How can you not be christian?

[The High Lizzleness]

Last I heard, god didn't write the bible, its was the priests who thought that was what god said, some of those priests could have lied, its very easy, like saying I'm an atheist when most know I'm a christian

Oh how convenient. Christians say that God doesn't condone killing, yet when the Bible shows God condoning killing, it was "just the writers" that said that, not God. Do Christians even know what they believe?

Pretty much. If the Bible is the only "proof" they have, and they say it is flawed, then it is completely illogical to say "God is true because the Bible says." They contradict themselves.

I believe that some of the old testament is total fuckin' bullshit, but the new testament is the most believable. Historians have matched up most of the events with events described by the Egyptians and other Middle Eastern Nations, including the crucifixion of Jesus. You can't deny that the new testament is based on pure fact if its actually matched up in history.When Paul went to Rome, that was recorded. Did you know Scientists actually reconstructed Jesus' face with the shroud he was buried in, also Scientist are looking for the Ark of the Covenant, to find the stone the ten commandments are inscribed on yet most of them don't believe in any religion. Tell me why they want it if they don't believe in it.

The important part- the miracles- have not been proven, to my knowledge. So they proved some guy named Jesus wandered around and preached- great. Now you have to prove he was the son of god. Otherwise, the Bible isn't trufax,

To the last part of your post: They want the truth. Scientists shouldn't let their biases in the way of their jobs. Truth is what is most important. Not that the Ten Commandments would prove that god was real. Moses could have always forged them on the rocks to make his followers easier to control. It happens. Of course, if they showed that they were formed in some advanced way, that would be different.

[2nd PLT]

I am still being ignored...

Hi 2nd PLT.

I wonder why I am being ignored.

I feel you pain, my friend. I am one of the only ones here using un-biased facts, and I'm getting skipped right over. It's NS, not Hollywood!

Thank you for noticing me, you two.

Now, does anyone have a comment on what I said? I'll go pick it up in a second.
EDIT:

I wish i could move stuff like this...
And this won't end well.
I can't be a christian because, every time I hear about the stories, I get the impossibly strong feeling that God, as Christians and Catholics know him, is evil, and the Devil is good.
And the being of evil shouldn't be good. Thus I remain Neo Pagan, in which there are a plethora of fates, one god to rule them, and the enemy you have no sympathy for, Angra Manryu, All evils in the world.

In the bible its against god to participate in ind of witchcraft and no satan is not good that is why he was casted out of heaven when he tried to question god. Alot of people dont believe because they tink the storys are all fairytales but no thier true and if you take a look at what the bible says about things that are going to happen they actually are happening yet the bible was written many many years ago so thats a reason. Also your pegan so im curious does that mean you worship satan or a witch god im sorry but im not familiar with it.

Alright, let me break this down.
1:You said Satan was cast out of heaven because he questioned god. That is why I think god is evil, because it sounds tyrannical to me. "NEVER QUESTION ME!" Sounds like something a Lawful Evil person would say. Plus, Satan's name, Lucifer is Latin for Light Bearer. Light is supposed to be good. It can also be construed as Christian god not wanting the people to be enlightened, which also sounds evil to me. I think god would want the people not to be sheep but to follow good for good's sake and not any reward.

2:No I don't worship Satan. That is a common misconception as Wiccan's have a horned god, which was ripped off by Christianity and painted as the devil. I worship god. God is god, that is it. I also believe in a plethora of fates that direct our lives under God's will. I have yet to name all the fates as I fear I could anger them by missing one, but they are Father Time, Mother Earth, Death, etc etc etc...

3:It's kinda hard to live without using magic when you are born with an innate ability in energy control, along with the ability to heal people and see into my own future with 100% accuracy. I can't prove any of this stuff to anyone, but I have enough proof for me to believe, and that is all that matters.

4:You do happen to know that most beliefs and rituals of,most if not all religions come from various pagan rituals right?

Also once, some christian recruiter (You know, one of those guys that goes around trying to make other people Christian) told me that, it was okay to kill in a war. That doesn't make sense to me because, how could god recognize nations? Why would he allow killing of any kind when he says "Thou shalt not kill" Nations are a product of man, why would god follow man's rules?[/quote]

There it is. Now...Any comments? Questions? Flames?

[Discipline Tunnels]

Op, are you twelve?

[Balantania]

I say there's no god because there's no evidence of a god. I don't do it to get away with murder or bang allot of chicks (not that I don't... the second one), but there's no real proof besides a book written by a bunch of people. By that case, Harry Potter is god.

Oh, and by the way, Christianity emerged from Judaism. It's just the alternate religion in which the followers of Jesus created after his death.

But see again the human mind is never going to be able to get facts about god, we only know what god wants us to know. Its all about faith you have ot have faith in god you cant try to look for facts you just have to believe and thats what god wants. he doesnt want to have to show himself so someone can have a fact that hes real instead he wants people on thier own free will to belive in him.

This right here proves that if god exists he is deliberately keeping humanity ignorant of the facts, a thing only a despot would do to keep his captive people under his control. He wants people to toil away all their lives trying to be a "good Christian" in order to go to happy magic land where everything is good, but the entire system is designed for you to fail and thus be doomed to eternal damnation and torture. In short your god is saying that we cannot have our cake and we cannot eat it because we have no cake and will only have cake if we serve him all our lives and then even then we may not receive cake.

Now on to the body of my response , I have below asked several questions about your God. As this is a discussion I would like you to discuss the questions below.

So we shall begin with the first of many questions, this will be the formation of the universe. Your bible states that the universe was made in seven days, now in this seven days god made light and land and all that. No mention to the construction of stars, black-holes,gravity,oxygen,any elements, and really anything that a group of old Romans could not think up when they wrote the "good book" in Rome 500 years after your god's death, does that mean they are insignificant?

Now I am not yet debating the writing of the bible but will instead point to when did this (creation) occur? The six thousand years your religion preaches or the several hundred million years science preaches? If the six thousand, what about the dinosaurs, what about the primordial soup? What about everything that dates past six thousand years? What of handyman and the rest of humanities ancestors? Are they lies? Myths perpetrated by the government or corrupt scientists?

This brings me to question two, what of creation? Did we evolve from Apes or were we constructed by some omni-present being who thoughtlessly made us, granted us the ability to choose and then demand our servitude without pondering the whole free choice ability? Tempted what he should have known to be a fail able being and then punished us for the shortcomings in his design?

Third question, let's talk about the priests shall we? Why would your god allow child molesters to clothe themselves with his "holy" name and then sexually violate young boys? Does your god condone this or is he powerless to affect the institution that furthers his cause? If he is powerless then that shows that the whole Catholic church system is a corrupt lie as they are not in touch with god if he cannot simply tell them, "Avoid having sex with small boys." If he is in touch then why does he not tell them, "Keep it in your pants."? That would suggest he condones that sort of thing and sir ask yourself, do you want your god alone with your children then?

Next question this one is always a favorite, Homosexuality. Your god hates Homosexuality that is a given glance above though, his church is filled with Homosexuals so he is quiet simply a hypocrite if he knows of his church. I was going to write a whole argument for this alone , but my above question serves my needs, instead apply the above situation to everyday life, why would god not just tell people, "Do not have gay sex, thank you."


Halo: Norigianally Norse, originally it was the wide brimmed straw hat Odin wore on his head. In popular art it was tilted upwards to view his one eyed face.
When the Christians reached Norse areas (Germania, Scandinavia, etc) in order to continue their conquest of all free thinking peoples they borrowed the halo to show that their God was just like Odin. This gradually turned to "Odin is lies." Do you acknowledge that Christianity stole many practices from Paganism as it spread?

Please answer my questions as I am keen on having a discussion like you requested in the OP.

Have you ever heard of free will go does not mess with free will thats why he doesnt stop catholic preitsts from raping small boys because they will recieve thier punishment when the time comes and no he doesnt keep people form facts its just people like you who rely on facts and need facts to belive in somthing rather tha have faith. And no idk if christianity stole ideas from pagans see im not trying to find loop holesand all of these wierd sources like people like you do to try and deny or make christianity seem bad i just simply belive in god, jesus who died for my sins and virgin marry.

[Blitzkrenia]

I am still being ignored...

Hi 2nd PLT.

I wonder why I am being ignored.

I feel you pain, my friend. I am one of the only ones here using un-biased facts, and I'm getting skipped right over. It's NS, not Hollywood!

Thank you for noticing me, you two.

Now, does anyone have a comment on what I said? I'll go pick it up in a second.

Considering you made only 3 meaningful posts here......

And one of them has been commented on. Look for it.

[Balantania]

Op, are you twelve?

no im 15

[Ramsetia]

I have no problem with god. It's his fan club I can't stand.

Personally, I'm not religious because I don't like the tendency of organised religion to squash and deny free will and free thought. There's plenty of other reasons, too.

I see and yes i dont like the people who try and press thier eligon upon other people like threatening that thier going to burn in hell if they dont belive because to be honest you have to belive in your heart that god is real you cant just be like "oh well so and so said im going to burn in hell for not being a christian so im a christian now." thats not how it works. And yes i dont like how so people made thier own religons split form other religons like prodestant chritsitans or roman catholics or just catholics and you get my point Im just a plain christian I belive in God and Jesus and that jesus ied on the cross for my sins and i believe in virgin marry.

You know, that makes you sound awfully hypocritical, because your words generally indicate that you're looking down on people who don't believe in your god.

And I'm not talking about the Schizms in the church, I'm talking about all churches, every single religion that tries to make you close off your mind and put metaphysical blinders around your eyes to keep you believing, even if there was proof that what they say isn't true.

Im not looking donw on anyone see i knew people would take what i said the wrong way, I said I believe in Jesus who died for my sins, I belive in my heavenly father God and i belive in the virgin marry. And i simply asked other people who said there wasnt a god or said they believed in thier certain god all i asked was why and then everyone took offence and accused me of looking down on thier religon. Its not like i said "oh your not a christian you dont belive in what i belive in so loks like your going to hell" i never tried to press my religon on to anyone i simply just aksed why people belived in what they said they did and then they took offence

Being criticised by someone with bad grammar might do it... but you, sir, have a discussion to attend to
viewtopic.php?p=1877811#p1877811

[The Amazing Wasteland]

I am still being ignored...

Hi 2nd PLT.

I wonder why I am being ignored.

I feel you pain, my friend. I am one of the only ones here using un-biased facts, and I'm getting skipped right over. It's NS, not Hollywood!

Thank you for noticing me, you two.

Now, does anyone have a comment on what I said? I'll go pick it up in a second.

To answer the post I think you are referring to: Religious people are highly hypocritical.

[Blitzkrenia]

Have you ever heard of free will go does not mess with free will thats why he doesnt stop catholic preitsts from raping small boys because they will recieve thier punishment when the time comes and no he doesnt keep people form facts its just people like you who rely on facts and need facts to belive in somthing rather tha have faith. And no idk if christianity stole ideas from pagans see im not trying to find loop holesand all of these wierd sources like people like you do to try and deny or make christianity seem bad i just simply belive in god, jesus who died for my sins and virgin marry.

Your only proof is frickin' "faith"?

[Discipline Tunnels]

no im 15

Okay. Here's my counter-arguement to everything you've said (everything I managed to read, you don't make use of paragraphs). It doesn't exist. /thread

[Tiintopia]

OP, would you like to borrow some punctuation?

",.'!?"

[Blitzkrenia]

OP, would you like to borrow some punctuation?

",.'!?"

And a spell-checker.

[Balantania]

I am still being ignored...

Hi 2nd PLT.

I wonder why I am being ignored.

I feel you pain, my friend. I am one of the only ones here using un-biased facts, and I'm getting skipped right over. It's NS, not Hollywood!

Thank you for noticing me, you two.

Now, does anyone have a comment on what I said? I'll go pick it up in a second.
EDIT:

I wish i could move stuff like this...
And this won't end well.
I can't be a christian because, every time I hear about the stories, I get the impossibly strong feeling that God, as Christians and Catholics know him, is evil, and the Devil is good.
And the being of evil shouldn't be good. Thus I remain Neo Pagan, in which there are a plethora of fates, one god to rule them, and the enemy you have no sympathy for, Angra Manryu, All evils in the world.

In the bible its against god to participate in ind of witchcraft and no satan is not good that is why he was casted out of heaven when he tried to question god. Alot of people dont believe because they tink the storys are all fairytales but no thier true and if you take a look at what the bible says about things that are going to happen they actually are happening yet the bible was written many many years ago so thats a reason. Also your pegan so im curious does that mean you worship satan or a witch god im sorry but im not familiar with it.

Alright, let me break this down.
1:You said Satan was cast out of heaven because he questioned god. That is why I think god is evil, because it sounds tyrannical to me. "NEVER QUESTION ME!" Sounds like something a Lawful Evil person would say. Plus, Satan's name, Lucifer is Latin for Light Bearer. Light is supposed to be good. It can also be construed as Christian god not wanting the people to be enlightened, which also sounds evil to me. I think god would want the people not to be sheep but to follow good for good's sake and not any reward.

2:No I don't worship Satan. That is a common misconception as Wiccan's have a horned god, which was ripped off by Christianity and painted as the devil. I worship god. God is god, that is it. I also believe in a plethora of fates that direct our lives under God's will. I have yet to name all the fates as I fear I could anger them by missing one, but they are Father Time, Mother Earth, Death, etc etc etc...

3:It's kinda hard to live without using magic when you are born with an innate ability in energy control, along with the ability to heal people and see into my own future with 100% accuracy. I can't prove any of this stuff to anyone, but I have enough proof for me to believe, and that is all that matters.

4:You do happen to know that most beliefs and rituals of,most if not all religions come from various pagan rituals right?

Also once, some christian recruiter (You know, one of those guys that goes around trying to make other people Christian) told me that, it was okay to kill in a war. That doesn't make sense to me because, how could god recognize nations? Why would he allow killing of any kind when he says "Thou shalt not kill" Nations are a product of man, why would god follow man's rules?

There it is. Now...Any comments? Questions? Flames?[/quote]

thast a good question and also all sins can be forgiven too so aslong as you ask god to forgive you for your sins then you will be ok plus it would only be really bad if you went over to another nation and you killed people and enjoyed it or just killed a child knowing you could get away wiht it. But like i said as long as you ask god for forgiveness he will forgive you of your sins.

[Sith Korriban]

It's the Virgin Mary. Not 'virgin marry'. For Frigg's sake, can't you get the name of your own bloody religious figure right?

[Ravea]

Have you ever heard of free will go does not mess with free will thats why he doesnt stop catholic preitsts from raping small boys because they will recieve thier punishment when the time comes and no he doesnt keep people form facts its just people like you who rely on facts and need facts to belive in somthing rather tha have faith. And no idk if christianity stole ideas from pagans see im not trying to find loop holesand all of these wierd sources like people like you do to try and deny or make christianity seem bad i just simply belive in god, jesus who died for my sins and virgin marry.

As I said before, how can you believe in a God who perpetrates mass killings and takes revenge on anyone who pisses him off, AND follow the pacifist teachings of Jesus Christ? It doesn't make sense at all.

[Happy Pandas]

At least the thread title isn't "How can you not be Christian?!"

[Discipline Tunnels]

For Frigg's sake, can't you get the name of your own bloody religious figure right?

He's not devoted, it's a psychological convenience tool.

[Rhodmhire]

Rhodmhire's Theory of General Morality and the Afterlife: Pt. I.

Introduction and Initial Postulations

Prior to any and all discussion, we must first establish this brief perspectives' postulations from which the presumptions, deductive reasoning, and various conclusions are built off of. To start, we obviously assume the two focal entities of good and evil are authentic and residing in some form in some area of existence, whatever that is to them. These entities are given the names, the singular good entity--The Trinity (God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit/Ghost) and the singular evil entity--the Devil (Satan, possibly an anti-Trinity of its own if the literal interpretation of Revelations is taken into account).

Basic Perspectives: The Trinity

We now consider how each views humanity. The Trinity, God, wants humanity to worship "Him," virtually without question, for approximately 50-85 years, more or less depending on where you're coming from. After 50-85 years of worship, in whichever forms you find suffice His desires, you are rewarded a timeless eternity of basically singing songs to Him. There are approximately four ways in which one achieves this Paradise:

1) Be the Trinity or a part of it.
2) Be a part of the system of various angels, cherubim, etc. that reside in this Paradise.
3) Live life without moral flaw(s); and/or offer consistent animal sacrifices until the day you die to forgive yourself for any abject behavior(s).
4) Be forgiven through Christ; such forgiveness atonement from his death, derived from a proclamation of some belief in him.

The first two options are implausible for a mortal human to achieve, and the third is irrational in the industrialized contemporary era for most people, especially the sacrifice aspect and as it has been forever, the objective moral perfection aspect.

Belief in Christ is simplistic, but it requires more than proclamations and words, but action. Various scholars agree that one must live life for Christ and not be a man of big words and little works, despite work itself not being sufficient to enter the Kingdom initially, as was presumed by many Jewish people for centuries prior to the birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The jist: God wants you to believe in His son and worship him as a part of the Trinity to be forgiven to achieve the Kingdom, where an eternity of song singing without time awaits you.

Pros:

-No sadness/anger.
-No time to act as a fetter to us.
-No Jews.
-A tight community.
-God to tell us if Bigfoot is real and if Santa was behind 9/11 or not.

Cons:

-Consistent one-sided emotion leads to blandness.
-One can't even fathom eternity, it has the potential to be boring.
-No Jews to make pecuniary jokes about.
-Communities tend to suck when tightly woven when one doesn't like people.
-God probably lies about these things.
-I don't like singing, or clouds.

Basic Perspectives: Satan

Now, let's consider Satan. Satan believes humans need to destroy one another--obliteration is the key to success. He wants us to express our dark desires, pursue the manifest evil tantalizing segments of life, and ultimately adhere to subjective morality as Rousseau would have had it be. Satan controls the fate of those in Hell, and God utilizes this image to paint an eternity of suffrage for not only Satan and his fallen angels, but those who reject God and face the "ultimate punishment" of spending eternity apart from him.

But, when we think about it, Satan is probably a pretty cool guy. I mean do you really think he'd have you blow people up just to poke you with a trident all of your life? And what about him? He's not immortal if God can kick his ass (or, so He says), so why should he waste the time he's likely bound to poking people's genitalia and various organs with his shiny trident.

He'd probably want us to get it on with various partners of the same and opposite sex, and I assume he'd definitely support homosexual/bisexual affairs, promiscuity, and abortions if it got to that point. He also probably has a boat that is buoyant in and doesn't disintegrate when put in lava, so that'd be pretty sweet.

Considering what it takes to achieve Inferno:

1) Being Satan.
2) Being a fallen angel.
3) Being a badass mother f**ker all your life and doing things to women you didn't think was possible with various gardening tools; or blowing stuff up.

It's nowhere near as complex, daunting, or grueling as we observe with the Judeo-Christian manner of going about things.

Pros:

-There's time, but it's all spent doing radical stuff.
-Lava boat paaaartay.
-Promiscuity to the extreme.
-If you're lucky, you'll catch Ozzy Osbourne, Marilyn Manson, and Layne Staley at the same time!
-Pain without death, ie. ultimate pranks.
-Liberal policy.

Cons:

-Probably some spiders.
-Hitler.
-I assume a lot of rappers will be down there waiting for me.
-Freddie Mercury is in Rock Heaven, and won't be there for contracting teh AIDz.
-God will probably wipe us out eventually, but then again we'll still have our music.

Conclusion:

Satan is a lot better than God, pleasing Satan is easier than pleasing God (and more fun), and your reward for pleasing Satan is doing what you did to please him for a few thousand years or an eternity depending on how you generally look at things.

You should do a lot of bad things to go to Hell before it freezes over when Sarah Palin wins the 2012 Election and the Mayans turn out to have been right all along almost at the same time.

This, Balantania, is how I can't be a Christian.

Because I'm better than Christians.

Rock on, please. kthxbai

[Balantania]

no im 15

Okay. Here's my counter-arguement to everything you've said (everything I managed to read, you don't make use of paragraphs). It doesn't exist. /thread

I really could care less to be honest considering its not a sin to forget to add paragraphs or have perfect puncuation also this is to discuss about other peoples religon not to criticize someone on grammar and thats my counter arguement to what you just said.

[Laos Refugees]

My question is how can you not be christian. People who are athiest, I believe say there is no god as an excuse for them to get away wiht something they know is a sin.
So, tribals in Africa must worship their gods because they want to get away with a sin in a religon they have never heard of in their entire lives? I like how you believe you know the morals of man.

Also Athiest who dont belive in god explain to me about ghosts then? I
I have never seen a ghost, and have debunked many ghost stories myself. I can change what you just said in the case of bigfoot. "Also Skeptics who don't believe in the loch ness monster explain to me about bigfoot then?"

Also people who belive Obama is the Anti-Christ, I can see this to some point because in the bible it says that the Anti-Christ will try to make peace wiht everyone and be a nice handsome smooth talker whihc obama is so yes i can see obama being the anti-christ.
.

Oh? So Obama is the first smooth talking, cute, peaceful guy? I'm sure people thought that of Jesus, a bunch of U.S Presidents, and their neighbors. So, shit, millions of people must be the Anti-Christ then, huh?

[Discipline Tunnels]

I really could care less to be honest considering its not a sin to forget to add paragraphs or have perfect puncuation also this is to discuss about other peoples religon not to criticize someone on grammar and thats my counter arguement to what you just said.

I did respond to your religion. I said... all that stuff you're talking about doesn't exist. But I'm pointing out to you, you'd be easier to "argue" with if people could easily read what you write.

[Rhodmhire]

no im 15

Okay. Here's my counter-arguement to everything you've said (everything I managed to read, you don't make use of paragraphs). It doesn't exist. /thread

I really could care less to be honest considering its not a sin to forget to add paragraphs or have perfect puncuation also this is to discuss about other peoples religon not to criticize someone on grammar and thats my counter arguement to what you just said.

You're going to have a fun time reading my theory, which I consider my input on this issue, in the case that you're 15 and you don't seem to be on the ball grammatically/spelling-wise.

[Balantania]

Have you ever heard of free will go does not mess with free will thats why he doesnt stop catholic preitsts from raping small boys because they will recieve thier punishment when the time comes and no he doesnt keep people form facts its just people like you who rely on facts and need facts to belive in somthing rather tha have faith. And no idk if christianity stole ideas from pagans see im not trying to find loop holesand all of these wierd sources like people like you do to try and deny or make christianity seem bad i just simply belive in god, jesus who died for my sins and virgin marry.

As I said before, how can you believe in a God who perpetrates mass killings and takes revenge on anyone who pisses him off, AND follow the pacifist teachings of Jesus Christ? It doesn't make sense at all.

Also keep in mind the people that were killed were sinners and he didnt just kill them because they sinned it was because the completely turned thier backs on him. For example you have a group of friends and you find out one friend dispises you and hates your guts would you continue to be freinds with him no you wouldnt you would not consider him a member in your group of friends anymore.

[Techno-Soviet]

I wish i could move stuff like this...
And this won't end well.
I can't be a christian because, every time I hear about the stories, I get the impossibly strong feeling that God, as Christians and Catholics know him, is evil, and the Devil is good.
And the being of evil shouldn't be good. Thus I remain Neo Pagan, in which there are a plethora of fates, one god to rule them, and the enemy you have no sympathy for, Angra Manryu, All evils in the world.

In the bible its against god to participate in ind of witchcraft and no satan is not good that is why he was casted out of heaven when he tried to question god. Alot of people dont believe because they tink the storys are all fairytales but no thier true and if you take a look at what the bible says about things that are going to happen they actually are happening yet the bible was written many many years ago so thats a reason. Also your pegan so im curious does that mean you worship satan or a witch god im sorry but im not familiar with it.

That entire bollocks post makes me think God is evil.

Its true, too. Look at what he did to Job.

[Avenio]

I am an atheist. I believe that the universe, though an inordinately complicated, interconnected and beautiful place, does not need a creator. Its processes, creation and ultimate destruction are explained well by rational, scientific means. The archaic conglomerate of bronze age desert shephards' morality tales that is Christianity, despite claims by its proponents to the contrary, shows no evidence whatsoever of being true, and, until evidence to the contrary exposes itself, I shall continue to treat it as it warrants; an ancient coping mechanism developed by the human mind to explain the world around it, long since obsoleted by science.

*Cough*

I apologise for the bump, but I'd be interested in what Balantania thinks about this.