Well when I told him the actual definition of Corporatism, he still seemed to agree with the idea of Corporatism.
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by Neo Rome Republic » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:44 pm
by Vazdania » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:45 pm
by Distruzio » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:45 pm
Vazdania wrote:Distruzio wrote:
Yes indeed. But which subset of collectivism characterizes those ideologies?
Horizontal collectivism, which gives rise to both socialism and communism, enjoys a significant presence in the American consciousness - just as much as vertical collectivism (which gives rise to monarchism and bonapartism). Yet it is only vertical collectivism that characterizes American society while horizontal collectivism characterizes the philosophical underpinnings of several institutions Americans have accepted - such as emergency service providers, elections, and so on.
It is this reality that sparked the Founders argument for a Bill of Rights. Rights protecting American individualism against horizontal collectivism. Socialism, is merely the manner in which that collectivism has been administered to American society.
It ain't a bad thing. If anything, American society has flourished under this reality. While those with whom I used to affiliate myself would say that this prosperity comes despite the existence of horizontal collectivism and socialist administrations. I say it doesn't matter. Folks want a more socialized - a more egalitarian society.
Welll I don't.
by Vazdania » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:45 pm
by Master Shake » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:45 pm
by Cu Math » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:46 pm
The Serbian Empire wrote:Cu Math wrote:[background=][/background]
We have the exact same thing here. Go out west and ask about the mineral rights. You'll find that even if you buy land in Idaho or Montana, you don't own the mineral rights; a corporation does from when the territory was formed. Whole swaths of exclusive control.
That is a mercantilist leftover dating back to the colonial era.
by Master Shake » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:46 pm
by Vazdania » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:47 pm
Distruzio wrote:Vazdania wrote:Welll I don't.
That's because you, like I, are a dirty little reactionary. We tend to remove ourselves from the franchise which is, as I've pointed out before, a form of soft socialism in America. So we don't affect the franchise results which, inevitably, give rise to a more socialized State - a servile State.
It's what the American population wants.
by The New Sea Territory » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:47 pm
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by Distruzio » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:47 pm
Silent Majority wrote:Distruzio wrote:
You're mistakenly assuming that I'm sneering the word socialism. I'm not.
And I am quite aware of what you point out. Which is precisely why I chose the term socialism. It not only satisfies the requirements horizontal collectivism but, in its own way, and vertical collectivism. Those examples I use are the most appropriate uses of socialism in the individualized American society. You, and others, merely balk at my use of the term because you presume I sneer it. I don't.
I guess my main point is that it would probably be more accurate to use collectivism in the place of where you're your using socialism. The latter having fairly specific meanings both as a socioeconomic system, and as a political philosophy, of which your examples don't really meet.
And I'm not trying to be condescending, it's just this thread is already filled to the brim with the incorrect usage of terminology.
by Pandeeria » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:48 pm
Distruzio wrote:Pandeeria wrote:Cool, all ideologies have collectivist traits.
Yes indeed. But which subset of collectivism characterizes those ideologies?
Horizontal collectivism, which gives rise to both socialism and communism, enjoys a significant presence in the American consciousness - just as much as vertical collectivism (which gives rise to monarchism and bonapartism). Yet it is only vertical collectivism that characterizes American society while horizontal collectivism characterizes the philosophical underpinnings of several institutions Americans have accepted - such as emergency service providers, elections, and so on.
It is this reality that sparked the Founders argument for a Bill of Rights. Rights protecting American individualism against horizontal collectivism. Socialism, is merely the manner in which that collectivism has been administered to American society.
It ain't a bad thing. If anything, American society has flourished under this reality. While those with whom I used to affiliate myself would say that this prosperity comes despite the existence of horizontal collectivism and socialist administrations. I say it doesn't matter. Folks want a more socialized - a more egalitarian society.
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by Distruzio » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:48 pm
Pandeeria wrote:Distruzio wrote:
Yes indeed. But which subset of collectivism characterizes those ideologies?
Horizontal collectivism, which gives rise to both socialism and communism, enjoys a significant presence in the American consciousness - just as much as vertical collectivism (which gives rise to monarchism and bonapartism). Yet it is only vertical collectivism that characterizes American society while horizontal collectivism characterizes the philosophical underpinnings of several institutions Americans have accepted - such as emergency service providers, elections, and so on.
It is this reality that sparked the Founders argument for a Bill of Rights. Rights protecting American individualism against horizontal collectivism. Socialism, is merely the manner in which that collectivism has been administered to American society.
It ain't a bad thing. If anything, American society has flourished under this reality. While those with whom I used to affiliate myself would say that this prosperity comes despite the existence of horizontal collectivism and socialist administrations. I say it doesn't matter. Folks want a more socialized - a more egalitarian society.
You're saying that Socialism and Communism has taken America as the main mindset?
What drugs are you on?
by Norstal » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:50 pm
Insel des Wohlstands wrote:Is communism a terrible ideology? Yes. Is it a philosophical disease? Not at all.
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by Vazdania » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:51 pm
by Pandeeria » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:51 pm
Distruzio wrote:Horizontal collectivism, which gives rise to both socialism and communism, enjoys a significant presence in the American consciousness
Lavochkin wrote:Never got why educated people support communism.
In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???
by The Serbian Empire » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:51 pm
by Edlichbury » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:51 pm
Freistaat Sachse wrote:The New Sea Territory wrote:Have you read Das Kapital? How about the Conquest of Bread? Anything by Trotsky or Lenin?
You define all your views of communism off one book. Marxism is not all of communist ideals.
No, but I've read the Communist Manifest, Marx's magnum opus. All the other books that followed were based on it.
by Vazdania » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:53 pm
by Geilinor » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:54 pm
by Edlichbury » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:54 pm
Pandeeria wrote:Distruzio wrote:
Nonsense. Socialism perpetuates. Especially here in the United States. The education system? The emergency response system? Elections? All of it... socialism. Or, more accurately, collectivism.
Hahahahah, no.
Education, Elections, etc. are not socialism. There hardly is any work place democracy, the poor-rich divide is insane.
Socialism isn't here any more.IndustrializationPolice raids and attacks on towns with those sympathies wiped it out.
by Cu Math » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:55 pm
by Distruzio » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:55 pm
Pandeeria wrote:Distruzio wrote:Horizontal collectivism, which gives rise to both socialism and communism, enjoys a significant presence in the American consciousness
No, it isn't in the American Consciousness. America doesn't have any socialist trait besides from a couple democratic businesses.
US simply isn't socialist.
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