned one. Western societies had the most efficient economies when they got the closest to soviet style economies, FACT!... and The price system does not send goods where they are needed. It sends goods where the rich want them to go.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. You got karl marx, and I got every notable politician who has actually contributed to modern day mixed market capitalism. Just gonna have to tell all the cubans drowning trying to swim to America they're wrong, cuba's great! Cuba is a paradise. I'll also tell that to all the citizens that lived under communist rule in east berlin who rushed over to west and constantly strived to free themselves from oppressive fascist regimes.

Nope, Communism wins! Definitely because communistic countries are leading powers in the world. America is bad, because self hating Americans who live in America believe it to be bad. They've never lived under communist rule, and they've never worn a military uniform for as much as they criticize our military heroes.

They've never invented a pill for as much as they criticize the pharmaceutical industry, and they've certainly never held any productive jobs in the economic field for as much as they have to say about "communism".

No, You got every notable politician who has actually contributed to modern day mixed market capitalism? That's the worst argument I ever heard... and Its not just Karl Marx, Its every economist ever who wasn't payed to lie by big business or were part of big business themselves. I took the time to sit through a course in economics and our professor explained in detail how Modern day Neo-liberal economists are full of shit. Their arguments are devoid of proper reasoning and go against the scientific method, just like any other scientists on the payroll of corporations, like climate change denier "climatologists" and conservative "sociologists". The real academic society, not the one shown on Corporate media is not on your side in this argument.

Did people try to leave the eastern block and Cuba? Sure! But where they ordinary workers and farmers? Hell no. They were remnants of the upper class or brainwashed by western propaganda. I had my uncle leave for America from the eastern block full of hope. He came back utterly disappointed and never wished to go back again. He worked awfully demanding jobs that payed little to no money before He lost his eyesight thanks to the shitty healthcare which didn't bother to treat him. He then was left homeless and only managed to come back home to the east with money my family saved up... and its not just him. Most immigrants have a shitty time in America as America sucks for the ordinary man. It sucks much more then Cuba or The eastern block even with the political repression. No homelessness, No crime, Free and decent healthcare, decent wages, No overtime, No unemployment. If there is any reason to go to Immigrate into america is if your country is a puppet of American big business like Mexico.

And the American economy has no future. The massive debt it accumulated can wreck its entire financial sector. I've heard dozens of respected economist scrambling to warn the world about the collapse of the dollar, which will very probably happen in a decade. China, OPEC, Russia, Latin America, they all getting rid of their dollar while the FED is printing it like crazy. Its only a matter of time before it becomes worthless.

Soviets medicine was also above western standards. It was limited and made with inferior technology and infrastructure but were still better thanks to Soviet economic mentality which aimed for utility instead of profit. Soviets achieved the same health standards with far less medicine then the US and Europe. Again, go check the statistics if you don't believe me.

[England-Ireland]

reagan