Is There Really a Rape Culture?

[Wallenburg]

It wasn't really an ad-hominem attack, it was a snide comment.

It was more that I was in a hurry and didn't have time to expand on it. I was wondering if he would understand my comment or ask me what I meant. It was meant to trigger some reflection on the part of the French poster.

In hindsight, it actually turned out to be a test for who assumes bad faith on my part, a test that Wallenburg failed.

Snide one-liners tend to be in bad faith. What I gathered from your vacuous post was that you had no argument left and instead felt like attacking the poster's character.

[Arkolon]

France has a rather macho culture, where a relatively large number of men feel justified to be assholes to women. So given his environment, it makes sense that he believes that this is part of Western culture, if he confuses French culture with Western culture.

This isn't even close to the stereotype of French culture, and neither is it true of my environment or the attitudes of men around me. You're pulling this one out of your ass.

[Gravlen]

Could be that despite all of this, some people think it appropriate to imply that women enjoy these benefits only for as long as men allow them to, and threaten to undo all of the progress made unless women show that they know their place. Could be that all the fuss is about women hearing what these people are saying, and worrying that their liberty is just an illusion which can be taken away from them on a whim.

Just a thought...

Fear often leads to oppression. A lot of white supremacists believe that black men are inherently violent and hypersexual & are afraid of that. A lot of anti-semites think that Jews control the banks and are afraid of getting abused through the economic system.

Of course not all fear is unwarranted, but women got rights more easily than any group who fought for rights. Women got the vote & equal access to education after some marching and lobbying. Black people got their faces smashed in before they got the same.

The idea that women will just lose their rights is not realistic in today's society. People who think that are delusional.

PS. Could it be that some people think that men now deserve some rights, like the right to be taken seriously when raped? Could it be that they see mainstream feminists as the enemy because they keep working hard to spread the narrative that men are almost exclusively perpetrators? Just a thought....

My response was specifically to New Edom, since he repeatedly has suggested that men take away the rights of women if women don't behave and live up to his standards.

But taking it beyond the one poster, the question remains: is it strange that some people are nervous that the rights they've fought hard to secure can be taken away when people whom at first glance appear to be rational continue to threaten to do it, in more or less direct language? (And more or less direct legislation). It might not appear to be possible to just do it, but still...

Also, your PS doesn't make any sense in the context of my post.

[American Imperial State]

It's nonsense.

I think there is an issue where women do not make themselves clear on the issue of sex; If a woman does not clearly say No and refuse or make it clear that she is not interested, then it is not rape. Provided she has already given implied or clear consent. What really gets my goat is when women cry 'rape culture' when a guy simply asks if she wants to have sex. I saw this story on Amazing Atheist were this dipshit lady decided that it was 'rape' to ask her if she wanted to 'go back' to his place for some coffee.

This whole feminist thing is a load of crock.

[Imperializt Russia]

Oh come now, that's quite reductionist.

[American Imperial State]

Oh come now, that's quite reductionist.

I don't think so.

people are going to fuck in college, that's just how it is. I don't think it's necessarily 'rape' culture. You can't change that no matter how hard you try.

Some people go about it the wrong way, but the women have an obligation to make sure they're in a safe environment with people they trust. They can't always do that, but that's where the law kicks in. That's not to say the perpetrators aren't guilty, just that there will always be perps. But it's not a 'culture' anymore than we have a stealing culture in the United States.

[Imperializt Russia]

Oh come now, that's quite reductionist.

I don't think so.

people are going to fuck in college, that's just how it is. I don't think it's necessarily 'rape' culture. You can't change that no matter how hard you try.

That's not what rape culture is, and I'd like to think that you know that as well.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

It's nonsense.

I think there is an issue where women do not make themselves clear on the issue of sex; If a woman does not clearly say No and refuse or make it clear that she is not interested, then it is not rape. Provided she has already given implied or clear consent. What really gets my goat is when women cry 'rape culture' when a guy simply asks if she wants to have sex. I saw this story on Amazing Atheist were this dipshit lady decided that it was 'rape' to ask her if she wanted to 'go back' to his place for some coffee.

This whole feminist thing is a load of crock.

So barring a clear refusal, it's not rape.

And sales of Rohypnol go through the roof.

[Pandeeria]

It's nonsense.

I think there is an issue where women do not make themselves clear on the issue of sex; If a woman does not clearly say No and refuse or make it clear that she is not interested, then it is not rape. Provided she has already given implied or clear consent. What really gets my goat is when women cry 'rape culture' when a guy simply asks if she wants to have sex. I saw this story on Amazing Atheist were this dipshit lady decided that it was 'rape' to ask her if she wanted to 'go back' to his place for some coffee.

This whole feminist thing is a load of crock.

So barring a clear refusal, it's not rape.

And sales of Rohypnol go through the roof.

You know that you need to always interject a bit of common sense into everything you read. Of course when the poster said "if a woman does not clearly say no..." he probably wasn't considering or mentioning drugging someone.

Unless of course you were just joking.

[Kelinfort]

So barring a clear refusal, it's not rape.

And sales of Rohypnol go through the roof.

You know that you need to always interject a bit of common sense into everything you read. Of course when the poster said "if a woman does not clearly say no..." he probably wasn't considering or mentioning drugging someone.

Unless of course you were just joking.

"He didn't consider it" isn't a valid excuse.

[Imperializt Russia]

He was clearly being facetious, but "no means no" is inherently flawed, because people then expect that if someone isn't OK they will stop and say NO, and when they don't, assume everything is fine.
But that's probably not how it's going to happen in most cases, especially with casual sex, especially if one or both are intoxicated (not incapacitated).

Average woman weighs, probably, 120lbs-ish and is 5'4, 5'6
I'm more or less average for a bloke (average weight but way under-strength). 180lbs-ish, 5'10, 5'11

If I am literally inside a girl (lol, that'll be the day), and she suddenly decides she's not OK with what's happening, I have best part of half a foot on her, I weigh half her bodyweight over her, and I am literally inside her.
It's not ideal.

And if I'm flopping away, and expecting her to say, "no I'm not OK with this", I'm probably not going to get that.

[Alvecia]

He was clearly being facetious, but "no means no" is inherently flawed, because people then expect that if someone isn't OK they will stop and say NO, and when they don't, assume everything is fine.
But that's probably not how it's going to happen in most cases, especially with casual sex, especially if one or both are intoxicated (not incapacitated).

Average woman weighs, probably, 120lbs-ish and is 5'4, 5'6
I'm more or less average for a bloke (average weight but way under-strength). 180lbs-ish, 5'10, 5'11

If I am literally inside a girl (lol, that'll be the day), and she suddenly decides she's not OK with what's happening, I have best part of half a foot on her, I weigh half her bodyweight over her, and I am literally inside her.
It's not ideal.

And if I'm flopping away, and expecting her to say, "no I'm not OK with this", I'm probably not going to get that.

My rule of thumb is to generally assume no unless explicitly stated.

If during the act she is not explicitly stating consent loudly and repeatedly then you're doing something wrong.

[Imperializt Russia]

He was clearly being facetious, but "no means no" is inherently flawed, because people then expect that if someone isn't OK they will stop and say NO, and when they don't, assume everything is fine.
But that's probably not how it's going to happen in most cases, especially with casual sex, especially if one or both are intoxicated (not incapacitated).

Average woman weighs, probably, 120lbs-ish and is 5'4, 5'6
I'm more or less average for a bloke (average weight but way under-strength). 180lbs-ish, 5'10, 5'11

If I am literally inside a girl (lol, that'll be the day), and she suddenly decides she's not OK with what's happening, I have best part of half a foot on her, I weigh half her bodyweight over her, and I am literally inside her.
It's not ideal.

And if I'm flopping away, and expecting her to say, "no I'm not OK with this", I'm probably not going to get that.

My rule of thumb is to generally assume no unless explicitly stated.

If during the act she is not explicitly stating consent loudly and repeatedly then you're doing something wrong.

We were all virgins once, alright?

[Pandeeria]

You know that you need to always interject a bit of common sense into everything you read. Of course when the poster said "if a woman does not clearly say no..." he probably wasn't considering or mentioning drugging someone.

Unless of course you were just joking.

"He didn't consider it" isn't a valid excuse.

He wrote a little bit on an Internet forum on a rather open ended topic like rape culture, not a masterful essay that inspects every prespective, outlook, and situation on the topic. You can forget to mention a few things here and there, it's ok.

[Sanctissima]

He was clearly being facetious, but "no means no" is inherently flawed, because people then expect that if someone isn't OK they will stop and say NO, and when they don't, assume everything is fine.
But that's probably not how it's going to happen in most cases, especially with casual sex, especially if one or both are intoxicated (not incapacitated).

Average woman weighs, probably, 120lbs-ish and is 5'4, 5'6
I'm more or less average for a bloke (average weight but way under-strength). 180lbs-ish, 5'10, 5'11

If I am literally inside a girl (lol, that'll be the day), and she suddenly decides she's not OK with what's happening, I have best part of half a foot on her, I weigh half her bodyweight over her, and I am literally inside her.
It's not ideal.

And if I'm flopping away, and expecting her to say, "no I'm not OK with this", I'm probably not going to get that.

My rule of thumb is to generally assume no unless explicitly stated.

If during the act she is not explicitly stating consent loudly and repeatedly then you're doing something wrong.

You've... clearly never had sex. That's rarely how it happens.

Very few people are going to be saying "Yes, this is fine" over and over again while having sex. Usually, it's just a lot of panting and heavy breathing.

By the time two people are actually engaged in sexual intercourse, if one isn't outright telling the other to stop or making some gesture for them to get off, then both parties can safely assume that the other is okay with it.

[Kelinfort]

"He didn't consider it" isn't a valid excuse.

He wrote a little bit on an Internet forum on a rather open ended topic like rape culture, not a masterful essay that inspects every prespective, outlook, and situation on the topic. You can forget to mention a few things here and there, it's ok.

Why should I give the benefit of the doubt to someone who cites an anecdote about a woman claiming rape over an invitation to coffee?

[Alvecia]

My rule of thumb is to generally assume no unless explicitly stated.

If during the act she is not explicitly stating consent loudly and repeatedly then you're doing something wrong.

You've... clearly never had sex. That's rarely how it happens.

Very few people are going to be saying "Yes, this is fine" over and over again while having sex. Usually, it's just a lot of panting and heavy breathing.

By the time two people are actually engaged in sexual intercourse, if one isn't outright telling the other to stop or making some gesture for them to get off, then both parties can safely assume that the other is okay with it.

It was a joke.....

[Imperializt Russia]

My rule of thumb is to generally assume no unless explicitly stated.

If during the act she is not explicitly stating consent loudly and repeatedly then you're doing something wrong.

You've... clearly never had sex. That's rarely how it happens.

Very few people are going to be saying "Yes, this is fine" over and over again while having sex. Usually, it's just a lot of panting and heavy breathing.

By the time two people are actually engaged in sexual intercourse, if one isn't outright telling the other to stop or making some gesture for them to get off, then both parties can safely assume that the other is okay with it.

You have way missed the joke lol.

The insinuation was, if you were doing it right, and the girl's on board with it, she'll be screaming "yes" in your ear. Or otherwise encouraging your behaviour - "right there" or "harder, you slut".

[Alvecia]

My rule of thumb is to generally assume no unless explicitly stated.

If during the act she is not explicitly stating consent loudly and repeatedly then you're doing something wrong.

We were all virgins once, alright?

You mean people aren't naturally sex deities

[Pandeeria]

He wrote a little bit on an Internet forum on a rather open ended topic like rape culture, not a masterful essay that inspects every prespective, outlook, and situation on the topic. You can forget to mention a few things here and there, it's ok.

Why should I give the benefit of the doubt to someone who cites an anecdote about a woman claiming rape over an invitation to coffee?

Perhaps, oh I don't know, he is another thinking, rational human being that *shocker* is actually against rape and simply didn't talk about drugging?

I mean it is kinda terrible to assume someone is ok with drugging and then raping someone's unconscious body if they don't say they're ok with it.

[Imperializt Russia]

We were all virgins once, alright?

You mean people aren't naturally sex deities

In all seriousness, inexperience is just one point on a worryingly long list why I'm too terrified to actually talk to women.

[Alvecia]

You mean people aren't naturally sex deities

In all seriousness, inexperience is just one point on a worryingly long list why I'm too terrified to actually talk to women.

I've had two relatively steady girlfriends, both from my social circle. So I'm not really good with going out and meeting random girls tbh.
As far as inexperience goes, so long as you try to make sure you both still have fun that's what matters.

[Imperializt Russia]

I have always felt that looking into the social circle would be easier, as it skips the small talk of awkward introduction. It's failed to pay dividends.

[Kelinfort]

Why should I give the benefit of the doubt to someone who cites an anecdote about a woman claiming rape over an invitation to coffee?

Perhaps, oh I don't know, he is another thinking, rational human being that *shocker* is actually against rape and simply didn't talk about drugging?

I mean it is kinda terrible to assume someone is ok with drugging and then raping someone's unconscious body if they don't say they're ok with it.

Awful? Sure. Unsurprising? Yep. I don't give the benefit of the doubt to people online. If you do that, you'll get burned quickly.

[Federation of Timelords]

To me it's completely insane that this topic is a serious issue in the West. The idea that society is secretly condoning rape is ridiculous. We as a society are in agreement that rape is a horrible thing. And the people who don't are seriously messed up in the head. That's why I hate when SJW's say "No means no." We understand that no means no, but a rapist couldn't care less if they say no or not. Not to mention all the time these feminists have claimed that they fight for equality, yet when it comes to things like the definition of rape or men's abuse shelters, they are silent. Either that or they're against it. Like in the case of Earl Silverman, who tried to found an men's abuse shelter, and they protested until the poor man decided to shut down the shelter and kill himself. The worst thing is that an columnist form Salon, tried to say that it wasn't feminism's fault, and that it's because he had many inner demons. Sure the man was depressed, but I can't shake the feeling that maybe his decision may've been influenced by a bunch of third-reich, feminazis protesting his establishment. Moving on from that, there have been feminists who've basically have been trying to change the definition of rape, so that women can never be the perpetrator. Not to mention the idea that if a woman's drunk and everything was consensual, but the next day she decides that it was a mistake, she can claim rape. After all, it's not like she knew what she was doing, she was drunk. Lets see that excuse work for a drunk driver. I'll give them this, that sometimes alcohol and drugs are used to rape people, but I think they're taking it too far. That's all I have to say on this issue, but before I go, I'd just like to say that I'm not an MRA; I'm an egalitarian. I judge people based on their character, rather than their gender, race, religion, etc. So I'd like to clarify that not all feminists are like this. Many of them are good, kind, and decent people. Sadly however, they aren't the ones who have the strongest voice and I feel sorry for them that these maniacs, who hate their fellow man, make these innocents look like they're deranged by association. That's all for now, I wish you all the best.