Ukraine Megathread: Crimea River Build a Bridge, Get Over It

[Jinwoy]

In Bulgakov's "Heart of the Dog" Prof. Preobrazhenkiy advised his assistent Bormental not to read Soviet press.

I advise you not to read Russian so-called liberal media.

- First twitt is about planning some protest march called "The Spring" in Mar'jino district of Moscow.
- Second speaks nothing about "Anti-Communism is on the rise in Russia". On "Dozhd TV" one so-called liber said that protester should list among their demands the dissolution of KPRF and the burial of Lenin. Some represetatives from the so-called Russian so-called opposition =/= Russians. Even a small part of them.

Thank you for explaining that, I'll keep it in mind for the future.

[The balkens]

There's no evidence that the US government tells the New York Times anything, there is only speculation by left-leaning media.

For all we know, "Experts" in Russia probably assume that western media works like Russian media.

Controlled by the government and is a propaganda tool.

[Lytenburgh]

In the city center of Kiev memorial plaque honoring "Heavenly Hundred" was stolen for scrap metal

An ardent defender of the Ukrainian language, MP and Maidan activist Alexander Donij can not be silent any longer due to his indignation with the theft of bronze plaque set in the memory of the bloody events of last February.

"Today, on February 20, together with representatives of the 14th" Kolomiysky hundred" I was on the"Bridge of lovers"... A year ago, just after the Maidan we rebuilt the bridge, brought from Sheparovtsev oak planks and laid them. Made benches, painted them. Hung a plaque. Bridge now stands. But a bronze plaque was stolen by someone. Either to sell for the scrap metal scrapped, or because of the hatred of the Maidan, who knows ...

Most likely due to the metal. There is no plaque anymore. And those who stood on the Maidan, came back here. Because they are ready to go to stay on Maidan again.

Ominous... and highly symbolic.

[Geilinor]

Whether you agree with Euromaidan or not, historic events occurred and that is why there should be a memorial plaque.

[Malgrave]

It is a remarkably common crime. I can remember half-a-dozen incidents of bronze plaques and statues being stolen from churches, parks and memorial benches for their scrap metal value.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It is a remarkably common crime. I can remember half-a-dozen incidents of bronze plaques and statues being stolen from churches, parks and memorial benches for their scrap metal value.

Yeah I've seen things like that happen in the US, it's pretty common.

[Lytenburgh]

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

Neo-Nazis and skiheads marches, glorification of SS-battalion = freedom of speach? And a sure sign that they are "True European", "Libearal" and "Democratic" countries?

Drat! And how did Germany dared to suppress "freedom of speeach" by banning Nazi symbolgy and party! What a tyrrany! What a... "fascism"!

[The balkens]

It is a remarkably common crime. I can remember half-a-dozen incidents of bronze plaques and statues being stolen from churches, parks and memorial benches for their scrap metal value.

Yeah I've seen things like that happen in the US, it's pretty common.

but but! muh ominous sign that the Russians are coming to reclaim their rightful place as rulers of ukraine!!!

[The balkens]

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

Neo-Nazis and skiheads marches, glorification of SS-battalion = freedom of speach? And a sure sign that they are "True European", "Libearal" and "Democratic" countries?

Drat! And how did Germany dared to suppress "freedom of speeach" by banning Nazi symbolgy and party! What a tyrrany! What a... "fascism"!

It happens here in America, yes, freedom of speech, so horrifying.

[Geilinor]

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

Neo-Nazis and skiheads marches, glorification of SS-battalion = freedom of speach? And a sure sign that they are "True European", "Libearal" and "Democratic" countries?

Drat! And how did Germany dared to suppress "freedom of speeach" by banning Nazi symbolgy and party! What a tyrrany! What a... "fascism"!

Believe it or not, only the country in question has the right to make that decision.

[Simargh]

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

Neo-Nazis and skiheads marches, glorification of SS-battalion = freedom of speach? And a sure sign that they are "True European", "Libearal" and "Democratic" countries?

Drat! And how did Germany dared to suppress "freedom of speeach" by banning Nazi symbolgy and party! What a tyrrany! What a... "fascism"!

You're implying that he agrees with Germany's position on suppressing neo-Nazi marches, speeches, symbols, etc. I highly doubt that.

Yes, even neo-Nazis should be allowed to march and speak.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

Neo-Nazis and skiheads marches, glorification of SS-battalion = freedom of speach? And a sure sign that they are "True European", "Libearal" and "Democratic" countries?

Drat! And how did Germany dared to suppress "freedom of speeach" by banning Nazi symbolgy and party! What a tyrrany! What a... "fascism"!

Yes, it is freedom of speech and yes Germany does suppress freedom of speech to a point when it comes to the Nazi's. Do you have a point somewhere in that drivel that I missed?

[West Aurelia]

Neo-Nazis and skiheads marches, glorification of SS-battalion = freedom of speach? And a sure sign that they are "True European", "Libearal" and "Democratic" countries?

Drat! And how did Germany dared to suppress "freedom of speeach" by banning Nazi symbolgy and party! What a tyrrany! What a... "fascism"!

You're implying that he agrees with Germany's position on suppressing neo-Nazi marches, speeches, symbols, etc. I highly doubt that.

Yes, even neo-Nazis should be allowed to march and speak.

Correct. I do not support neo-Nazis, but I support their right to speak their minds.

[Malgrave]

Yeah I've seen things like that happen in the US, it's pretty common.

but but! muh ominous sign that the Russians are coming to reclaim their rightful place as rulers of ukraine!!!

Just remember that the next time any bronze/copper theft happens in the local area.

[Constantinopolis]

Surely, there are no Neo-Nazis marches in free and democratic Baltic countries!

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Noooope! Move along, nothing to look at here!

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

So I'm sure that, in the name of the same principle of freedom of speech, the Baltic states also allow public displays of pro-Soviet sentiment, right?

Oh wait... no, they don't.

You can't pretend that you allow neo-Nazis to march simply out of respect for freedom of speech when at the same time you ban other kinds of political movements.

[Simargh]

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

So I'm sure that, in the name of the same principle of freedom of speech, the Baltic states also allow public displays of pro-Soviet sentiment, right?

Oh wait... no, they don't.

You can't pretend that you allow neo-Nazis to march simply out of respect for freedom of speech when at the same time you ban other kinds of political movements.

Once again, we're not saying it's okay for them to ban those things. Pro-Soviet sentiments should have the same right to express themselves as neo-Nazis.

[Lytenburgh]

Yes, it is freedom of speech and yes Germany does suppress freedom of speech to a point when it comes to the Nazi's. Do you have a point somewhere in that drivel that I missed?

It is exactly this Western (especially - American) unreasonable desire to upheld the "freedom of speach" by allwoing neo-nazis and skinheads to stage their pride-marches, allowing abstract reasons go before logic, that makes them... unlikable in Russia.

Here we share a belief that such things should not be allowed at all.

[Constantinopolis]

So I'm sure that, in the name of the same principle of freedom of speech, the Baltic states also allow public displays of pro-Soviet sentiment, right?

Oh wait... no, they don't.

You can't pretend that you allow neo-Nazis to march simply out of respect for freedom of speech when at the same time you ban other kinds of political movements.

Once again, we're not saying it's okay for them to ban those things. Pro-Soviet sentiments should have the same right to express themselves as neo-Nazis.

Ok, then we are in agreement. I also strongly believe that no political movement should be banned.

However, I wasn't talking about you or any of the other posters in this thread. I was talking about the governments of the Baltic states, and accusing them of hypocrisy and giving preferential treatment to neo-Nazis (compared to other political movements).

[Carena]

It's a little something called freedom of speech.

Neo-Nazis and skiheads marches, glorification of SS-battalion = freedom of speach? And a sure sign that they are "True European", "Libearal" and "Democratic" countries?

Drat! And how did Germany dared to suppress "freedom of speeach" by banning Nazi symbolgy and party! What a tyrrany! What a... "fascism"!

Freedom of Expression is a very important fundamental right of all people. While I like Germany and her western European nations, I disagree with their decision to ban fascist symbols. As evil as they are, they have the right to express such views.

[Respawn]

For all we know, "Experts" in Russia probably assume that western media works like Russian media.

Controlled by the government and is a propaganda tool.

Which is why I laugh whenever certain armchair analysts claim that organisations like the BBC are a mouthpiece for national governments.
The BBC has nothing to do with the British government, which is why it's funded independently via TV licensing rather than taxes. Anyone with a television must pay £145 a year for the honour, so it's technically owned by British people. I mean, how on earth can it be a mouthpiece for the British government when the British government changes every five or so years?

On the other hand, Kremlin run networks such as RT are intended to spread propaganda and create a more positive perception of Russia amongst western viewers. Which is quite sad and pathetic when you think about it - the Russian government needs to waste billions every year on shilling and propaganda because Russia's global image is so tarnished.

The big difference is that since the UK is more or less viewed positively in the world, the BBC is able to provide high quality, unbiased programming and doesn't have to enter damage control mode like the Russian networks do.

[The balkens]

Yes, it is freedom of speech and yes Germany does suppress freedom of speech to a point when it comes to the Nazi's. Do you have a point somewhere in that drivel that I missed?

It is exactly this Western (especially - American) unreasonable desire to upheld the "freedom of speach" by allwoing neo-nazis and skinheads to stage their pride-marches, allowing abstract reasons go before logic, that makes them... unlikable in Russia.

Here we share a belief that such things should not be allowed at all.

Its almost as if Freedom of speech is bad in Russia.

[The Greater Aryan Race]

Yes, it is freedom of speech and yes Germany does suppress freedom of speech to a point when it comes to the Nazi's. Do you have a point somewhere in that drivel that I missed?

It is exactly this Western (especially - American) unreasonable desire to upheld the "freedom of speach" by allwoing neo-nazis and skinheads to stage their pride-marches, allowing abstract reasons go before logic, that makes them... unlikable in Russia.

Here we share a belief that such things should not be allowed at all.

And yet you people tolerate the presence of the racist far-right politician Vladimir Zhirinovsky and the LDP, not to mention allowing Pamyat to exist fairly untouched in Russia.

What's that? I can't hear you over the stench of hypocrisy.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yes, it is freedom of speech and yes Germany does suppress freedom of speech to a point when it comes to the Nazi's. Do you have a point somewhere in that drivel that I missed?

It is exactly this Western (especially - American) unreasonable desire to upheld the "freedom of speach" by allwoing neo-nazis and skinheads to stage their pride-marches, allowing abstract reasons go before logic, that makes them... unlikable in Russia.

Here we share a belief that such things should not be allowed at all.

And I hate to break it to you, but that belief is stupid. I don't support neo-Nazi's at all, but I do support the right for everyone to speak their minds equally. If we ban neo-Nazi's from doing things like that lets ban communists, anarchists and everyone else we don't like from being able to do any of that.

[Constantinopolis]

Yes, it is freedom of speech and yes Germany does suppress freedom of speech to a point when it comes to the Nazi's. Do you have a point somewhere in that drivel that I missed?

It is exactly this Western (especially - American) unreasonable desire to upheld the "freedom of speach" by allwoing neo-nazis and skinheads to stage their pride-marches, allowing abstract reasons go before logic, that makes them... unlikable in Russia.

Here we share a belief that such things should not be allowed at all.

I think that under normal circumstances, all political movements should be allowed to freely express themselves in public.

Of course, if neo-Nazis are going around committing acts of violence, or threatening people, then that's a different matter and the government is justified in cracking down on them in this case.

But simply stating pro-Nazi opinions (or pro- anything else opinions) should never be banned as such.

In any case, if a country bans certain opinions but allows Nazis to freely march in public, then the government of that country can be accused of being at least somewhat pro-Nazi.

[Simargh]

Once again, we're not saying it's okay for them to ban those things. Pro-Soviet sentiments should have the same right to express themselves as neo-Nazis.

Ok, then we are in agreement. I also strongly believe that no political movement should be banned.

However, I wasn't talking about you or any of the other posters in this thread. I was talking about the governments of the Baltic states, and accusing them of hypocrisy and giving preferential treatment to neo-Nazis (compared to other political movements).

Yes, it is hypocritical of them. But then again, given their histories, there is a reason why they aren't on very good terms with Soviet sentiment (not that it excuses them, but does provide insight into their reasoning).