Detroit woman shot and killed for not giving phone number.

[Seriong]

No, it's mostly just overblown by the media.

That has no effect on its frequency. Whether it is "overblown" or not does not cover the fact that it happens regularly.

No, the reason I say it's overblown is that it doesn't happen regularly. The media merely makes it appear that way.

[Big Jim P]

No, it's mostly just overblown by the media.

That has no effect on its frequency. Whether it is "overblown" or not does not cover the fact that it happens regularly.

The media overplays it while all too often ignoring the benefits of gun ownership. Like women defending themselves from overly aggressive men.

[Inzijard]

That has no effect on its frequency. Whether it is "overblown" or not does not cover the fact that it happens regularly.

No, the reason I say it's overblown is that it doesn't happen regularly. The media merely makes it appear that way.

Unless the media is making these things up half the time, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is clear that our interpretations of "often," and "regularly" differ.

[T Roosevelt]

That has no effect on its frequency. Whether it is "overblown" or not does not cover the fact that it happens regularly.

The media overplays it while all too often ignoring the benefits of gun ownership. Like women defending themselves from overly aggressive men.

Every woman should have a gun.

[Geilinor]

No, the reason I say it's overblown is that it doesn't happen regularly. The media merely makes it appear that way.

Unless the media is making these things up half the time, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is clear that our interpretations of "often," and "regularly" differ.

If it happened all the time, sensationalizing it wouldn't work.

[Big Jim P]

The media overplays it while all too often ignoring the benefits of gun ownership. Like women defending themselves from overly aggressive men.

Every woman should have a gun.

Until we get rid of those that threaten them, then they should have the ability to defend themselves.

[Williamson]

im not entire sure what to say about the op. obviously we need a some cultural change when it comes to sexual hassement but it idiotic to feel afarid of men because a very small number of them are crazy.

[The New World Oceania]

The issue here is that men have become obsolete, our testosterone fuel vigor is not needed in this post industrial society, right?

Do not mix economics and gender studies. We will see where we can go from here.

Masculinity doesn't have to leave the table yet. The male struggle in the United States is real, however, men have lost ambition.

Masculinity is conformity to a set of gender roles associated with a "man." Even disregarding that it is entirely constructed and serves little contemporary purpose, the harm concepts like femininity and masculinity cause are means enough that they should leave the table. Ambition and masculinity are not intrinsic to each other.

The issue here is that men are falling behind in education, and deciding to opt out of family life to perform their natural role.

"Natural" role.

Basic life skills aren't being passed on from father to son. Men should own shops, be on farms too.

These roles and skills are not exclusive to men. There exists no reason why perceived women shouldn't also handle these roles.

Men should not feel detached from their jobs.

Their jobs? Unfortunately, I feel you are referring to "their jobs" as work you expect all men and only men to fulfill.

Trade schools shouldn't be devalued and should be praised as masculine work.

How trade schools are valued is a matter of marketing and high school guidance counselors. Beyond that, there is nothing that makes the work "masculine" beyond it being fallaciously perceived this way; that is, masculinity, as aforementioned, is not some pre-existing aspect of the universe, and we really ought not to base society, specifically our view of vocational schools, off of it.

Consumerism had made men passive, soft, and weak.

I'd ask for evidence but this appears to be a when in doubt blame capitalism argument. At that, in... questionable context.

Our founding fathers have warned us about this.

The founding fathers were used to egalitarianism that took minutes to reload and was used only for protection from foreign enemies. None of this automatic equality with a hundred rounds of freedom in a magazine!

I think feminism

The feminism.

did good things for both men and women but left men feeling lost and confused about being a man today.

Well, yeah. Abolishing gender roles. Removing the centrality of gender to culture. That's kind of the point. Not so much progress has even been made in radical feminism are people questioning their existence already have we converted the world to deconstructionism or

There's this horrid obsession youth culture, youth is no longer a transitory period.

Adolescence hasn't exactly historically been transitory. It's considered more of a transitional period now more than ever.

Men want to stay young forever.

So has been the case since the Renaissance. This is a desire among women, too.

Hugh Hefner is eighty-years old and still lives out these teenage fantasies.

And for as long as Hugh Hefner doesn't make the rest of join him without consent then go right on Hugh Hefner.

Both Genders

Implying there are two.

are not the same and our biology affects how we think.

Psychology and society affect how we think. Biology has not: I can sympathize. I, in the past, thought this was true like you do now, but I will affirm to you right now that biology is not at all what you think it is.

The sexes

Careful; even science has been influenced by our past misconceptions about gender.

need to move past which one is better.

I don't believe this is a question the masses are asking.

Men and women can bring important contributions to family life and the government.

And they can bring the same contributions, which is precisely why gender roles are best left in the past.

The fad and trend of manliness needs to stop and needs to be serious.

I take it you have a stack of "We can do it!" posters for men lying around somewhere.

Dressing like Don Draper won't make you a man.

Broadly, nothing will particularly make someone a "man." It's not something which exists. Gender, as is especially visible in cross-cultural studies, is an element constructed by Western civilization that has no bearing on reality. (Of course, one can identify as a male because their mind will grow accustomed to the choices the society around them presents, but that in and of itself deserves a separate discourse.)

My solution to the crisis

Implying there's havoc in the streets.

of men is to revive manliness,

I've seen my share of bad ideas and let me tell you

manliness has a rich heritage stretching back thousands of years.

Does it? Masculinity, gender roles, and patriarchy have varied wildly over centuries, and that applies exclusively to Western and African culture. If there's a heritage as you're suggesting, it's a very arbitrary one that some guy in Arizona speculated about on Ancestry.com and that's all we know of it.

Manliness comes from the latin word virtue.

Other way around, actually. This is a good rhetorical argument, maybe one to use in a speech where people can't really respond. But here, it's irrelevant.

Virtue is a masculine trait.

Millennia of philosophers and you want to base our understanding of virtue off of linguistics. Nietzsche wept.

We will not throw this away.

For the harm which patriarchal thinking does to-day to both "men" and "women," I'm going to need astounding evidence to be swayed into agreement with that statement.

22 year old men still live with their parents.

We're going to decline to attribute this to the "crisis of men" because it's possibly the least related matter to your claims within the post.

A man today can literally sit in his coach all day,

Apparently because he's lacking masculinity.

procrastinating and let society rule everything

Patriarchy is a form of society that rules everything. For the worse, note.

because this virtue that once was crucial for the survival of the species

Humans became significantly better at not dying.

is now taken for granted and our male minds are distorted in a world ruled by weakness.

Listen, Okonkwo, I know you feel strongly about this...

[Inzijard]

The founding fathers were used to egalitarianism that took minutes to reload and was used only for protection from foreign enemies. None of this automatic equality with a hundred rounds of freedom in a magazine!

That was beautiful.

[Seriong]

No, the reason I say it's overblown is that it doesn't happen regularly. The media merely makes it appear that way.

Unless the media is making these things up half the time, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is clear that our interpretations of "often," and "regularly" differ.

Per year, how many college shootings do you believe there are in the US?

[Inzijard]

Unless the media is making these things up half the time, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is clear that our interpretations of "often," and "regularly" differ.

Per year, how many college shootings do you believe there are in the US?

Are you referring strictly to college shootings? This may be the root of our misunderstanding. I was following Deltaz/Alcase and referring to mass shootings in general.

[Seriong]

Per year, how many college shootings do you believe there are in the US?

Are you referring strictly to college shootings? This may be the root of our misunderstanding. I was following Deltaz/Alcase and referring to mass shootings in general.

That was indeed a misunderstanding, but I don't believe that mass shootings are so common as to be called a regular occurrence.

[Inzijard]

Are you referring strictly to college shootings? This may be the root of our misunderstanding. I was following Deltaz/Alcase and referring to mass shootings in general.

That was indeed a misunderstanding, but I don't believe that mass shootings are so common as to be called a regular occurrence.

I respectfully disagree, but it is ultimately a matter of relativity. I find their occurrence in the first place, much less their reoccurence, to be indicative of societal issues that should be promptly understood and addressed.

[Arumdaum]

The issue here is that men have become obsolete, our testosterone fuel vigor is not needed in this post industrial society, right? Masculinity doesn't have to leave the table yet. The male struggle in the United States is real, however, men have lost ambition.

The issue here is that men are falling behind in education, and deciding to opt out of family life to perform their natural role. Basic life skills aren't being passed on from father to son. Men should own shops, be on farms too.
Men should not feel detached from their jobs. Trade schools shouldn't be devalued and should be praised as masculine work. Consumerism had made men passive, soft, and weak. Our founding fathers have warned us about this.

I think feminism did good things for both men and women but left men feeling lost and confused about being a man today. There's this horrid obsession youth culture, youth is no longer a transitory period. Men want to stay young forever. Hugh Hefner is eighty-years old and still lives out these teenage fantasies.

Both Genders are not the same and our biology affects how we think. The sexes need to move past which one is better. Men and women can bring important contributions to family life and the government. The fad and trend of manliness needs to stop and needs to be serious. Dressing like Don Draper won't make you a man.

My solution to the crisis of men is to revive manliness, manliness has a rich heritage stretching back thousands of years. Manliness comes from the latin word virtue. Virtue is a masculine trait. We will not throw this away.

22 year old men still live with their parents. A man today can literally sit in his coach all day, procrastinating and let society rule everything because this virtue that once was crucial for the survival of the species is now taken for granted and our male minds are distorted in a world ruled by weakness.

ok at this point i am beginning to wonder if this account is serious or meant to be funny

[Quew]

So much angst
here watch these for a philosophical take on the modern gender jumble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o0euhM6 ... IqoyZ7OOAj

[The New World Oceania]

So much angst
here watch these for a philosophical take on the modern gender jumble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o0euhM6 ... IqoyZ7OOAj

From the man who brought you "The Truth About Ayn Rand Revealed."

[Jamjai]

no, I haven't ask any girls for phone number or something similar

so this rules me out

[Des-Bal]

no, I haven't ask any girls for phone number or something similar

so this rules me out

Yes but you have the potential to. How dare you?

[Hanging Garden]

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/26719319/mass-shooting-kills-mother-of-three-wounds-five-others

Men, whenever you question why we don't tell you why we aren't interested, this is why. Whenever we "lead you on", this is why.

This is why women fear men. This is why we avoid you in the street, in the club, everywhere. Because you might decide to shoot us.

I bet this woman encountered hundreds of unsolicited requests for her phone number over the years. However, it only took one pissed off guy to decide that her refusal warranted the death penalty to end her life, and leave another man without a fiancé, and 3 children without a mother.

So NSG, what say you? Is this yet another example of the way our culture believes men are entitled to women, or is this simply a tragic, crazy once-off.

Ummm.....well, I can see both points of view. First of all, to murder someone over anything is bad, but out of rejection is just stupid and INCREDIBLY melodramatic and barbaric. However, this should not reflect all of men; as for the mention of Elliot Rodgers, and this being the second event of murder out of rejection, well, why should you judge that as a universal problem? Most men will probably feel a little butthurt when rejected, naturally, but most will not take out women for rejecting them. Women have the capacity to react to a similar event too- an incident like this is not unique to one gender but to all genders. This is a crazy one-off. Even if it wasn't, who is to say that men are at fault?

[T Roosevelt]

no, I haven't ask any girls for phone number or something similar

so this rules me out

You don't have to ask for that, tell her to give you her number.

[Norstal]

So much angst
here watch these for a philosophical take on the modern gender jumble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o0euhM6 ... IqoyZ7OOAj

Molyneux isn't angsty?

[Des-Bal]

Ummm.....well, I can see both points of view. First of all, to murder someone over anything is bad, but out of rejection is just stupid and INCREDIBLY melodramatic and barbaric. However, this should not reflect all of men; as for the mention of Elliot Rodgers, and this being the second event of murder out of rejection, well, why should you judge that as a universal problem? Most men will probably feel a little butthurt when rejected, naturally, but most will not take out women for rejecting them. Women have the capacity to react to a similar event too- an incident like this is not unique to one gender but to all genders. This is a crazy one-off. Even if it wasn't, who is to say that men are at fault?

You're overestimating how many points of view there are. Nobody is saying "fuck yeah open fire into a crowd when some flighty dame turns you down just because she's engaged and at a funeral and shit." If anyone believes that I haven't seen them in this thread. The only point of departure is that Saint Jade says "this means don't trust men" and everyone else says "it's crazy that you just said that."

[Neutraligon]

no, I haven't ask any girls for phone number or something similar

so this rules me out

You don't have to ask for that, tell her to give you her number.

At which point she thinks you are an ass and walks away...

[Des-Bal]

At which point she thinks you are an ass and walks away...

Telling someone rather than asking is actually pretty effective. You change the transaction costs and put them in a position where they have to directly refuse you rather than respond to the choices you've offered. It's harder to tell someone no when they don't frame the situation as one with a built in no. It's an easy way to stand between them and the door and can be an effective way to pressure someone into going along with you and if that sounds like a good way to begin a relationship with someone you are an awful person.

[Neutraligon]

At which point she thinks you are an ass and walks away...

Telling someone rather than asking is actually pretty effective. You change the transaction costs and put them in a position where they have to directly refuse you rather than respond to the choices you've offered. It's harder to tell someone no when they don't frame the situation as one with a built in no. It's an easy way to stand between them and the door and can be an effective way to pressure someone into going along with you and if that sounds like a good way to begin a relationship with someone you are an awful person.

Again at which point she thinks you are a jerk and walks away. There is no outright refusal there, she just walks away. (I have done so to exactly that comment). I have also ensured that I was then in an area where said person would not bother me.