The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Conserative Morality]

Can't be the only one otherwise surely it wouldn't have been possible to vote Leave.

IIRC 45-64 had a plurality in favor of Leave. And I wouldn't be so certain. Voting demographics tend to skew heavily towards the elderly - at least in the US, the rate of the top voting age bracket compared to the lowest was something like 20% to 60%. So despite comparable populations, voter turnout gives the elderly a larger voice.

[Greater Mackonia]

Who by? The EU is not a command economy, they cannot magically direct many different businesses to start buying from somebody else because of wrongthink in Albion.

They don't need to, they can put up standard rate tariffs and businesses going for cheaper product will go for one where they don't need to pay tax on. Yes trade will continue, but it will be at a much slower pace.

Demand does not spring out of thin air, for some time those German car manufacturers will see a glut in profits.

Yes while the banking sector will be glad to ensure London isn't financial centre anymore; also so will the British companies. Who will be able to hold out longer? Economy of $18.5 trillion or one of $2.849 trillion?

Now given the EU's current economic situation do you think they can afford for things to get worse? For slower growth, perhaps unemployment amidst refugees, greek bailout III and general economic malaise?

Yes most certainly they can. UK economy is likely to be in recession, longer UK economy declines - ie. longer a deal isn't reached more likely possibility of fracture in UK as areas start considering and demanding independence. Again which economy can absorb the shock better - the larger one.

Yes, I entirely accept your point: the EU was designed to be a single trade bloc for collective bargaining, that does not necessarily mean the design will work. They sell lots of crap to us, they need our purchases, they are desperate to hold the union together and bring the crisis to a clean conclusion. We've taken the leap, we may as well stick to our guns.

1. Firstly that is silly logic, we'd need to continue buying lot of those stuff; more important factor is what percentage do we sell to them vs them to us. We sell ~45% of our stuff to them, they sell ~8ish% (I think it was, maybe few points up or down) to us. How long can we sustain significant decline in 45% of our sales vs they can in 8ish% of their sale? More diverse source of income = less importance of individual nations and vice versa.
2. Going by that flawed logic, we'd never get a trade deal with EU because it'd be vetoed by most of the countries who make up the EU. We have trade surplus with them, therefore it stands to reason (based on your logic) that they'd care less about that trade or even be opposed to it. Therefore they'd veto any such deals and since every EU country has a veto; we'd be fucked.

1: I was referring largely to their exports to us, not our exports to them. We tariff them back and they'll loose more. We'll presumably have access to importing lots of lovely cheap dodgy crap from the third world as well at this point.
2: British spirit. Its not like the city will suddenly become a ghost town, while we're negotiating we can keep the markets duped with confidence tricks, encourage them to bet on various favourable outcomes, stabilities and the like.
3: I've said it before, internal-UK separatism is utterly irrelevant unless the UK government is stupid enough to make it an issue.
4: We'll both have tariffs on the other, and, I'm sure you're tired of hearing this and I'm sure its bollocks - the cost of tariffs will be equal to that of EU membership fees, presumably we can use the money previously tied up in fees to subsidise certain imports to keep ourselves afloat. We have a two year period of stability for negotiation, during this we can lull the market into a false sense of security. Trump getting in will help as he said we're at the front of the queue for trade deals.
5: If they are selling stuff to us, presumably they would care more about it as it benefits them, gives their people jobs, money in their economies. Do show me to be wrong. The economic argument is not the central issue of this matter anyway.

[Imperializt Russia]

"Back in my day, we used to blame Europe"

I've seen lots of documentaries about medieval England. I think the default action in times of crisis and/or boredom is to attack France.

But the carrier gap!

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Clearly you never heard of evolution.

Evolution requires adaptation. Requires change. But the EU is not adapting at all. It is just spinning its wheels.

When the world changes the species that does not change with it goes extinct.

May I remind you of the history of the European Union?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... pean_Union

The EU is constantly evolving, changing, adapting. The Treaty of Lisbon in 2005 was the last major treaty change. There was the super-expansion of 2004 and 2007, the Court of Justice of the European Union is constantly spitting out new jurisprudence, the members are moving ever-closer together, new regulations are written every day. But hey, if you only look at the flag and at the name, I guess not much has changed over the past ten years.

[Gauthier]

Those arguments are clearly bollocks.

The Euro is literally Hitler.

So what's the current pound-to-Hitler exchange rate?

[Uxupox]

Slow and steady ultimately doesn't win the race in real life.

Yes, it does. Slow and steady does a better job than quick and violent, at least.

Quick and violent is what got us to this point in day. Slow and steady speaks of tradition that should be discarded if a better method is currently available. The British voted for what they think is the better method.

[Conserative Morality]

So what's the current pound-to-Hitler exchange rate?

Dropping fast.

[Conscentia]

I can sympathise with that. Thing is though, I live here... I'd rather not burn down my house while I'm still in it.

I live here too, y'know.

Yes, I do know. I was just explaining why I don't want to see it all burn.

[The East Marches]

Fuck the rights of those who are over 40+ years old. Amiright?

No. But the young people should have more rights. They are the future. They are those people who should make and create our future. And our world.

What do you mean?

[Souseiseki]

[Quaxoglia]

No. But the young people should have more rights. They are the future. They are those people who should make and create our future. And our world.

Dangerous thoughts.

Yes I know, but it's so unfair for the british youth.
I'm very sad. I truly love the UK. I'm shocked, I'm affraid for the future.
I'm 18... I feel very sad and I don't like to live in this kind of world anymore.
A devided world, a world full of war, full of hate, full of unfairness,...
I can cry. I feel so angry...

[Novus America]

Evolution requires adaptation. Requires change. But the EU is not adapting at all. It is just spinning its wheels.

When the world changes the species that does not change with it goes extinct.

May I remind you of the history of the European Union?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... pean_Union

The EU is constantly evolving, changing, adapting. The Treaty of Lisbon in 2005 was the last major treaty change. There was the super-expansion of 2004 and 2007, the Court of Justice of the European Union is constantly spitting out new jurisprudence, the members are moving ever-closer together, new regulations are written every day. But hey, if you only look at the flag and at the name, I guess not much has changed over the past ten years.

Umm all that you talk about occurred 10 years ago. There needs to be a treaty change, not just more red tape regulation.

[Tekania]

By throwing away everything that the 'establishment' did change over the past sixty years. That's not progress. Progress is slow and steady.

er... slow and steady got us from steam engines to slightly more efficient steam engines: up to a point of rather diminishing returns. Thankfully someone quickly came up with the idea of the combustion engine. And then someone else quickly came up with the jet engine.

Combustion engines were not something one person suddenly came up with.... combustion engines developed over more than a millennia. You would have done better at slow steady study of a subject as oppposed to rapid blurting out of whatever random (and wrong) throught that popped in your head to attempt to bolster your now failed point.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The economic argument is not the central issue of this matter anyway.

It's not?

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Yes, it does. Slow and steady does a better job than quick and violent, at least.


Well, how long did it take to get from steam engines to combustion engines and jet engines? Anyway, we're not talking about technological progress here, but political progress. The French Revolution didn't do jack for republican states in Europe. It was the slow liberalisation that followed. Feudalism wasn't broken up by violent revolution, but by slow-working market forces. Eventually, Reaganomics didn't kill the Soviet Union, but slow economic reform. The EU wasn't built in a day, rather it evolved. You can't ask problems to change overnight. It takes dedicated hard work and patience, lest the whole idea explodes in your face.

Arguably the end of feudalism needed the French Revolution. The outcome of which is highly debated.

And yes, you need evolution. People in the UK wanted the EU to improve. They turned against the EU after the EU refused to change.

But the EU has given Cameron a deal (one they shouldn't have given him) already. The EU changes all the time, in a thousand intricate and difficult ways.

Did the French Revolution end feudalism in Britain?

[Imperializt Russia]

(Image)

"Mrs Sturgeon? There are some police here. They want to talk about irregularities in the education budget"

[Anywhere Else But Here]

Arguably the end of feudalism needed the French Revolution. The outcome of which is highly debated.

And yes, you need evolution. People in the UK wanted the EU to improve. They turned against the EU after the EU refused to change.

But the EU has given Cameron a deal (one they shouldn't have given him) already. The EU changes all the time, in a thousand intricate and difficult ways.

Did the French Revolution end feudalism in Britain?

Feudalism was already over in Britain.

[Greater Mackonia]

What's this I'm reading then? I think you did know how to respond, it just wasn't a very good response. Poor show.

No, I'm pretty sure not knowing how to respond does not preclude a confused and questioning response; rather, I think it follows quite naturally.

I'm not racist, I'm an equal-opportunities elitist.

Is that what you tell yourself while you shout racial epithets at all the scary non-white people who live in your town?

Where's your evidence for me doing that? You're producing nothing but speculative rambling. Nothing I said to Pedro was in any fashion a racially denigrative comment. Non-white people are just as scary as white people.

If it was going to be any age, it would be 65+. You know, the only age bracket that voted majority leave.

Now apply that argument in the context of welfare and its suddenly anathema. And nobody 'suppressed' the youth vote.

Are they all murderers and traitors?
Off with their heads then. If not? No.

He's probably a Rees-Mogg.

I have nothing to do with that dodgy clan.

[Uxupox]

Dangerous thoughts.

Yes I know, but it's so unfair for the british youth.
I'm very sad. I truly love the UK. I'm shocked, I'm affraid for the future.
I'm 18... I feel very sad and I don't like to live in this kind of world anymore.
A devided world, a world full of war, full of hate, full of unfairness,...
I can cry. I feel so angry...

The majority voted for this.

Life is unfair, you just got to make the best of it.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Some Leave voters have now changed their minds. They said that they were protest voting but thought that Remain would win anyway. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/leave-voters-changed-minds-voting-8275841#rlabs=2%20rt$category%20p$2

If you didn't want leave to win, why on earth did you vote leave?

[Quaxoglia]

Yes I know, but it's so unfair for the british youth.
I'm very sad. I truly love the UK. I'm shocked, I'm affraid for the future.
I'm 18... I feel very sad and I don't like to live in this kind of world anymore.
A devided world, a world full of war, full of hate, full of unfairness,...
I can cry. I feel so angry...

The majority voted for this.

Life is unfair, you just got to make the best of it.

If this kind of world continues, I'll give myself up as a candidate for the Mars-mission.
I'm really sick of this hatefull world.

[Vajorr]

Some Leave voters have now changed their minds. They said that they were protest voting but thought that Remain would win anyway. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/leave-voters-changed-minds-voting-8275841#rlabs=2%20rt$category%20p$2

If you didn't want leave to win, why on earth did you vote leave?

Because obviously one vote within millions won't make a difference duh.

[Novus America]

Arguably the end of feudalism needed the French Revolution. The outcome of which is highly debated.

And yes, you need evolution. People in the UK wanted the EU to improve. They turned against the EU after the EU refused to change.

But the EU has given Cameron a deal (one they shouldn't have given him) already. The EU changes all the time, in a thousand intricate and difficult ways.

Did the French Revolution end feudalism in Britain?

The EU barely gave Cameron anything. And that uncompromising attitude, "one they shouldn't have given him" cause this in the first place. Again a few little changes is not what people want. They want real changes. The EU has fundamental problems a few more regulations will not fix.

The French Revolution certainly placed pressure on the UK.

[Gauthier]

Some Leave voters have now changed their minds. They said that they were protest voting but thought that Remain would win anyway. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/leave-voters-changed-minds-voting-8275841#rlabs=2%20rt$category%20p$2

If you didn't want leave to win, why on earth did you vote leave?

Like I said in another reply post, they wanted to watch the world burn but assumed they'd never catch on fire themselves.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Where's your evidence for me doing that? You're producing nothing but speculative rambling. Nothing I said to Pedro was in any fashion a racially denigrative comment. Non-white people are just as scary as white people.

What's funny is that you keep calling me Pedro when my name isn't Pedro.

Then again, what can I expect from an edgy poster on a forum?