Should a women-only hour at the gym be the standard policy?

[WaRtArIa]

If there's anything I'm sure of it is that you can't psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feelings.

Sure, but being uncomfortable due men staring at you it's a quite common thing. So it's not about "psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feeling", it's about having some experience and knowing a lot of women with similar experiences.

Usually, women AND men alike feel nervous at the gym because it's their first few times there, and because they feel ridiculously out-of-shape compared to the rest of the people.

[Uxupox]

If there's anything I'm sure of it is that you can't psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feelings.

Sure, but being uncomfortable due men staring at you it's a quite common thing. So it's not about "psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feeling", it's about having some experience and knowing a lot of women with similar experiences.

And women staring at other women?

[Futrellia]

If there's anything I'm sure of it is that you can't psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feelings.

Sure, but being uncomfortable due men staring at you it's a quite common thing. So it's not about "psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feeling", it's about having some experience and knowing a lot of women with similar experiences.

When your at a gym, people stare. When your out at Walmart, people stare. When out in public in general, people stare. It's just a natural human thing. Women stare at men, men stare at women, women stare at women, men stare at men. There is no "men are staring at me therefore i deserve an hour where there is no men to stare at me."

Then women will stare at you. It's apart of life. I don't understand why it's such a big deal.

[Galloism]

If there's anything I'm sure of it is that you can't psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feelings.

Sure, but being uncomfortable due men staring at you it's a quite common thing.

I doubt it, at least in the context of gyms. Most people in gyms are pretty disgusting, sweaty, wearing weird clothes, etc.

Myself included.

So it's not about "psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feeling", it's about having some experience and knowing a lot of women with similar experiences.

I seriously doubt the logical feeling is "what if my gym can be discriminatory".

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If there's anything I'm sure of it is that you can't psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feelings.

Sure, but being uncomfortable due men staring at you it's a quite common thing. So it's not about "psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feeling", it's about having some experience and knowing a lot of women with similar experiences.

I am assuming that when you mean "stare" you mean people staring at someone like they'd rape them right there and then.

That has nothing to do with the male gym patrons being oppressive though.

That has to do with certain gym patrons being idiots. But then, if your end goal is to get rid of idiots, I am sorry to say but being an idiot is a genderless epidemic.

[Chessmistress]

I seriously doubt the logical feeling is "what if my gym can be discriminatory".

Then how do you explain the relative abundance (even if it's not enough) of women-only events at various universities? Do you really think they they're trying to be discriminatory? Or it's just that they need a place free from the male gaze?

Usually, women AND men alike feel nervous at the gym because it's their first few times there, and because they feel ridiculously out-of-shape compared to the rest of the people.

The problem of men staring at you doesn't happen just only during the first few times...

[WaRtArIa]

I seriously doubt the logical feeling is "what if my gym can be discriminatory".

Then how do you explain the relative abundance (even if it's not enough) of women-only events at various universities? Do you really think they they're trying to be discriminatory? Or it's just that they need a place free from the male gaze?

Usually, women AND men alike feel nervous at the gym because it's their first few times there, and because they feel ridiculously out-of-shape compared to the rest of the people.

The problem of men staring at you doesn't happen just only during the first few times...

Usually, everyone stares at us, usually because we're sweaty and ugly messes.

[Futrellia]

Then how do you explain the relative abundance (even if it's not enough) of women-only events at various universities? Do you really think they they're trying to be discriminatory? Or it's just that they need a place free from the male gaze?

The problem of men staring at you doesn't happen just only during the first few times...

Again, your defending and trying to morph an experience to only show fault with men, so i will post this again.

When your at a gym, people stare. When your out at Walmart, people stare. When out in public in general, people stare. It's just a natural human thing. Women stare at men, men stare at women, women stare at women, men stare at men. There is no "men are staring at me therefore i deserve an hour where there is no men to stare at me."

Then women will stare at you. It's apart of life. I don't understand why it's such a big deal.

[Ormata]

The problem of men staring at you doesn't happen just only during the first few times...

Have you noted my prior statement?

[Kubra]

merely a setup to jumpstart the conversation. Rather, isn't it you who has been using the pretext of forgiveness and insult to avoid having to actually address the subject at hand? Why, any one of the listed responses would have shut me up faster than a roundhouse to the face.
The offer is still on the table, of course.

You know what? Fine. I'll play your game. I think Milo is completely right. You're like putty in his hands, and he has manipulated you into exactly what he describes. I think Milo is awesome, and he is hilarious.

For the record, I'm the one who's been looking for worthwhile conversation here, but Chessmistress is hardly even worth trying to debate with.

I don't care about silencing you. Why should I?

Another thing, you are terrible at starting conversations. No offense, but seriously, you don't start worthwhile conversation by telling someone that you think their opinion is worthless and not worth listening to

Ah, then it follows: Why is it that Milo's position, ultimately a more exclusionary one, is alright, but a womens only hour is not? I mean, the latter is geared towards general fitness, whilst the former most certainly isn't.

Well, I don't think you've been keen on talking about the matter at all, to be honest.
Terrible? I'm hurt, really. I went into this conversation thinking to myself "What would Milo do?" and it seemed that the only conclusion was to begin provocatively, but it appears that I've misjudged. Where have I failed? But I forgive you, of course.

[Farnhamia]

The problem of men staring at you doesn't happen just only during the first few times...

Have you noted my prior statement?

Just a tip, if the post you want someone to read isn't on the same page as the reminder, a link is very helpful.

[Camaalbakrius]

I wrote these earlier today, so if they sound a bit angry, just know that there is more context that I am just not showing. I was also angrier earlier today, so don't mind that

1.
Are you really requesting me a non-feminist source stating that women are oppressed by the patriarchy?
I'll try to search for it if you are able to give me a communist source saying that capitalism is a great system.

2.
Spain?
Why Spain should be particularly different from France or USA?
I actually lived in Spain, in Barcelona, for a while, and also I lived in other two European countries.
I didn't notice enormous differences.
Spain have a lot of bad attitudes towards women, but most such attitudes are shared by many other western countries, and Spain have one of the most advanced laws against domestic violence against women, with dedicated courts against domestic violence against women.

1. Ah, you missed my point. I want you to point out a time in history where society has changed to meet the needs of men, as you claimed. I want EVIDENCE. I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for EVIDENCE. Historical evidence. I'm not asking for non-feminist proof that women are oppressed by a patriarchy, I'm asking if you can find evidence in history where Society has changed to meet the needs of men. That is what I am asking. I'm not looking for bias. I'm looking for EVIDENCE. EVIDENCE

2. I heard that in Spain, unlike the USA, women are actually opressed in some ways. You completely dodged the point I made about the middle east and how women are treated there.

[Kubra]

Sure, but being uncomfortable due men staring at you it's a quite common thing. So it's not about "psychically sense hundreds of thousands of peoples unspoken feeling", it's about having some experience and knowing a lot of women with similar experiences.

Usually, women AND men alike feel nervous at the gym because it's their first few times there, and because they feel ridiculously out-of-shape compared to the rest of the people.

Depends on context. Most folks who are nervous about the whole gym thing will stick to cardiovascular machines, which is fine, whatever gets you there. The problem is the weights, where one feels a certain amount of visibility, mostly because how much weight you've put on the bar is open for anyone waiting for the rack to see. That's hella uncomfortable when you're not at the bigger numbers. It must be admitted that men have a greater capacity for muscle growth and muscle recruitment for the activity of weightlifting, so guys are usually gonna hit average numbers at a much quicker rate. I can at least imagine that being a women and having to slowly crawl up the weights while mr 5%er tank grunts his reps.

Though again, the problem is gone by just having a cool atmosphere and properly educating newbies.

[Ormata]

Have you noted my prior statement?

Just a tip, if the post you want someone to read isn't on the same page as the reminder, a link is very helpful.

Apologies, it was more of a challenge. I have repeatedly replied to points stated by Chess, who has repeatedly decided to ignore such points. Such blatant disrespect is annoying to state the least.

[Camaalbakrius]

You know what? Fine. I'll play your game. I think Milo is completely right. You're like putty in his hands, and he has manipulated you into exactly what he describes. I think Milo is awesome, and he is hilarious.

For the record, I'm the one who's been looking for worthwhile conversation here, but Chessmistress is hardly even worth trying to debate with.

I don't care about silencing you. Why should I?

Another thing, you are terrible at starting conversations. No offense, but seriously, you don't start worthwhile conversation by telling someone that you think their opinion is worthless and not worth listening to

Ah, then it follows: Why is it that Milo's position, ultimately a more exclusionary one, is alright, but a womens only hour is not? I mean, the latter is geared towards general fitness, whilst the former most certainly isn't.

Well, I don't think you've been keen on talking about the matter at all, to be honest.
Terrible? I'm hurt, really. I went into this conversation thinking to myself "What would Milo do?" and it seemed that the only conclusion was to begin provocatively, but it appears that I've misjudged. Where have I failed? But I forgive you, of course.

Oh, the flamebait. Should I take it though? Hmm... tough choices. I think I'll pass, but I forgive you for trying to do evil upon me. Have a nice day, hopefully you can have productive conversation in the future

[Kubra]

Ah, then it follows: Why is it that Milo's position, ultimately a more exclusionary one, is alright, but a womens only hour is not? I mean, the latter is geared towards general fitness, whilst the former most certainly isn't.

Well, I don't think you've been keen on talking about the matter at all, to be honest.
Terrible? I'm hurt, really. I went into this conversation thinking to myself "What would Milo do?" and it seemed that the only conclusion was to begin provocatively, but it appears that I've misjudged. Where have I failed? But I forgive you, of course.

Oh, the flamebait. Should I take it though? Hmm... tough choices. I think I'll pass, but I forgive you for trying to do evil upon me. Have a nice day, hopefully you can have productive conversation in the future

Flamebait? It seemed a rather straightforward question that could easily be answered in a straightforward matter. In what way have I misunderstood?

[Camaalbakrius]

You know what? Fine. I'll play your game. I think Milo is completely right. You're like putty in his hands, and he has manipulated you into exactly what he describes. I think Milo is awesome, and he is hilarious.

For the record, I'm the one who's been looking for worthwhile conversation here, but Chessmistress is hardly even worth trying to debate with.

I don't care about silencing you. Why should I?

Another thing, you are terrible at starting conversations. No offense, but seriously, you don't start worthwhile conversation by telling someone that you think their opinion is worthless and not worth listening to

Ah, then it follows: Why is it that Milo's position, ultimately a more exclusionary one, is alright, but a womens only hour is not? I mean, the latter is geared towards general fitness, whilst the former most certainly isn't.

Well, I don't think you've been keen on talking about the matter at all, to be honest.
Terrible? I'm hurt, really. I went into this conversation thinking to myself "What would Milo do?" and it seemed that the only conclusion was to begin provocatively, but it appears that I've misjudged. Where have I failed? But I forgive you, of course.

A bit hypocritical, don't you think? Using the tactics of someone you don't like to do something that you despise about that person?

You only prove that Milo is right. You're doing exactly what Milo does: being a troll

[Camaalbakrius]

Oh, the flamebait. Should I take it though? Hmm... tough choices. I think I'll pass, but I forgive you for trying to do evil upon me. Have a nice day, hopefully you can have productive conversation in the future

Flamebait? It seemed a rather straightforward question that could easily be answered in a straightforward matter. In what way have I misunderstood?

For one, you condescension lacks subtlety altogether

[Futrellia]

Usually, women AND men alike feel nervous at the gym because it's their first few times there, and because they feel ridiculously out-of-shape compared to the rest of the people.

Depends on context. Most folks who are nervous about the whole gym thing will stick to cardiovascular machines, which is fine, whatever gets you there. The problem is the weights, where one feels a certain amount of visibility, mostly because how much weight you've put on the bar is open for anyone waiting for the rack to see. That's hella uncomfortable when you're not at the bigger numbers. It must be admitted that men have a greater capacity for muscle growth and muscle recruitment for the activity of weightlifting, so guys are usually gonna hit average numbers at a much quicker rate. I can at least imagine that being a women and having to slowly crawl up the weights while mr 5%er tank grunts his reps.

Though again, the problem is gone by just having a cool atmosphere and properly educating newbies.

I've been going to the gym for two+ years now. I've seen guys come in that bench 270lbs and i've also seen guys that can only bench 90lbs. I used to be one of them. This all stems from your own self-consciousness. When bigger guys watch you lift lower weights, you feel embarrassed, it's only natural. But if you really care about the improvement of your body, you won't give a shit. In the gym, you're supposed to be uncomfortable, your supposed to feel all eyes on you, but if your really committed to becoming a new you, it won't matter. If you stick with it, people can watch you all day as you progress and become a more fit, muscled and toned person.

If you can't handle that, then there's plenty of apps that help you plan diets and workouts from the comfort and safety of your own home, where nobody judges you.

[Kubra]

Ah, then it follows: Why is it that Milo's position, ultimately a more exclusionary one, is alright, but a womens only hour is not? I mean, the latter is geared towards general fitness, whilst the former most certainly isn't.

Well, I don't think you've been keen on talking about the matter at all, to be honest.
Terrible? I'm hurt, really. I went into this conversation thinking to myself "What would Milo do?" and it seemed that the only conclusion was to begin provocatively, but it appears that I've misjudged. Where have I failed? But I forgive you, of course.

A bit hypocritical, don't you think? Using the tactics of someone you don't like to do something that you despise about that person?

You only prove that Milo is right. You're doing exactly what Milo does: being a troll

Trolling? Is that what it is? What Milo does? I had assumed that his methods were to ellicit a response where one would otherwise not be received. After all, he most certainly does have that effect, does it not? It has been through such methods that I have been able to confirm that you want the overweight excluded from gyms.
So, if you want to talk hypocrisy, let's talk this position in relation to the position you've taken regarding women-only hours. Is there not some degree of contradiction between these two views you hold?

[Camaalbakrius]

Oh, the flamebait. Should I take it though? Hmm... tough choices. I think I'll pass, but I forgive you for trying to do evil upon me. Have a nice day, hopefully you can have productive conversation in the future

Flamebait? It seemed a rather straightforward question that could easily be answered in a straightforward matter. In what way have I misunderstood?

The reason that it is alright for Milo to have those points of view is because they are opinions. It is not ok in my opinion to have women's only hours because it is sexist in action

[Aboveland]

The idea of a women's only hour is akin to having a white only hour. Would people think that is racist? Yes, of course, because black people would be barred from going to the gym for an hour, giving white people exclusive rights. This shitty idea is therefore sexist, because it privileges one sex only. I've always thought that if the minority demands too much equality the oppressors become the oppressed.

[Camaalbakrius]

A bit hypocritical, don't you think? Using the tactics of someone you don't like to do something that you despise about that person?

You only prove that Milo is right. You're doing exactly what Milo does: being a troll

Trolling? Is that what it is? What Milo does? I had assumed that his methods were to ellicit a response where one would otherwise not be received. After all, he most certainly does have that effect, does it not? It has been through such methods that I have been able to confirm that you want the overweight excluded from gyms.
So, if you want to talk hypocrisy, let's talk this position in relation to the position you've taken regarding women-only hours. Is there not some degree of contradiction between these two views you hold?

First of all, he calls himself a Troll. Second of all, I don't want overweight people excluded from gyms. He never meant that. Why do you think I said you were putty in his hands? He was trolling you. He says those things because he knows feminists hate that, and he wants to illicit responses from you, not because he actually believes it. That's trolling. And he seems to have done a pretty good job. He's a professional provocateur, and it is ok in real life, but in NS we have rules. Many people would call what Milo does falmebaiting.

[Kubra]

Depends on context. Most folks who are nervous about the whole gym thing will stick to cardiovascular machines, which is fine, whatever gets you there. The problem is the weights, where one feels a certain amount of visibility, mostly because how much weight you've put on the bar is open for anyone waiting for the rack to see. That's hella uncomfortable when you're not at the bigger numbers. It must be admitted that men have a greater capacity for muscle growth and muscle recruitment for the activity of weightlifting, so guys are usually gonna hit average numbers at a much quicker rate. I can at least imagine that being a women and having to slowly crawl up the weights while mr 5%er tank grunts his reps.

Though again, the problem is gone by just having a cool atmosphere and properly educating newbies.

I've been going to the gym for two+ years now. I've seen guys come in that bench 270lbs and i've also seen guys that can only bench 90lbs. I used to be one of them. This all stems from your own self-consciousness. When bigger guys watch you lift lower weights, you feel embarrassed, it's only natural. But if you really care about the improvement of your body, you won't give a shit. In the gym, you're supposed to be uncomfortable, your supposed to feel all eyes on you, but if your really committed to becoming a new you, it won't matter. If you stick with it, people can watch you all day as you progress and become a more fit, muscled and toned person.

If you can't handle that, then there's plenty of apps that help you plan diets and workouts from the comfort and safety of your own home, where nobody judges you.

Sure, but telling yourself "no ones looking" only works so well. I credit all gains made not to myself, but the chill uni staff who were willing to form check me without charging me.
You're supposed to be uncomfortable, yeah, but not socially, man. Discomfort should ideally stem from physical exertion.

Saying "but if you're really committed" as about the equivalent of tell the homeless to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, or American Military Advisors telling their afghani subordinates "You have to want it more than we do". It's pure rhetoric in the context of policy.

[Duradeiro]

A public university shouldn't be excluding specific genders from gyms - or any other rec center for that matter. Students are paying to use these facilities, so how is it fair to exclude them because somebody might feel 'intimidated' by their presence? If somebody is so bothered by this issue, they should find a private gym that either follows this policy or is completely female-only.