What's the value of tradition?

[Cabra West]

Inspired by a number of posts in the "What do conservatives want to conserve" thread, I thought this might be best placed in a new thread.

It was mentioned in the above thread that traditions have value and need to be preserved, however nobody specified why. Or even how, to be perfectly honest.

Now, "traditions" covers a very wide area of human interactions indeed. It reaches from morals and ethics, language(s) spoken, food and drink, dress, entertainement and arts all the way to body modification, child rearing and religion.

However, I know of no tradition that would ever have remained unchaged for more than 30 years or so.
Languages evolve by adoptiong new words and changing grammar, food and drink changes with new products becoming available and others becoming unavailable, morals and ethics have been becoming more and more inclusive (at least in the Western world) for centuries now, some forms of body modification are becoming unacceptable (foot binding, FGM) while others are becoming completely mainstream (tattoos), child rearing is changing with medical and psychological insight, the list is endless.

There are attempts at preserving some traditions - languages in particular spring to my mind. Ireland is spending fortunes each year essentially forcing children to learn Gealic in school, with little to no noticable results in the vitality of the language. The number of native speakers is static at best, and most Irish I know would only be able to say "hello" and recite the Our Father in Gealic.
The French are trying to shield their language by restricting the number of "anglicised" words which can be used in publications, which again seems to have little to no effect on the language spoken in everyday situations.

So, what value is there in traditions? What value is there in preserving them? And how do you preserve traditions to begin with?

[Vitaphone Racing]

So, what value is there in traditions?

Sentimental value.

What value is there in preserving them?

Sentimental value.

And how do you preserve traditions to begin with?

You uh, keep them going.

[Cabra West]

You uh, keep them going.

But how? People drift, the general populace tends not to cling to traditions as much as they usually shout about. If you wanted to preserve tradition, how to you stem the flow?

[Great Nepal]

So, what value is there in traditions? What value is there in preserving them?

Only value of tradition is sentimental and there isn't good reason to artificially prop it up. Culture needs to evolve or die.

And how do you preserve traditions to begin with?

You dont. Thats job of bearers of the culture, no one else's.

[Vitaphone Racing]

You uh, keep them going.

But how? People drift, the general populace tends not to cling to traditions as much as they usually shout about. If you wanted to preserve tradition, how to you stem the flow?

The examples you gave are hardly good examples of preserving tradition, to me they seemed like examples which nobody gave two shits about so no effortat all was made to preserve them. Preserving tradition doesn't have to be preservation in the extreme, we pick and choose the parts that we want to keep and remove the things that doesn't. Does it mean traditions are never preserved? No. If society wants to preserve a tradition, it will be. If preservation isn't going to plan then it shows that nobody cares.

[Progressive-Conservative Republics]

Ah. Another thread by Leftists to promote degeneration of morality.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

Ah. Another thread by Leftists to promote degeneration of morality.

I'm firmly of the belief you're not reading beyond thread titles anymore, because you clearly can't, won't, or didn't read the OP.
And as to values, depends on the tradition in question. Some are good. Some are bad. And you preserve them by continuing to use them, of course.

[L Ron Cupboard]

Ah. Another thread by Leftists to promote degeneration of morality.

Another deeply unfunny piece of puppetry by someone pretending to be insanely rightwing.

[Immoren]

Ah. Another thread by Leftists to promote degeneration of morality.

Pardon, sugarcube?

[Cabra West]

The examples you gave are hardly good examples of preserving tradition, to me they seemed like examples which nobody gave two shits about so no effortat all was made to preserve them. Preserving tradition doesn't have to be preservation in the extreme, we pick and choose the parts that we want to keep and remove the things that doesn't. Does it mean traditions are never preserved? No. If society wants to preserve a tradition, it will be. If preservation isn't going to plan then it shows that nobody cares.

Essentially, if people like it, they will continue doing so, and if they don't, they don't?
While I agee that this makes sense, I have to wonder why some countries/governements would then be willing to part with such sums of money in order to fight what cannot be fought?

[Old Tyrannia]

Tradition is the collective knowledge, identity and experience of a group of people over numerous generations. Traditions represent centuries of past experience; it's not an ideological blueprint but what's been tried and tested, the knowledge and guidance of our ancestors, not to mention their legacy. Tradition is part of the "social contract" that exists not only between people living today but the past, present and future generations within a society, and to abandon tradition is to betray our forefathers who live on through that tradition. It is what gives a society its own identity, binding the people of that society together. It stands to reason that the amassed wisdom of dozens, even hundreds of previous generations should be greater than that of a handful of people in the here and now, which is why we look to tradition for guidance, for identity, and to connect with those who came before us and made our lives what they are now.

Not to mention that without other cultures and traditions, this world would be a far, far less interesting place to live in.

[Risottia]

Ah. Another thread by Leftists to promote degeneration of morality.

And what would be the "morality" you'd wish to enforce on other people just because you happen to like it?

[Transhuman Proteus]

Ah. Another thread by Leftists to promote degeneration of morality.

Since degeneration suggests a move from some better, less "degenerate" time I'd be curious to know when that magical era was.

If it is the standard misty eyed nostalgia for the 50s - there was a lot of crap wrong with the 50s.

[Progressive-Conservative Republics]

And what would be the "morality" you'd wish to enforce on other people just because you happen to like it?

The morality you and I both share, but you're too cowardly to fight for it because of Leftist peer pressure that's been beaten into you since you were a youngin'.

[Vitaphone Racing]

The examples you gave are hardly good examples of preserving tradition, to me they seemed like examples which nobody gave two shits about so no effortat all was made to preserve them. Preserving tradition doesn't have to be preservation in the extreme, we pick and choose the parts that we want to keep and remove the things that doesn't. Does it mean traditions are never preserved? No. If society wants to preserve a tradition, it will be. If preservation isn't going to plan then it shows that nobody cares.

Essentially, if people like it, they will continue doing so, and if they don't, they don't?
While I agee that this makes sense, I have to wonder why some countries/governements would then be willing to part with such sums of money in order to fight what cannot be fought?

What do you mean it can't be fought? Tradition is preserved right up until the point that people don't want to preserve it anymore. This doesn't mean that tradition can't be preserved only because one day people will stop caring. More to the point, just because people might not want to preserve it in the future doesn't mean money shouldn't be spent on preserving it for the people who do.

[The Tiger Kingdom]

And what would be the "morality" you'd wish to enforce on other people just because you happen to like it?

The morality you and I both share, but you're too cowardly to fight for it because of Leftist peer pressure that's been beaten into you to trade in your pride and soul.

So...you don't know or can't say, but aren't secure enough in your OWN beliefs to say so, because of how inherently ridiculous it is or out of fear of exposing your own ignorance/bigotry.
We get the message loud and clear, buddy.

[Risottia]

And what would be the "morality" you'd wish to enforce on other people just because you happen to like it?

The morality you and I both share,

Prove we share any "morality".
Also, prove that it's moral to enforce your own moral code on someone else. I wouldn't call this a moral behaviour.

but you're too cowardly to fight for it because of Leftist peer pressure that's been beaten into you since you were a youngin'.

Oho, calling names.
Great way to prove your point, not. I assume you consider moral insulting people instead of answering with a proper argument - another example of a concept of morality we do NOT share.

[Regnum Dominae]

Tradition is meaningless and unimportant. We should focus on progress instead of clinging to the past.

[Cabra West]

Tradition is the collective knowledge, identity and experience of a group of people over numerous generations. Traditions represent centuries of past experience; it's not an ideological blueprint but what's been tried and tested, the knowledge and guidance of our ancestors, not to mention their legacy. Tradition is part of the "social contract" that exists not only between people living today but the past, present and future generations within a society, and to abandon tradition is to betray our forefathers who live on through that tradition. It is what gives a society its own identity, binding the people of that society together. It stands to reason that the amassed wisdom of dozens, even hundreds of previous generations should be greater than that of a handful of people in the here and now, which is why we look to tradition for guidance, for identity, and to connect with those who came before us and made our lives what they are now.

Not to mention that without other cultures and traditions, this world would be a far, far less interesting place to live in.

So, you'd see tradition as knowledge?

[The Celestrian Empire]

Has anyone else looked at Progressive-Conservative Republics nation? I think it's kind of ironic... just throwing it out there.

[Old Tyrannia]

Tradition is meaningless and unimportant. We should focus on progress instead of clinging to the past.

I hate the word "progress" with avengence. It suggests that all change is good and natural and proper, and that there is never any value in looking to what has been rather than what could be. It should be banned.

[Regnum Dominae]

Has anyone else looked at Progressive-Conservative Republics nation? I think it's kind of ironic... just throwing it out there.

LOL @ their factbook

The Progressive-Conservative Republics once started out like most first-world, Western societies, divided and pitted against each other by coalitions of feral, back-warded, barbaric cultures of Islamo-Fascism and the ruthless, mathematically, unethical leftist groups of Marxist, Feminist origins and naive apologists. However, it eventually came to a point where economies began to collapse; Marxist ideology became more accepted out of desperation as uninspired and lost men sought for means of fulfilling their procreative destinies, and resentment between the privileged was stirred. Feminists encouraged further divisions between the sexes; Lesbian-Separatist camps grew to the point of holding 30% of their nations' populations. In some parts of the countries, militant feminism was widely accepted, and resulted in the expulsion of any male position of labour or expression, and even populations. Resentment between differing ethnicity also grew, the delusion of race played by unseen enemies.

The turning point came when there was unending rioting in almost every major city of the republics; almost none of the members were people originally born and raised there, often swept and disregarded as ignorant, yokel farmers or blue-collar labourers or timid, hold-fashioned house-wives. The riots plummeting every major working zone to chaos, flipping the economies upside their head, as radical fundamentalist and Marxist-Feminist groups held the nations by hostage. The blinded members of youthful, alien tourists and militant feminists littered the streets with anarchy and the fecal filth of their guttered cultures and manners.

That was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

If order and hope was to ever be restored to desperate, young men and women, there needed to be a restoration of traditional roots of a responsible patriarchal system; a system that took the positive aspects of the past and sought to improve them with technological innovation and philosophical breakthrough. A new party was elected to dispose of the problems of societal erosion once and for all.

Men and women would be treated as equals with different responsibilities, but overall happiness between the sexes would be restored; overall production of the economy increased beyond stability and began to boom after men had been given a purpose to work for families. Women could enjoy stress-free given by over-demanding workplaces of first-world societies with lives as homemakers, to enjoy the company of their family and potential children. Both men and women were returned to their own pedestals of honour and praise

[Regnum Dominae]

Tradition is meaningless and unimportant. We should focus on progress instead of clinging to the past.

I hate the word "progress" with avengence. It suggests that all change is good and natural and proper, and that there is never any value in looking to what has been rather than what could be. It should be banned.

Correct.
wut

[Zottistan]

Tradition has no real objective value to society.

[Geo]

The default value of a tradition is nil, unless it restricts civil liberties. In which case its value is below zero.