Northern Ireland poll

[The Matthew Islands]

I don't live in NI so I can't make much of a judgement.
However, if I did live in NI I would likely be a unionist, and would probably vote for one of the unionist parties. However I don't know what each party is like with local issues in NI, so I couldn't say really.

[Saiwania]

So you're going to blame the modern unionists for something that happened hundreds of years ago?

Even though northern Ireland is their home, they're British by blood who still have more loyalty towards their home country. I am close to quitting my interest in Irish unification because it looks like the Irish people have given up on this fight for the most part. If they're content with the way things are now, who am I to try to tell them that it isn't over until they have all of their island back?

[Britannic Realms]

So you're going to blame the modern unionists for something that happened hundreds of years ago?

Even though northern Ireland is their home, they're British by blood who still have more loyalty towards their home country.

There's something wrong with feeling loyalty towards ones home? I'm also pretty sure that this British blood is pretty diluted after some many years.

[Mad Jack]

Yeah, only creepy British nationalits.

Nice to see the majority of Northern Irish people (including a majority of NI catholics) dismissed as 'creepy British nationalits'.

[EUstan]

Yeah, only creepy British nationalits.

Nice to see the majority of Northern Irish people (including a majority of NI catholics) dismissed as 'creepy British nationalits'.

All catholics are for seceding from UK, it is just that protestant colonist have majority in population.

[Aboras]

Nice to see the majority of Northern Irish people (including a majority of NI catholics) dismissed as 'creepy British nationalits'.

All catholics are for seceding from UK, it is just that protestant colonist have majority in population.

ALL Catholics? Come now.

[Britannic Realms]

Nice to see the majority of Northern Irish people (including a majority of NI catholics) dismissed as 'creepy British nationalits'.

All catholics are for seceding from UK, it is just that protestant colonist have majority in population.

Apparently, 52% of Catholics support the Union. So you're assumption is wrong.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 28265.html

[Mad Jack]

Nice to see the majority of Northern Irish people (including a majority of NI catholics) dismissed as 'creepy British nationalits'.

All catholics are for seceding from UK, it is just that protestant colonist have majority in population.

A majority of Catholics do not want to reunify with the ROI

[Aboras]

Good ol' facts, always quiets them.

[Nadkor]

Is there any "Left-wing Party Against Idiotic Ethno-Religious Divides"?

NI21, pretty much.

Who are, funnily enough, also who I'm going to be voting for. They're not out-and-out left-wing, unfortunately, but they're progressive which is at least a start.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well I'm from the Republic not Northern. No offense, but I still kinda think Ulster was a traitor (Back then, not now since most people on NS weren't alive in the day of the Irish a Civil War in 1922. Not even me). You never wanted to be taken over by the Normans, yet here you are wanting to stay with the UK.

So let me get this straight.
the county that doesn't openly revolt against the democratically elected government in order to found a state on racist and sectarian values are the traitors.
That's a novel way of thinking.

The problem is that the current situation in northern ireland and the republican ireland is that it's evolved past the point of traitors and such.
Now it's just a clusterfuck.

[Angleter]

Is there any "Left-wing Party Against Idiotic Ethno-Religious Divides"?

NI21, pretty much.

Who are, funnily enough, also who I'm going to be voting for. They're not out-and-out left-wing, unfortunately, but they're progressive which is at least a start.

What's the difference between themselves and Alliance?

[United Marxist Nations]

Well I'm from the Republic not Northern. No offense, but I still kinda think Ulster was a traitor (Back then, not now since most people on NS weren't alive in the day of the Irish a Civil War in 1922. Not even me). You never wanted to be taken over by the Normans, yet here you are wanting to stay with the UK.

So let me get this straight.
the county that doesn't openly revolt against the democratically elected government in order to found a state on racist and sectarian values are the traitors.
That's a novel way of thinking.

The problem is that the current situation in northern ireland and the republican ireland is that it's evolved past the point of traitors and such.
Now it's just a clusterfuck.

How are they racist? The British were the ones who were colonizing Africa and using gas on the Arabs, not to mention that many Irish Republicans expressed support for the victims of British imperialism.

EDIT: Also, to call the British government in Ireland in 1922 "democratically elected" is pretty fallacious.

[Mad Jack]

Well I'm from the Republic not Northern. No offense, but I still kinda think Ulster was a traitor (Back then, not now since most people on NS weren't alive in the day of the Irish a Civil War in 1922. Not even me). You never wanted to be taken over by the Normans, yet here you are wanting to stay with the UK.

And the other kingdoms and petty duchies in Ireland never wanted to be taken over by the other kingdoms and petty duchies, yet here they are, ruled from Dublin.

[Nadkor]

Lot happened between the Normans and the War of Independence. For one thing, the mass of Protestants that immigrated over from Great Britain. It's their descendants that made up the unionist community, and as far as they were concerned it was Sinn Fein who were the traitors.

That is why I'm for a united Ireland. The unionists are just British people who've stolen land belonging to Ireland and have succeeded in keeping their ill gotten gains. Soon it is going to be impossible to ever restore northern Ireland to its rightful owners.

Interesting.

The people that invaded what the Romans called Pictland, the Scoti, were probably a group from north Ulster. The kingdom they set up was ruled for some time as basically a client kingdom of the Ulaid (who would give their name to Ulster). They invaded Pictland and gradually subsumed the Picts, ending up with the country that became known as Scotland, ruling their lands there.

The people that were planted into Ulster in the seventeenth century were mostly Scottish, from the country that developed out of Irish migration to Pictland and was once ruled from Ulster.

Who was stealing land from who?

[Britannic Realms]

So let me get this straight.
the county that doesn't openly revolt against the democratically elected government in order to found a state on racist and sectarian values are the traitors.
That's a novel way of thinking.

The problem is that the current situation in northern ireland and the republican ireland is that it's evolved past the point of traitors and such.
Now it's just a clusterfuck.

How are they racist? The British were the ones who were colonizing Africa and using gas on the Arabs, not to mention that many Irish Republicans expressed support for the victims of British imperialism.

EDIT: Also, to call the British government in Ireland in 1922 "democratically elected" is pretty fallacious.

One country being racist does not make the other not racist, just less racist.

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ki ... tion,_1918

[Nadkor]

NI21, pretty much.

Who are, funnily enough, also who I'm going to be voting for. They're not out-and-out left-wing, unfortunately, but they're progressive which is at least a start.

What's the difference between themselves and Alliance?

Alliance are alright, but they're pretty much Lib Dems.

[United Marxist Nations]

How are they racist? The British were the ones who were colonizing Africa and using gas on the Arabs, not to mention that many Irish Republicans expressed support for the victims of British imperialism.

EDIT: Also, to call the British government in Ireland in 1922 "democratically elected" is pretty fallacious.

One country being racist does not make the other not racist, just less racist.

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ki ... tion,_1918

But how is their state founded on racist values, as the poster I quoted said so?

Also, that shows that the majority of Irish voted for the party that wanted secession, and they then did so. The British tried to stop that.

[Britannic Realms]

One country being racist does not make the other not racist, just less racist.

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ki ... tion,_1918

But how is their state founded on racist values, as the poster I quoted said so?

Also, that shows that the majority of Irish voted for the party that wanted secession, and they then did so. The British tried to stop that.

It wasn't, I was just objecting to how you used Britain's racism as a reason for Ireland not being racist.

Maybe if they hadn't unilaterally declared independence and then immediately attacked British police and soldiers, the government may have been more open to the prospect.

[EUstan]

All catholics are for seceding from UK, it is just that protestant colonist have majority in population.

A majority of Catholics do not want to reunify with the ROI

The vast majority of autohtonic inhabitans of Belfast voted for Sinn Fein i.e. for a united Ireland. Polls from british web sites are biased just like the british government when it comes to Northern Ireland.

[Ostroeuropa]

One country being racist does not make the other not racist, just less racist.

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ki ... tion,_1918

But how is their state founded on racist values, as the poster I quoted said so?

Also, that shows that the majority of Irish voted for the party that wanted secession, and they then did so. The British tried to stop that.

Just look into the actions of the rebels.

[EUstan]

But how is their state founded on racist values, as the poster I quoted said so?

Also, that shows that the majority of Irish voted for the party that wanted secession, and they then did so. The British tried to stop that.

Just look into the actions of the rebels.

The Catholics back than were in the same position as black people in the 1950s US. They were discriminated.

According to your logic Malcolm X and Muhamed Ali were also racist.

[Kouralia]

A majority of Catholics do not want to reunify with the ROI

The vast majority of autohtonic inhabitans of Belfast voted for Sinn Fein i.e. for a united Ireland. Polls from british web sites are biased just like the british government when it comes to Northern Ireland.

So, it's biased if it supports the opposing viewpoint, and unbiased if it supports your own, right?

[Ostroeuropa]

But how is their state founded on racist values, as the poster I quoted said so?

Also, that shows that the majority of Irish voted for the party that wanted secession, and they then did so. The British tried to stop that.

It wasn't, I was just objecting to how you used Britain's racism as a reason for Ireland not being racist.

Maybe if they hadn't unilaterally declared independence and then immediately attacked British police and soldiers, the government may have been more open to the prospect.

They were incredibly open to the prospect.
It's like I pointed out.

Initially the rebellion was for home rule.
Something the government was completely willing to give them for fucks sake.
We'd been TRYING to give it to them.
But Northern Ireland refused to be a part of it because of catholicism, and feared catholic oppression. (Not without merit.)
So we said
"Well ok, how about we give home rule to northern ireland AND southern ireland."
To which the southern irish promptly lost their shit and starting flinging dung everywhere, screaming about a united ireland, and shooting policemen.
"It's our god given right as irishmen to oppress those protestants!" and shit.
Then they found a constitution that essentially declares catholicism the state religion, bans divorce and abortion, etc, and try to invade northern ireland.
So yeh.


The fact that the catholics were also oppressed is a shame, but it doesn't really excuse the fact that for centuries we were all oppressing the shit out of eachother. Pretending the irish rebellion was anything other than an attempt to install a catholic rule is just ignorance.
It wasn't FOR FREEDOMZ or anything.
It was
"FOR our FREEDOMZ and fuck the protestants."

[EUstan]

The vast majority of autohtonic inhabitans of Belfast voted for Sinn Fein i.e. for a united Ireland. Polls from british web sites are biased just like the british government when it comes to Northern Ireland.

So, it's biased if it supports the opposing viewpoint, and unbiased if it supports your own, right?

Than explain if most catholics are against uniting with Ireland why are most of them voting for Sinn Fein?