The General Car Thread.

[Auzkhia]

Jesus, hot hatches with some depressing and angry sounding 3 cylinders.

My principle to never buy anything with less than 6 cylinders is only going to get increasingly more difficult.

Fiesta is very small, it can run on three. 1.0 liter 3 cylinder is adequate. If you can 200 hp from a 3 pot, that's impressive, it shows how far engine technology has come. 40 years ago the C3 Corvette with the 5.7 liter V8 made that much power. Cylinders don't mean much, unless you really care about forced induction, which allows for smaller engines.

My C280 had similar power figures as the C230 kompressor. Only difference was 2 cylinders and a supercharger. Both made around 195hp and same number for torque.

Though if you stick to some midsize cars and especially fullsize cars, you should be fine. Compacts rarely had 6 cylinders.

New Fiesta ST might have a 3 cylinder. Power has come a long way, hasn't it, when 3 cylinders are enough to power a hot hatch.

Gonna requote this post and make fun of myself.

I should have read the article instead of the just the link title.

So it's apparently confirmed that the Ford FOCUS ST will indeed have a 275 horsepower turbo 3. Apparently the entire Focus line is moving to three cylinder engines in Europe, and I'd assume the same for the US eventually.

Fiesta I'm gonna guess it will continue to run with the 1.5 3 cylinder just tuned down to 200 horsepower.

275hp for the Focus ST makes much more sense. I thought it made 250hp. But even then, it's FWD unlike the RS.

[Auzkhia]

It's a station wagon, George. Not a sportbrake, a shooting brake, not a crossover.

[NeoOasis]

275hp for the Focus ST makes much more sense. I thought it made 250hp. But even then, it's FWD unlike the RS.

So far I'm going to remain a bit skeptical considering it's only one source right now. And as far as driven wheels go, I'm completely fine with FWD provided it's engineered right.

Though I am a bit worried US might get passed by for the ST based on cylinder count. I imagine we might get an ST with a last gen ST engine or maybe they'll go straight up to the 4 cylinder RS. Personally I'm not a huge fan of this amount of downsizing. I question if it is needed when you have Honda going for a similiar size, but a four cylinder. Sure it's going to heavier and more complex, but I'd argue that the extra low end torque and NVH benefits justify it.

No way in hell the new ST doesn't have some noticable lag.

[Patridam]

Jesus, hot hatches with some depressing and angry sounding 3 cylinders.

My principle to never buy anything with less than 6 cylinders is only going to get increasingly more difficult.

Fiesta is very small, it can run on three. 1.0 liter 3 cylinder is adequate. If you can 200 hp from a 3 pot, that's impressive, it shows how far engine technology has come. 40 years ago the C3 Corvette with the 5.7 liter V8 made that much power. Cylinders don't mean much, unless you really care about forced induction, which allows for smaller engines.

I do very much care. I realize, as an engineer, that it is entirely possible to make good figures, at least on paper, with smaller displacement but forced induction or simply more advanced engineering elsewhere.

However, I also realize that the higher EPA fuel mileage numbers from forced induction disappear in the real world. I also realize that forced induction puts far more stress on the internals of an engine than does natural aspiration. A well-engineered, naturally aspirated, larger engine can get the same fuel economy and last longer than a smaller, forced induction engine, all things being equal. Even if the gas mileage is true-ish, mpg is one of the last things on my mind when looking for a car.

Those are merely the pragmatic values. I, admittedly less logically, vastly prefer the exhaust notes of V6's (a sort of BRAAP), I6 (a sort of angry groan) V8 (the burble at idle and roar on acceleration) engines to the whine/fart of four cylinders. More importantly, I respect the tradition and prestige of more cylinders and larger displacement. Say it with me: "No Replacement for Displacement."

Though if you stick to some midsize cars and especially fullsize cars, you should be fine. Compacts rarely had 6 cylinders.

American compacts did have V6's, at least as options, through until the mid-90s; straight 6's before that. And when older compacts/subcompacts didn't have V6's they at least had the self-respect to have 2.0 liters instead of 1.4.

But I could forgive that, because I don't particularly care for compacts anyway, I'm not a small person. That, and I don't really want a Camaro or Mustang because of the image they project, their inability to handle bad weather, their nonexistent rear seats & trunks, their tight interiors, and harsh rides.

But for midsizers? There's only 3 on the market unless you're willing to spend 50k on a luxury car. The Camry V6 and the ancient Nissan Altima are more expensive than a lot of I4 luxury cars starting at 35k, and the Fusion Sport might has a tiny turbo 2.7 liter that may as well be a large four. The Malibu, from GM, the last bastion of displacement, doesn't even get a 2 liter four unless you spend over 30k.

Full size cars? Well they're all jokes as far as being "full size," but yes, until they all start being refreshed, they still have optional V6's..... but most of them have either ugly interiors or exteriors. The only ones I'd want are the Charger/300; but that makes sense as they have some turn-of-the millennium Mercedes parts. If I wasn't working for GM, I'd probably plop down for a base model 300 as soon as I pay off my student loans.

Gone are the days where making a car more powerful just meant putting a bigger engine in it.

It shouldn't be. It's not as if said solution has stopped working; and the supposed disadvantages of larger engines are overestimated.

[Cannot think of a name]

For the “poverty occasionally saves me from myself” file...

It’s not a Devin SS but I still likes it.

[East Fredonia]

For the “poverty occasionally saves me from myself” file...

It’s not a Devin SS but I still likes it.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell it is under all the godawful paint and Bondo . . .

[The Two Jerseys]

For the “poverty occasionally saves me from myself” file...

It’s not a Devin SS but I still likes it.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell it is under all the godawful paint and Bondo . . .

Looks like it was a first-gen Vette at one point.

[Cannot think of a name]

I'm trying to figure out what the hell it is under all the godawful paint and Bondo . . .

Looks like it was a first-gen Vette at one point.

LaDawri Conquest, a fiberglass special from the 50s/60s definitely inspired by the Vette of the time but built on a Henry J chassis. Originally Canadian but then American.

EDIT: Sorry, not a Conquest, a Daytona. I get them mixed up sometimes.

[Cannot think of a name]

My favorite Ladawri though is the Castilian.


I’m a sucker for 50s/60s fiberglass.

[Petrolheadia]

Well, that is a way of advertising car financing.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine it's 1992. You're a 22-year-old landscaper from Harrisburg, PA, and your 1975 Gran Torino is now unroadworthy and worn, and too cheap to be worth fixing. You're looking for a newer car.

Your friend's grandpa has recently died and left a pretty well-kept 141k mile 1974 Buick Riviera that the friend's family is willing to sell in your budget. You have nothing against it, as it is comfortable and spacious, but have doubts if your income can support both the 455 and moving out of your parents' house, so you've searched the more efficient options available.

So, the final option list is:
- The aforementioned Buick,
- 1979 103k mi. 2.3 A/T Ford Fairmont sedan,
- 1978 175k mi. 350 ci A/T Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser,
- 1975 123k mi. 2.6 A/T Toyota Corona Mark II sedan,
- 1983 122k mi. 2.5 A/T Chevrolet Citation 5dr hatchback,
- 1976 79k mi. 301 ci A/T Pontiac LeMans wagon,
- 1985 223k mi. 2.2 A/T Chevrolet Cavalier wagon,
- 1975 112k mi. 250 ci M/T Ford Ranchero,
- 1984 94k mi. 350 ci A/T ex-police Chevrolet Impala sedan,,
- 1980 116k mi. 305 ci A/T Chevrolet Monte Carlo,
- 1983 125k mi. 2.2 A/T Plymouth Reliant coupe,
- 1978 100k mi. 351 ci A/T Ford LTD sedan.

Which one would you buy?

I'd get the Toyota, with the Reliant and Monte Carlo as closely possible choices.

[Elwher]

Imagine it's 1992. You're a 22-year-old landscaper from Harrisburg, PA, and your 1975 Gran Torino is now unroadworthy and worn, and too cheap to be worth fixing. You're looking for a newer car.

Your friend's grandpa has recently died and left a pretty well-kept 141k mile 1974 Buick Riviera that the friend's family is willing to sell in your budget. You have nothing against it, as it is comfortable and spacious, but have doubts if your income can support both the 455 and moving out of your parents' house, so you've searched the more efficient options available.

So, the final option list is:
- The aforementioned Buick,
- 1979 103k mi. 2.3 A/T Ford Fairmont sedan,
- 1978 175k mi. 350 ci A/T Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser,
- 1975 123k mi. 2.6 A/T Toyota Corona Mark II sedan,
- 1983 122k mi. 2.5 A/T Chevrolet Citation 5dr hatchback,
- 1976 79k mi. 301 ci A/T Pontiac LeMans wagon,
- 1985 223k mi. 2.2 A/T Chevrolet Cavalier wagon,
- 1975 112k mi. 250 ci M/T Ford Ranchero,
- 1984 94k mi. 350 ci A/T ex-police Chevrolet Impala sedan,,
- 1980 116k mi. 305 ci A/T Chevrolet Monte Carlo,
- 1983 125k mi. 2.2 A/T Plymouth Reliant coupe,
- 1978 100k mi. 351 ci A/T Ford LTD sedan.

Which one would you buy?

I'd get the Toyota, with the Reliant and Monte Carlo as closely possible choices.

As a landscaper, I will be showing up at customer's locations, and a percentage of them will be 'Buy American' types, so I rule out the Toyota to avoid giving offense. Also as a landscaper, there may well be times when I need to bring tools or supplies to a job site, so I rule out the sedans/coupes. From personal, real world experience, the GM wagons of that vintage were well built, so I would go for the Olds or the Pontiac, depending on which one looked in better shape.

[Petrolheadia]

Imagine it's 1992. You're a 22-year-old landscaper from Harrisburg, PA, and your 1975 Gran Torino is now unroadworthy and worn, and too cheap to be worth fixing. You're looking for a newer car.

Your friend's grandpa has recently died and left a pretty well-kept 141k mile 1974 Buick Riviera that the friend's family is willing to sell in your budget. You have nothing against it, as it is comfortable and spacious, but have doubts if your income can support both the 455 and moving out of your parents' house, so you've searched the more efficient options available.

So, the final option list is:
- The aforementioned Buick,
- 1979 103k mi. 2.3 A/T Ford Fairmont sedan,
- 1978 175k mi. 350 ci A/T Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser,
- 1975 123k mi. 2.6 A/T Toyota Corona Mark II sedan,
- 1983 122k mi. 2.5 A/T Chevrolet Citation 5dr hatchback,
- 1976 79k mi. 301 ci A/T Pontiac LeMans wagon,
- 1985 223k mi. 2.2 A/T Chevrolet Cavalier wagon,
- 1975 112k mi. 250 ci M/T Ford Ranchero,
- 1984 94k mi. 350 ci A/T ex-police Chevrolet Impala sedan,,
- 1980 116k mi. 305 ci A/T Chevrolet Monte Carlo,
- 1983 125k mi. 2.2 A/T Plymouth Reliant coupe,
- 1978 100k mi. 351 ci A/T Ford LTD sedan.

Which one would you buy?

I'd get the Toyota, with the Reliant and Monte Carlo as closely possible choices.

As a landscaper, I will be showing up at customer's locations, and a percentage of them will be 'Buy American' types, so I rule out the Toyota to avoid giving offense. Also as a landscaper, there may well be times when I need to bring tools or supplies to a job site, so I rule out the sedans/coupes. From personal, real world experience, the GM wagons of that vintage were well built, so I would go for the Olds or the Pontiac, depending on which one looked in better shape.

What if the company provided trucks for hauling equipment?

[Arkinesia]

Ford and Holden (a GM subsidiary) used to build vehicles in Australia for the domestic market.

Where the Falcon lived past its 1970 discontinuation in the States.

The Holden Commodore was a Chevrolet Caprice in the middle east. Australian sells a lot there, even Saudi Arabia imports Camels from Australia.

Common misconception. The overseas/US Chevy Caprice is actually based on the Holden Caprice/Statesman.



US-market Commodores were known as the Pontiac G8 and Chevy SS.

[Auzkhia]

Where the Falcon lived past its 1970 discontinuation in the States.

The Holden Commodore was a Chevrolet Caprice in the middle east. Australian sells a lot there, even Saudi Arabia imports Camels from Australia.

Common misconception. The overseas/US Chevy Caprice is actually based on the Holden Caprice/Statesman.

US-market Commodores were known as the Pontiac G8 and Chevy SS.

I see, and are they not all the same platform though?

[Petrolheadia]

Where the Falcon lived past its 1970 discontinuation in the States.

The Holden Commodore was a Chevrolet Caprice in the middle east. Australian sells a lot there, even Saudi Arabia imports Camels from Australia.

Common misconception. The overseas/US Chevy Caprice is actually based on the Holden Caprice/Statesman.



US-market Commodores were known as the Pontiac G8 and Chevy SS.

Fun related fact: at the end of the Ford LTD's, its competitor's, production in 2006, only 77 were sold, making the '06 LTD as rare as the Ferrari 250 GTO.

And the 2005 LTD had only 53 units sold.

[Auzkhia]

Common misconception. The overseas/US Chevy Caprice is actually based on the Holden Caprice/Statesman.

(Image)

US-market Commodores were known as the Pontiac G8 and Chevy SS.

Fun related fact: at the end of the Ford LTD's, its competitor's, production in 2006, only 77 were sold, making the '06 LTD as rare as the Ferrari 250 GTO.

And the 2005 LTD had only 53 units sold.

Ford LTD? Didn't that end in 1986? 20 years before.

Oh, wait, it survived, like the Falcon.

[Costa Fierro]

LTD became a trim level for high end Falcon models until the mid-2000's. Speaking of Ford and Australia, guess what is making a return to Australian touring car racing.

[Aillyria]

Where the Falcon lived past its 1970 discontinuation in the States.

The Holden Commodore was a Chevrolet Caprice in the middle east. Australian sells a lot there, even Saudi Arabia imports Camels from Australia.

Common misconception. The overseas/US Chevy Caprice is actually based on the Holden Caprice/Statesman.



US-market Commodores were known as the Pontiac G8 and Chevy SS.

That reminds me, a few weeks ago a customer came to my job. He had swapped the badges on his Chevy SS and put Holden badges on it, I thought it was pretty cool.

[Costa Fierro]

That reminds me, a few weeks ago a customer came to my job. He had swapped the badges on his Chevy SS and put Holden badges on it, I thought it was pretty cool.

It's the opposite here and in Australia. People put Chevrolet badges on their Commodores. Mostly bogans though.

[Auzkhia]

That reminds me, a few weeks ago a customer came to my job. He had swapped the badges on his Chevy SS and put Holden badges on it, I thought it was pretty cool.

It's the opposite here and in Australia. People put Chevrolet badges on their Commodores. Mostly bogans though.

I'd put a Buick badge on it.

[Costa Fierro]

It's the opposite here and in Australia. People put Chevrolet badges on their Commodores. Mostly bogans though.

I'd put a Buick badge on it.

That's really a Statesman, not your everyday Commodore.

[Auzkhia]

I'd put a Buick badge on it.

That's really a Statesman, not your everyday Commodore.

It's the Chinese Buick, and it only had V6s, so it wouldn't be exactly like, but still a RWD car that GM never made.

I'd only get the same effect if I used a Caprice PPV, not the SS. Which I found earlier were two distinct models albeit on the same platform.

[Elwher]

As a landscaper, I will be showing up at customer's locations, and a percentage of them will be 'Buy American' types, so I rule out the Toyota to avoid giving offense. Also as a landscaper, there may well be times when I need to bring tools or supplies to a job site, so I rule out the sedans/coupes. From personal, real world experience, the GM wagons of that vintage were well built, so I would go for the Olds or the Pontiac, depending on which one looked in better shape.

What if the company provided trucks for hauling equipment?

There are still likely to be times when unanticipated additional supplies are needed at a site, and to save the time required for the truck to come back and then return with the stuff, I'd just throw it into the back of my wagon and deliver it.

[Petrolheadia]

That's really a Statesman, not your everyday Commodore.

It's the Chinese Buick, and it only had V6s, so it wouldn't be exactly like, but still a RWD car that GM never made.

If it exists, they made it.

The thing is that they managed to sell less Statesmen yearly than Lamborgini did Gallardos.