Christian theological question.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

I'd go over them, but I got church for the next 4 hours.

You poor thing. Back when I was Catholic, one hour was bad enough.

[Nothgual]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

[Ashmoria]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

[Cearta Bunaidh]

Does God elect certain people to go to heaven/hell?

A yes/no answer will suffice, with appropriate scriptural backing.

If you say yes, what, then, are the criteria for God's choice?

If no, does this mean he doesn't have absolute sovereignty over what happens?

He doesn't really "elect" some to go to heaven, and some to go to hell. He, as almighty, knows what is good and what is evil, and, in the Last Judgment, He will determine who shall go to heaven and who shall go to hell, based on what they did in life. The view that God decided from the beginning, and someone destined to hell couldn't get to heaven, no matter how good they were, but someone who is destined to heaven could still screw up and go to hell, is a Calvinist view. I'm Catholic, and, unlike most Protestant Churches, the Catholic Church stresses good deeds as the way to get into heaven, as opposed to Martin Luther's view that people would never be good enough to get into heaven, so it would only be people who believed in God, not those who did good, but didn't believe. Or didn't believe in the right God. The test for this kind of stuff is to ask a Christian if they think Gandhi will get into heaven. Or a poor African child who died, having never heard of Christianity.

God doesn't have "absolute sovereignty" over what happens. He could, if he wanted to, but He's given Man free will, to do good or evil. Now, some might say that this clashes with His omniscience, but it does not. God knew that I would post this, from before He even created time, but it was my choice. Rather, it was a product of my person and all things in the Universe having effects on me, and if you knew all factors, you could 100% predict my behavior, but you would simply be knowing my choices beforehand. Like God. But they are still my choices. God knew exactly what this would say, when He created the Earth, just as He knew what you'd be wearing when you read this. But it's still human choice. He needn't have "absolute sovereignty." When He sent all events into motion, He knew how everything would happen, and who would go to heaven and who would go to hell, but just because He knew their choices. And He would recognize that if someone changed what they were going to do, they could change their fate (though He would know that they'd do that). Personally, I hope that everyone gets out of hell eventually, after they have been punished and repented honestly. Ah well, I am no God. I hope this was even a little helpful.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

He doesn't really "elect" some to go to heaven, and some to go to hell. He, as almighty, knows what is good and what is evil, and, in the Last Judgment, He will determine who shall go to heaven and who shall go to hell, based on what they did in life. The view that God decided from the beginning, and someone destined to hell couldn't get to heaven, no matter how good they were, but someone who is destined to heaven could still screw up and go to hell, is a Calvinist view. I'm Catholic, and, unlike most Protestant Churches, the Catholic Church stresses good deeds as the way to get into heaven, as opposed to Martin Luther's view that people would never be good enough to get into heaven, so it would only be people who believed in God, not those who did good, but didn't believe. Or didn't believe in the right God. The test for this kind of stuff is to ask a Christian if they think Gandhi will get into heaven. Or a poor African child who died, having never heard of Christianity.

God doesn't have "absolute sovereignty" over what happens. He could, if he wanted to, but He's given Man free will, to do good or evil. Now, some might say that this clashes with His omniscience, but it does not. God knew that I would post this, from before He even created time, but it was my choice. Rather, it was a product of my person and all things in the Universe having effects on me, and if you knew all factors, you could 100% predict my behavior, but you would simply be knowing my choices beforehand. Like God. But they are still my choices. God knew exactly what this would say, when He created the Earth, just as He knew what you'd be wearing when you read this. But it's still human choice. He needn't have "absolute sovereignty." When He sent all events into motion, He knew how everything would happen, and who would go to heaven and who would go to hell, but just because He knew their choices. And He would recognize that if someone changed what they were going to do, they could change their fate (though He would know that they'd do that). Personally, I hope that everyone gets out of hell eventually, after they have been punished and repented honestly. Ah well, I am no God. I hope this was even a little helpful.

If god knew you were going to do something, then how is it a choice? The only way to know the future is if the future follows deterministically from the present. If that is the case, then you can't be in control of your actions, and everything you are is simply an effect, not a cause. Free will and determinism are not compatible, and no amount of semantics or sophistry will cover that up.

[Nothgual]

God doesn't have "absolute sovereignty" over what happens. He could, if he wanted to, but He's given Man free will, to do good or evil. Now, some might say that this clashes with His omniscience, but it does not. God knew that I would post this, from before He even created time, but it was my choice. Rather, it was a product of my person and all things in the Universe having effects on me, and if you knew all factors, you could 100% predict my behavior, but you would simply be knowing my choices beforehand. Like God. But they are still my choices. God knew exactly what this would say, when He created the Earth, just as He knew what you'd be wearing when you read this. But it's still human choice. He needn't have "absolute sovereignty." When He sent all events into motion, He knew how everything would happen, and who would go to heaven and who would go to hell, but just because He knew their choices. And He would recognize that if someone changed what they were going to do, they could change their fate (though He would know that they'd do that). Personally, I hope that everyone gets out of hell eventually, after they have been punished and repented honestly. Ah well, I am no God. I hope this was even a little helpful.[/quote]

You changed your opinion throughout your post. First you said "you (God) would be simply knowing all my choices beforehand." You also said "He knew how everything would happen, and who would go to heaven and who would go to hell". Then you said that people can change their fates. If thats not contradictory I don't know what is. The question is whether God knows who will go to heaven before he creates them. You said that he knows all your choices before he created time and that he knows who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. It appears that, before you changed your opinion mid paragraph to contradict yourself, you believe that God elects who will go to heaven and who will got to hell.

[Nothgual]

Does God elect certain people to go to heaven/hell?

A yes/no answer will suffice, with appropriate scriptural backing.

If you say yes, what, then, are the criteria for God's choice?

If no, does this mean he doesn't have absolute sovereignty over what happens?

He doesn't really "elect" some to go to heaven, and some to go to hell. He, as almighty, knows what is good and what is evil, and, in the Last Judgment, He will determine who shall go to heaven and who shall go to hell, based on what they did in life. The view that God decided from the beginning, and someone destined to hell couldn't get to heaven, no matter how good they were, but someone who is destined to heaven could still screw up and go to hell, is a Calvinist view. I'm Catholic, and, unlike most Protestant Churches, the Catholic Church stresses good deeds as the way to get into heaven, as opposed to Martin Luther's view that people would never be good enough to get into heaven, so it would only be people who believed in God, not those who did good, but didn't believe. Or didn't believe in the right God. The test for this kind of stuff is to ask a Christian if they think Gandhi will get into heaven. Or a poor African child who died, having never heard of Christianity.

God doesn't have "absolute sovereignty" over what happens. He could, if he wanted to, but He's given Man free will, to do good or evil. Now, some might say that this clashes with His omniscience, but it does not. God knew that I would post this, from before He even created time, but it was my choice. Rather, it was a product of my person and all things in the Universe having effects on me, and if you knew all factors, you could 100% predict my behavior, but you would simply be knowing my choices beforehand. Like God. But they are still my choices. God knew exactly what this would say, when He created the Earth, just as He knew what you'd be wearing when you read this. But it's still human choice. He needn't have "absolute sovereignty." When He sent all events into motion, He knew how everything would happen, and who would go to heaven and who would go to hell, but just because He knew their choices. And He would recognize that if someone changed what they were going to do, they could change their fate (though He would know that they'd do that). Personally, I hope that everyone gets out of hell eventually, after they have been punished and repented honestly. Ah well, I am no God. I hope this was even a little helpful.

You changed your opinion throughout your post. First you said "you (God) would be simply knowing all my choices beforehand." You also said "He knew how everything would happen, and who would go to heaven and who would go to hell". Then you said that people can change their fates. If thats not contradictory I don't know what is. The question is whether God knows who will go to heaven before he creates them. You said that he knows all your choices before he created time and that he knows who would go to heaven and who would go to hell. It appears that, before you changed your opinion mid paragraph to contradict yourself, you believe that God elects who will go to heaven and who will got to hell.

[Anti-Social Darwinism]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

I've always wondered. So basically, you choose the version of deity you want to worship and that becomes the correct one. It's all personal, no one goes to some variety of Hell because whatever deity they believe in is the correct deity, whatever faith you espouse is the correct faith, because you chose it. Doesn't that sort of make you deity?

If you choose not to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, if you choose to be Buddhist or Shinto, Atheist or Agnostic, you're still correct, because you chose.

Ok, I can live with that. It's the "one true religion" crap I that I despise.

[EvilDarkMagicians]

The most obvious is: No.
Freewill...etc.

[Ashmoria]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

I've always wondered. So basically, you choose the version of deity you want to worship and that becomes the correct one. It's all personal, no one goes to some variety of Hell because whatever deity they believe in is the correct deity, whatever faith you espouse is the correct faith, because you chose it. Doesn't that sort of make you deity?

If you choose not to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, if you choose to be Buddhist or Shinto, Atheist or Agnostic, you're still correct, because you chose.

Ok, I can live with that. It's the "one true religion" crap I that I despise.

the insistence that "you" and only you know the true mind of god is a kind of blasphemy.

[Anti-Social Darwinism]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

I've always wondered. So basically, you choose the version of deity you want to worship and that becomes the correct one. It's all personal, no one goes to some variety of Hell because whatever deity they believe in is the correct deity, whatever faith you espouse is the correct faith, because you chose it. Doesn't that sort of make you deity?

If you choose not to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, if you choose to be Buddhist or Shinto, Atheist or Agnostic, you're still correct, because you chose.

Ok, I can live with that. It's the "one true religion" crap I that I despise.

the insistence that "you" and only you know the true mind of god is a kind of blasphemy.

My hypothesis is that each "you" knows which deity (or not) works best for him/her. Yes, it's total heresy. Deity (or not) is individual and personal - no one else can tell you what version/interpretation of deity (or lack thereof) is best for you.

[Skeptikosia]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

I've always wondered. So basically, you choose the version of deity you want to worship and that becomes the correct one. It's all personal, no one goes to some variety of Hell because whatever deity they believe in is the correct deity, whatever faith you espouse is the correct faith, because you chose it. Doesn't that sort of make you deity?

If you choose not to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, if you choose to be Buddhist or Shinto, Atheist or Agnostic, you're still correct, because you chose.
Ok, I can live with that. It's the "one true religion" crap I that I despise.

That is incorrect.

So long as you believe in the most prevalent religion you're safe.

And it's not your own "version" it's your "interpretation."

It's not about the validity or accuracy of the religion, but the popularity.

To quote Sensei Carlin:

You've heard that, "sanctity of life." You believe in it? Personally, I think it's a bunch of shit. Well, I mean, life is sacred? Who said so? God? Hey, if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death— has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, all taking turns killing each other because God told them it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the lamb, vengeance is mine, millions of dead motherfuckers, all because they gave the wrong answer to the God question: "Do you believe in God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "Do you believe in God?" "Yes..." "Do you believe in my God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "My god has a bigger dick than your god!"

[Ashmoria]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

I've always wondered. So basically, you choose the version of deity you want to worship and that becomes the correct one. It's all personal, no one goes to some variety of Hell because whatever deity they believe in is the correct deity, whatever faith you espouse is the correct faith, because you chose it. Doesn't that sort of make you deity?

If you choose not to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, if you choose to be Buddhist or Shinto, Atheist or Agnostic, you're still correct, because you chose.
Ok, I can live with that. It's the "one true religion" crap I that I despise.

That is incorrect.

So long as you believe in the most prevalent religion you're safe.

And it's not your own "version" it's your "interpretation."

It's not about the validity or accuracy of the religion, but the popularity.

To quote Sensei Carlin:

You've heard that, "sanctity of life." You believe in it? Personally, I think it's a bunch of shit. Well, I mean, life is sacred? Who said so? God? Hey, if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death— has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, all taking turns killing each other because God told them it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the lamb, vengeance is mine, millions of dead motherfuckers, all because they gave the wrong answer to the God question: "Do you believe in God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "Do you believe in God?" "Yes..." "Do you believe in my God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "My god has a bigger dick than your god!"

i dont understand your point.

[Anti-Social Darwinism]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

I've always wondered. So basically, you choose the version of deity you want to worship and that becomes the correct one. It's all personal, no one goes to some variety of Hell because whatever deity they believe in is the correct deity, whatever faith you espouse is the correct faith, because you chose it. Doesn't that sort of make you deity?

If you choose not to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, if you choose to be Buddhist or Shinto, Atheist or Agnostic, you're still correct, because you chose.
Ok, I can live with that. It's the "one true religion" crap I that I despise.

That is incorrect.

So long as you believe in the most prevalent religion you're safe.

And it's not your own "version" it's your "interpretation."

It's not about the validity or accuracy of the religion, but the popularity.

To quote Sensei Carlin:

You've heard that, "sanctity of life." You believe in it? Personally, I think it's a bunch of shit. Well, I mean, life is sacred? Who said so? God? Hey, if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death— has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, all taking turns killing each other because God told them it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the lamb, vengeance is mine, millions of dead motherfuckers, all because they gave the wrong answer to the God question: "Do you believe in God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "Do you believe in God?" "Yes..." "Do you believe in my God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "My god has a bigger dick than your god!"

i dont understand your point.

I don't get it either. You tell me I'm incorrect, but I'm not - I'm correct for me. In your particular context I'm not correct, but I don't live in your context - I guess you can just color me Taoist.

[Skeptikosia]

Yes, because if God does exist then he would know everything. If he knew everything then he'd know who he was putting in hell. And thats one of the reasons that if God truly does exist then worshiping him would be like worshiping Hitler, because he chooses who to torture for all eternity. That's if the popular theories of God's power and hell are right of course.

you can always choose a denomination that doesnt believe that sort of thing. christianity is flexible. thats why its lasted so long.

I've always wondered. So basically, you choose the version of deity you want to worship and that becomes the correct one. It's all personal, no one goes to some variety of Hell because whatever deity they believe in is the correct deity, whatever faith you espouse is the correct faith, because you chose it. Doesn't that sort of make you deity?

If you choose not to be Christian or Jewish or Muslim, if you choose to be Buddhist or Shinto, Atheist or Agnostic, you're still correct, because you chose.
Ok, I can live with that. It's the "one true religion" crap I that I despise.

That is incorrect.

So long as you believe in the most prevalent religion you're safe.

And it's not your own "version" it's your "interpretation."

It's not about the validity or accuracy of the religion, but the popularity.

To quote Sensei Carlin:

You've heard that, "sanctity of life." You believe in it? Personally, I think it's a bunch of shit. Well, I mean, life is sacred? Who said so? God? Hey, if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death— has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, all taking turns killing each other because God told them it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the lamb, vengeance is mine, millions of dead motherfuckers, all because they gave the wrong answer to the God question: "Do you believe in God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "Do you believe in God?" "Yes..." "Do you believe in my God?" "No." Boom! Dead. "My god has a bigger dick than your god!"

i dont understand your point.

The variations of Christianity occur over differences in people's opinions in a matter that is either completely ephemeral or debatably fictional. Even if they were true, they come about as a matter of opinion only so all you have to do is either follow the prevalent opinion or make your opinion more popular.

[Conserative Morality]

the insistence that "you" and only you know the true mind of god is a kind of blasphemy.

Blasphemy makes the world go 'round.

[Omnicracy]

Does God elect certain people to go to heaven/hell?

A yes/no answer will suffice, with appropriate scriptural backing.

If you say yes, what, then, are the criteria for God's choice?

If no, does this mean he doesn't have absolute sovereignty over what happens?

Quick question. If you are a Christian who believes the Bible is flawed, could you still say what you think?

Sure. There are many Christians who belive the Bible to be the Word of God so long as it is translated correctly. The Bible contradicts itself on many occasions. Most of the contradictions are based on points of reference and slight errors in memory, but there are some doctrinally significant errors as well.

In that case, my answer is no. God gave humanity free will, thats the whole point. If he chose who got in and who did not, we would all be mindless drones. If I am not mistaken, Lusifer's whole rebelion was about controling man because otherwise man would make mistakes. God lets us make our own mistakes. Another way to look at it is thisl; If god chose who went to heaven and who did not, whould he not choose everyone for heaven? If not, then he is a very cruel God. Now, just because God does not force the situation, does not mean he does not know the result, or that he could not force it if he had the desire to. Think of it like a coin toss. I flip a coin and it lands on tails. In what I believe, God would have known the coin would come up tails befor I even thought about fliping it. This does not change the odds of the coin flip, it is just forknowledge as to how the odds play out.

[New Kereptica]

Does God elect certain people to go to heaven/hell?

A yes/no answer will suffice, with appropriate scriptural backing.

If you say yes, what, then, are the criteria for God's choice?

If no, does this mean he doesn't have absolute sovereignty over what happens?

Quick question. If you are a Christian who believes the Bible is flawed, could you still say what you think?

Sure. There are many Christians who belive the Bible to be the Word of God so long as it is translated correctly. The Bible contradicts itself on many occasions. Most of the contradictions are based on points of reference and slight errors in memory, but there are some doctrinally significant errors as well.

In that case, my answer is no. God gave humanity free will, thats the whole point. If he chose who got in and who did not, we would all be mindless drones. If I am not mistaken, Lusifer's whole rebelion was about controling man because otherwise man would make mistakes. God lets us make our own mistakes. Another way to look at it is thisl; If god chose who went to heaven and who did not, whould he not choose everyone for heaven? If not, then he is a very cruel God. Now, just because God does not force the situation, does not mean he does not know the result, or that he could not force it if he had the desire to. Think of it like a coin toss. I flip a coin and it lands on tails. In what I believe, God would have known the coin would come up tails befor I even thought about fliping it. This does not change the odds of the coin flip, it is just forknowledge as to how the odds play out.

It does change the odds. If god knows that it's going to turn up tails, then the probability of it doing so is one. It is completely impossible for it not to do so.

[Milks Empire]

the insistence that "you" and only you know the true mind of god is a kind of blasphemy.

Blasphemy makes the world go 'round.

I bet God finds some of it hilarious.

[Omnicracy]

Does God elect certain people to go to heaven/hell?

A yes/no answer will suffice, with appropriate scriptural backing.

If you say yes, what, then, are the criteria for God's choice?

If no, does this mean he doesn't have absolute sovereignty over what happens?

Quick question. If you are a Christian who believes the Bible is flawed, could you still say what you think?

Sure. There are many Christians who belive the Bible to be the Word of God so long as it is translated correctly. The Bible contradicts itself on many occasions. Most of the contradictions are based on points of reference and slight errors in memory, but there are some doctrinally significant errors as well.

In that case, my answer is no. God gave humanity free will, thats the whole point. If he chose who got in and who did not, we would all be mindless drones. If I am not mistaken, Lusifer's whole rebelion was about controling man because otherwise man would make mistakes. God lets us make our own mistakes. Another way to look at it is thisl; If god chose who went to heaven and who did not, whould he not choose everyone for heaven? If not, then he is a very cruel God. Now, just because God does not force the situation, does not mean he does not know the result, or that he could not force it if he had the desire to. Think of it like a coin toss. I flip a coin and it lands on tails. In what I believe, God would have known the coin would come up tails befor I even thought about fliping it. This does not change the odds of the coin flip, it is just forknowledge as to how the odds play out.

It does change the odds. If god knows that it's going to turn up tails, then the probability of it doing so is one. It is completely impossible for it not to do so.

True, it was an over simplification to the point of being somewhat wrong, I was hoping no one would catch that. While it will definitly play out one way, it is not God making it play out that way, it is God knowing how it plays out. Another example, I get to days lotery numbers and go back in time to befor they were called. I know the nubers that are going to come up, but my knowledge of it does not make them come up.

[New Kereptica]

True, it was an over simplification to the point of being somewhat wrong, I was hoping no one would catch that. While it will definitly play out one way, it is not God making it play out that way, it is God knowing how it plays out. Another example, I get to days lotery numbers and go back in time to befor they were called. I know the nubers that are going to come up, but my knowledge of it does not make them come up.

It does, due to the nature of probability. If you know absolutely that something is going to happen a certain way, it has to happen that way. If you didn't know, then there would be other possibilities for the outcome, but since you know what is going to happen, the chances of those other things happening are zero. In effect, you are making things happen.

[Ashmoria]

The variations of Christianity occur over differences in people's opinions in a matter that is either completely ephemeral or debatably fictional. Even if they were true, they come about as a matter of opinion only so all you have to do is either follow the prevalent opinion or make your opinion more popular.

i dont see what popularity has do to with it.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

It does, due to the nature of probability. If you know absolutely that something is going to happen a certain way, it has to happen that way. If you didn't know, then there would be other possibilities for the outcome, but since you know what is going to happen, the chances of those other things happening are zero. In effect, you are making things happen.

That's not quite true. Even if YOU don't know exactly what will happen, that doesn't mean that it isn't deterministic. It could very well be that what will happen is set in stone and you just happen to be ignorant of it.

[New Kereptica]

It does, due to the nature of probability. If you know absolutely that something is going to happen a certain way, it has to happen that way. If you didn't know, then there would be other possibilities for the outcome, but since you know what is going to happen, the chances of those other things happening are zero. In effect, you are making things happen.

That's not quite true. Even if YOU don't know exactly what will happen, that doesn't mean that it isn't deterministic. It could very well be that what will happen is set in stone and you just happen to be ignorant of it.

Of course. I'm just assuming that nobody knows for the sake of simplicity.

[Kamsaki]

That's not quite true. Even if YOU don't know exactly what will happen, that doesn't mean that it isn't deterministic. It could very well be that what will happen is set in stone and you just happen to be ignorant of it.

Of course. I'm just assuming that nobody knows for the sake of simplicity.

Even if someone does know, though, that doesn't mean the fore-knowledge is what determines the outcome. This would be paradoxical, because your past incarnation knows the outcome as a consequence of the event, which would mean your knowledge is what causes your knowledge.