The UK Referendum on Membership of the European Union

[Soldati Senza Confini]

But of course, economics don't matter. All that mattered is telling a big "fuck you" to the Secular Humanists *nods*

Social Humanists dearie. You seem rather hung up about this. Not at all amused really.

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

[Neu Leonstein]

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

[Souseiseki]

And how will they sell that to their own manufacturers?

we will be replaced

We both have something to loose, if we just stick down an independent trade deal on the table and refuse to budge, they might blink first.

i'm getting really sick of hearing stuff like this. the EU will not blink first. why? because they are a massive trade bloc with an economy rivaling the united states. the entire point of the EU is to make their negotiating position stronger against outside parties, which we now are. we are one country against a massive block of 28 countries. we are massively disadvantaged. they take magnitudes more punishment than we can.

[Novus America]

Well depending on the trade agreements it might have a better regulatory structure. Investors are not big on the EU's red tape. The EU puts out a lot of shit regulations.

The red tape thing is overdone. The EU attracts massive foreign investment, and the rules are for the most part not that bad. If you look at things like "ease of doing business", then the UK tends to rank higher than other big EU countries - but not by much. Not enough to make you think its really going to make much of a difference. Especially when you consider the trade-off between that easier business you're doing and the size of the market. If you're talking a non-EEA scenario, then the potential market for a business based in the UK has just been cut from 740 million to 64 million. You'd need a lot of red tape to make up for that.

The EU is obviously doing something wrong, considering its stagnatation and high unemployment.

The EU has problems. Is the trade off worth it? Maybe not. Again I do not know yet.

And plenty of smaller countries do just fine outside of the EU.

[Greater Mackonia]

Social Humanists dearie. You seem rather hung up about this. Not at all amused really.

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

But you were repeating them incorrectly, I never said 'Secular Humanists', I said 'Social Humanists'. Own up to your mistakes. Improve your reading comprehension. Then again, Latinos y'know?

[Kriga]

Well you clearly have no sense of understanding as to why the state is important. And no, i am not a communist or a socialist. I simply believe in order and the state's role in taking care of its people. It is a duty of the state to do so.

Abolishing it leads to chaos and anarchy.

From what evidence do you make that claim?

it's not happening the EU wants to disincentivize people leaving in the hopes of getting sweet deals and everyone is already sick of the UK being a special snowflake and now fucking things up even more because they want to even specialer aand they are not going to negotiate a special liwwle deal just for us

And how will they sell that to their own manufacturers? We both have something to loose, if we just stick down an independent trade deal on the table and refuse to budge, they might blink first.

But most likely I agree, whomever is doing the negotiating will leap on the EEA first, which would make Brexit in vain but for the chain effect it might start.

There might not even be an EU in ten years time. We just need to bear the worst of the brunt.

Well...just look at the debacle of a Revolution that took place in Russia. Or better yet, look at the French Revolution. Sure, the monarchy was corrupt, but the fear and anarchy it led to was not worth the price. Had it been handled differently, with order restored quickly, perhaps the situation would have been different.

But no. Radical ideologues like Robespierre had to foster fear and terror to exert their will. Their attempts to create a new order all ultimately failed, and a status quo always returned. With Order and peace.

Abolishing it will only repeat the cycle. Hopeless radical takes advantage and abolishes the existing state's institutions, only to try and transform it into a state of his own design (or his revolutionary creed). Said ideologue and his supporters are defeated, and before you know it, pragmatism and order is back in the fold.

Abolishing the state has never helped man. To say so otherwise, is the rambling of radicals and hopeless idealists who believe they can fight the system with passionate dedication to whatever godforsaken ideology they adhere to.

[Hurdegaryp]

Social Humanists dearie. You seem rather hung up about this. Not at all amused really.

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

That does seem like a logical conclusion, but it's too soon to be certain of that already.

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

The longer the Tories take to get their shit together, the longer those EU leaders have to cultivate a grudge. Excellent move.

[Arkinesia]

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

Immediately leaving the office would leave the country in total disarray and ruin it financially for decades.

[Tobiasia]

Three cheers to the ungrateful fuckers in the UK who are happy to take regional funding from the EU, get a solid price for their exports, be free of import tariffs while enjoying unrestricted travel but decide to maintain an out of date mindset.

The UK isn't a superpower, and it hasn't been for a long time - the EU has nothing to do with it. I've been on IRC with TNP all day, and Discord with TSP and Kingdom of Alexandria and I've been trying to come to terms with this result. I've cried, I've screamed and I've raged so much. I've gotten into an argument with my dad who voted leave, I've commiserated with friends who voted remain.

I'm heartbroken. I don't post here in General normally but I need an outlet or I'm worried I may get too mouthy IRL and start a fight over this.

No one I've spoken to can believe this. From any of those regions, to friends I know from RL... this result blindsided us. 52% of our people voted for xenophobic and racism, for isolationism, for recession.

Cameron's resignation comes with the Tories shifting right wing - with Boris fuckface Johnson already positioning himself to take control. I can't deal with this, and I don't know what I can actually do that is constructive. Hope isn't lost, Parliament has to pass an Act of Parliament to formally take effect of the resignation clause - but if that act is voted down, then were do we sit? There is -HOPE- if that happens, hope that GB can still keep itself in a semi-stable position, hope for our personal unions with Scotland and NI. This may be the end of the United Kingdom as we know it, and I am scared of what I will wake up and see in the morning.

I share the sentiment. We cannot just let our country be governed by fascists and far-right idiots.


Bored Johnson would destroy our country, which is why I am put in the awful position of actually cheering Osbourne on. As a left-wing voter, this is naturally painful.

[Imperializt Russia]

Do you have a link?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/06 ... ax-sot.cnn

At first glance, you'd think he's part of the remain camp.

Completely disagree. First, that was at 11am, he'd probably not slept. Also, it's been a long and vicious campaign. I think he's just sombre and tired.

[Souseiseki]

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

But you were repeating them incorrectly, I never said 'Secular Humanists', I said 'Social Humanists'. Own up to your mistakes. Improve your reading comprehension. Then again, Latinos y'know?

i'm still waiting to hear what a social humanist even is

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

But you were repeating them incorrectly, I never said 'Secular Humanists', I said 'Social Humanists'. Own up to your mistakes. Improve your reading comprehension. Then again, Latinos y'know?

It's cute that you think I made a mistake just because I didn't quote you word for word.

I don't have to.

[Arkinesia]

Then again, Latinos y'know?

what the fuck dude

[Hurdegaryp]

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

Immediately leaving the office would leave the country in total disarray and ruin it financially for decades.

But isn't that what the English voted for with fiery passion?

[Oneracon]

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

For what it's worth, CBC here is saying the same thing in their analysis.

As for the EU being in limbo... haven't they already called a leaders' summit that excludes the UK?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

That does seem like a logical conclusion, but it's too soon to be certain of that already.

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

The longer the Tories take to get their shit together, the longer those EU leaders have to cultivate a grudge. Excellent move.

Oh believe me, at the rate this is going, my money might have been invested in the best places ever to be in right now.

[Imperializt Russia]

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

Immediately leaving the office would leave the country in total disarray and ruin it financially for decades.

No it wouldn't. We have such a thing as a deputy prime minister, and Parliament's going on summer break soon anyway. We'd be functionally leaderless regardless.

[Arkinesia]

Immediately leaving the office would leave the country in total disarray and ruin it financially for decades.

But isn't that what the English voted for with fiery passion?

Well…yeah, but, they didn't even know what the EU was (based on search info Google is releasing) so idk.

[Tobiasia]

Social Humanists dearie. You seem rather hung up about this. Not at all amused really.

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

Yes you are. America's Dow Jones Industrial Average crashed 2.5%, about the same as the FTSE in Britain. In a global economy, everyone will be ripped apart by this decision.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

By the way, top EU leaders are said to be furious with Cameron for dragging out his resignation for another three months. Spiegel reports (German only at this point) that they think calling the referendum was a dumb ploy he engaged in for domestic politics reasons, which now backfired on him. And instead of going straight away so that negotiations can start, he'll now be involved in three months of Tory-internal wheeling and dealing until a new leader is chosen who then has to get his/her act together before negotiations can even start. In the meantime, the rest of the EU is left in limbo waiting. So they're not impressed - I wouldn't expect whoever will represent the UK to have an easy time of it.

And after the Conservatives are done wrangling, they'll still need the support of Parliament. Both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. So, that's three months of Tory wrangling, plus another two months of parliamentary debate, before the then-PM can send the article 50-request to the commission. Then, they'll have two years of discussion before Britain can finally leave. In the meantime, the outcome of the referendum could've switched a hundred times over because of the small margin. This whole thing ended up being the least exciting outcomes of all the possible bad outcomes.

[Greed and Death]

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2016/06 ... ax-sot.cnn

At first glance, you'd think he's part of the remain camp.

Completely disagree. First, that was at 11am, he'd probably not slept. Also, it's been a long and vicious campaign. I think he's just sombre and tired.

they did stay up to 4 am for the results.

[Imperializt Russia]

But you were repeating them incorrectly, I never said 'Secular Humanists', I said 'Social Humanists'. Own up to your mistakes. Improve your reading comprehension. Then again, Latinos y'know?

i'm still waiting to hear what a social humanist even is

Yeah, I legit have no idea what that even could be.

[Arkinesia]

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

Yes you are. America's Dow Jones Industrial Average crashed 2.5%, about the same as the FTSE in Britain. In a global economy, everyone will be ripped apart by this decision.

2.5% on the DJIA is very different from 2.5% on the FTSE.

The DJIA is an absolutely massive index, the largest stock index in the world. It moves 2% pretty frequently.

[Greater Mackonia]

And how will they sell that to their own manufacturers?

we will be replaced

We both have something to loose, if we just stick down an independent trade deal on the table and refuse to budge, they might blink first.

i'm getting really sick of hearing stuff like this. the EU will not blink first. why? because they are a massive trade bloc with an economy rivaling the united states. the entire point of the EU is to make their negotiating position stronger against outside parties, which we now are. we are one country against a massive block of 28 countries. we are massively disadvantaged. they take magnitudes more punishment than we can.

Who by? The EU is not a command economy, they cannot magically direct many different businesses to start buying from somebody else because of wrongthink in Albion. Demand does not spring out of thin air, for some time those German car manufacturers will see a glut in profits. Now given the EU's current economic situation do you think they can afford for things to get worse? For slower growth, perhaps unemployment amidst refugees, greek bailout III and general economic malaise?

Yes, I entirely accept your point: the EU was designed to be a single trade bloc for collective bargaining, that does not necessarily mean the design will work. They sell lots of crap to us, they need our purchases, they are desperate to hold the union together and bring the crisis to a clean conclusion. We've taken the leap, we may as well stick to our guns.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Those were your words, I'm just repeating them back.

I don't have a dog in this fight, to be honest. I'm not gonna be hurt by Brexit since I am across the pond.

Yes you are. America's Dow Jones Industrial Average crashed 2.5%, about the same as the FTSE in Britain. In a global economy, everyone will be ripped apart by this decision.

This crash of Dow Jones is the same as we saw when Chinese industries were going through a hard time.

It really didn't do much for our domestic economy other than rising the prices of products by a few cents.

If it goes lower than it has right now, then it should be worrying to us Americans. But not right now.