Ohio Transwoman killed, called "Satan"

[The United Remnants of America]

This is yet another murder of a transperson in the United States, making it nearly 20 in 2016 alone. Anyone who says transpeople just want attention, don't need equality, can wait, or that identity politics is the greatest ebul ever....rethink your positions. It ignores things like this.

Thoughts NSG?

Well, seeing as there's been about 7,200 gun-based murders in America so far this year, give or take, and going on the assumption that tansgendered people make up about .3% of the population, that murder is actually statistically proportional. And since that population percentage is thought to be higher, there's actually an argument that could be made that trans people make up a smaller proportion than they should.

So there's that.

[New Axiom]

So?

So it's something that shouldn't be happening. Obviously a person shouldn't be killed in Syria, but Syria is a dangerous country for everyone. The United States isn't.

I could walk out my front door and get shot and no one would care. Wanna know why? I'm white, middle class, and live in a small town in Iowa. I wouldn't get a news report. But if I was a transgender, oh, the whole of CNN would be swarming my body with cameras.

[Noraika]

That doesn't answer my question. Why shouldn't we care about that person in Syria?

My point was that this woman gets a whole news story about her, but that poor dude in Syria that just got his face blown off doesn't. Fair? Not really. Therefore, most people care more about the transperson more than the poor Syrian dude.

*edits marked in red

People tend to care more about domestic affairs, and people whom they share community and country with, than foreign ones yes, because its something we're directly a part of, but how does what you're talking about have anything to do with the general situation were discussing? Even if we go with your assumption, how does it change anything in the discussion?

[Kelinfort]

That doesn't answer my question. Why shouldn't we care about that person in Syria?

My point was that this transgender gets a whole news story about them, but that poor dude in Syria that just got his face blown off doesn't. Fair? Not really. Therefore, most people care more about the transperson more than the poor Syrian dude.

There are frequent news reports on the situation in Syria. There is the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. There are advocacy groups. There are many in the West and many in this thread that care. Why not about a particular individual? Because his name will most likely never be known because he died in a warzone.

With that said, these people do care about his life despite the fact his name is not published. Your willful ignorance and devil's advocacy is really amusing, however it's also plain wrong.

[New Axiom]

My point was that this woman gets a whole news story about her, but that poor dude in Syria that just got his face blown off doesn't. Fair? Not really. Therefore, most people care more about the transperson more than the poor Syrian dude.

*edits marked in red

People tend to care more about domestic affairs, and people whom they share community and country with, than foreign ones yes, because its something we're directly a part of, but how does what you're talking about have anything to do with the general situation were discussing? Even if we go with your assumption, how does it change anything in the discussion?

This person shouldn't get this much attention. They only deserve as much as anyone else.

[New Axiom]

My point was that this transgender gets a whole news story about them, but that poor dude in Syria that just got his face blown off doesn't. Fair? Not really. Therefore, most people care more about the transperson more than the poor Syrian dude.

There are frequent news reports on the situation in Syria. There is the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. There are advocacy groups. There are many in the West and many in this thread that care. Why not about a particular individual? Because his name will most likely never be known because he died in a warzone.

With that said, these people do care about his life despite the fact his name is not published. Your willful ignorance and devil's advocacy is really amusing, however it's also plain wrong.

I havnt seen a news report on Syria since the olympics started.

[Kelinfort]

*edits marked in red

People tend to care more about domestic affairs, and people whom they share community and country with, than foreign ones yes, because its something we're directly a part of, but how does what you're talking about have anything to do with the general situation were discussing? Even if we go with your assumption, how does it change anything in the discussion?

This person shouldn't get this much attention. They only deserve as much as anyone else.

So terror attacks that mention the victims aren't fair to your grandmother?

You poor thing.

[Val Halla]

There are frequent news reports on the situation in Syria. There is the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. There are advocacy groups. There are many in the West and many in this thread that care. Why not about a particular individual? Because his name will most likely never be known because he died in a warzone.

With that said, these people do care about his life despite the fact his name is not published. Your willful ignorance and devil's advocacy is really amusing, however it's also plain wrong.

I havnt seen a news report on Syria since the olympics started.

Would you have seen this, were it not on NSG?

[Setgavarius]

Why shouldn't we care about that person in Syria?

Do you see a news report on that person in Syria?

No, because it would be dangerous to acquire such data and nobody cares enough about the majority of Syrians who would post something that ends up in this forum.
People on this forum are concerned about trans people and post stuff here.

[Kelinfort]

There are frequent news reports on the situation in Syria. There is the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights. There are advocacy groups. There are many in the West and many in this thread that care. Why not about a particular individual? Because his name will most likely never be known because he died in a warzone.

With that said, these people do care about his life despite the fact his name is not published. Your willful ignorance and devil's advocacy is really amusing, however it's also plain wrong.

I havnt seen a news report on Syria since the olympics started.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/s ... 46636.html

Ignorance isn't an excuse.

[Pantopian Empire]

Thats really sad, I definitely think transgender people are a group that isn't given the same attention as others, however identity politics in general to me just seems a little trivial in that humans are all 99.999% the exact same (genetically). I personally think we should celebrate what we have in common instead of obsess ourselves with what we have apart. The worst part of it, though, is all the labels and categories people try to create. If you feel like you are a woman, be a woman, if you feel like a man, be a man. To be honest I don't see why people care so much about what someone else wants to do with their life.

[Setgavarius]

So it's something that shouldn't be happening. Obviously a person shouldn't be killed in Syria, but Syria is a dangerous country for everyone. The United States isn't.

I could walk out my front door and get shot and no one would care. Wanna know why? I'm white, middle class, and live in a small town in Iowa. I wouldn't get a news report. But if I was a transgender, oh, the whole of CNN would be swarming my body with cameras.

Only if someone calls you the devil and you get shot in one of the 50 largest cities in the country.
You know. Like Rae'Lynn Thomas.

[New Axiom]

I could walk out my front door and get shot and no one would care. Wanna know why? I'm white, middle class, and live in a small town in Iowa. I wouldn't get a news report. But if I was a transgender, oh, the whole of CNN would be swarming my body with cameras.

Only if someone calls you the devil and you get shot in one of the 50 largest cities in the country.
You know. Like Rae'Lynn Thomas.

But I don't. But she does. It's bull, pure and simple. If the transgender community wants equality, they should recieve the same amount of attention as everyone else, not more.

[Kelinfort]

Only if someone calls you the devil and you get shot in one of the 50 largest cities in the country.
You know. Like Rae'Lynn Thomas.

But I don't. But she does. It's bull, pure and simple. If the transgender community wants equality, they should recieve the same amount of attention as everyone else, not more.

Your grandmother's death and the coverage surrounding it is probably going to be far less than that of a terror attack.

[Val Halla]

Only if someone calls you the devil and you get shot in one of the 50 largest cities in the country.
You know. Like Rae'Lynn Thomas.

But I don't. But she does. It's bull, pure and simple. If the transgender community wants equality, they should recieve the same amount of attention as everyone else, not more.

So someone explains why and you just completely ignore it. Nice.

[Nearly Finland]

All arguments aside, what happened was bloody horrible.

[Noraika]

*edits marked in red

People tend to care more about domestic affairs, and people whom they share community and country with, than foreign ones yes, because its something we're directly a part of, but how does what you're talking about have anything to do with the general situation were discussing? Even if we go with your assumption, how does it change anything in the discussion?

This person shouldn't get this much attention. They only deserve as much as anyone else.

The presence of hate crimes within a society that perpetuates itself as being "the land of the free", and is targeted at a group within society which is explicitly subject to widespread marginalization, harassment, discrimination, and negative life outcomes already, is a modifier on the pre-existing equality that other people have to begin with.

These variables call attention to persistance of things in the society which the average person would find detestable, and which increasingly violates the collective moral perspective of the population, and thus is more impactful. Perpetuation of pre-existing trends of violence, and violence based in overt hatred towards marginalized groups, do typically take precedence over random killings.

They're getting, in fact, too little attention, because she's only one of many transwomen (not including transmen and non-binary people) killed out of nothing more than hatred for them, and is reflective of the even more widespread discrimination and harassment transgender people face. So no, when it points to even greater issues in society more attention is sometimes justified.

[New Axiom]

But I don't. But she does. It's bull, pure and simple. If the transgender community wants equality, they should recieve the same amount of attention as everyone else, not more.

So someone explains why and you just completely ignore it. Nice.

Okay, if I went to New York, let's say, amd some random dude called me satan and shot me in my balls I still wouldn't get this much media attention.

[Kelinfort]

So someone explains why and you just completely ignore it. Nice.

Okay, if I went to New York, let's say, amd some random dude called me satan and shot me in my balls I still wouldn't get this much media attention.

You would, because you were shot in the balls.

More attention that my grandmother who dies at home alone. Where's the care for her?

[Greater Orensta]

So someone explains why and you just completely ignore it. Nice.

Okay, if I went to New York, let's say, amd some random dude called me satan and shot me in my balls I still wouldn't get this much media attention.

No, A lot of murders are reported around the US and even Europe

[Setgavarius]

Only if someone calls you the devil and you get shot in one of the 50 largest cities in the country.
You know. Like Rae'Lynn Thomas.

But I don't. But she does. It's bull, pure and simple. If the transgender community wants equality, they should recieve the same amount of attention as everyone else, not more.

Then you'd have to mandate reporting parity on the part of the news on this matter.
How that could transpire, I have no idea.

All arguments aside, what happened was bloody horrible.

Yeah.

[Val Halla]

So someone explains why and you just completely ignore it. Nice.

Okay, if I went to New York, let's say, amd some random dude called me satan and shot me in my balls I still wouldn't get this much media attention.

Did the guy have an agenda against you because you were part of a certain group?

[Noraika]

So someone explains why and you just completely ignore it. Nice.

Okay, if I went to New York, let's say, amd some random dude called me satan and shot me in my balls I still wouldn't get this much media attention.

Last time I checked there wasn't a trend in religious nuts shooting random people in the balls, or for religious justifications for violence against cisgender individuals. With transgender people it falls not only into individual incidents, but a larger rhetoric that's been used in social conservative circles of using violence and deadly force against transgender individuals, as well as the larger issue of violence and harassment against transgender people, at times religiously motivated and justified, so once again this particular instance points to greater issues in society, and isn't just an isolated incident based in an isolated individual.

The thing is, in your case, its a single person in a single instance, which is more or less isolated. With transgender people it points to a much larger problem within society, is not an isolated incident. So yeah, the range of things being covered is more than just the individual, although the primary story may be about that indiviudal. Its about an issue which is far-reaching in society, and thus impacts many more individuals directly, especially transgender people, and as more people know transgender people as friends, family, coworkers, etc, as these individuals are also effected by the struggles of their loved ones.

[Setgavarius]

So someone explains why and you just completely ignore it. Nice.

Okay, if I went to New York, let's say, amd some random dude called me satan and shot me in my balls I still wouldn't get this much media attention.

Shame you logged out. I was looking at the source material for details on its' importance!

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Mic isn't on that list.
The original article is also rather neutral on the matter of "we need more activism to protect trans people".
Most search results on Miss Thomas's name on the first page, for me anyway, are from LGBT websites. Of course they'd be interested if an LGBT person was called Satan, shot and beaten dead.
HuffPo is down near the bottom of the page.
I expected the Columbus Dispatch tbqh.
You probably wouldn't get this much attention, no. It's still rather insignificant compared to the transition of Bruce to Caitlyn.

[Des-Bal]

Last time I checked there wasn't a trend in religious nuts shooting random people in the balls, or for religious justifications for violence against cisgender individuals. With transgender people it falls not only into individual incidents, but a larger rhetoric that's been used in social conservative circles of using violence and deadly force against transgender individuals, as well as the larger issue of violence and harassment against transgender people, so once again this particular instance points to greater issues in society, and isn't just an isolated incident based in an isolated individual.

The thing is, in your case, its a single person in a single instance, which is more or less isolated. With transgender people it points to a much larger problem within society, is not an isolated incident. So yeah, the range of things being covered is more than just the individual, although the primary story may be about that indiviudal. Its about an issue which is far-reaching in society, and thus impacts many more individuals directly, especially transgender people, and as more people know transgender people as friends, family, coworkers, etc, as these individuals are also effected by the struggles of their loved ones.

Except transgender people seem to be murdered at a lower rate than the general population. Individual incidents or big picture this isn't the pandemic that the narritive is spinning it as.