The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra Thread

[United States of Natan]

Yes, but Azula's attack was a surprise attack that Aang did not see coming and could not counter, and lightning is far faster than a water whip, lava and rocks, or an airbending blast. In addition, When Korra entered the Avatar State, the Avatar State was being activated with the intent of defending the Avatar, Aang entered it with the intent of simply mastering it. Besides that, lightning is not easily counterable, whereas Korra could easily counter a water whip with fire breath, bend a rock from the ceiling to knock Ming Hua out, then airbend Gazan's lava back at him. Aang would not have been able to do that, as he lacked firebending, and was, once again, attacked by lightning, which is incredibly fast and hard to counter.

I fail to see how there's any sort of meaningful difference between the Avatar State and... the Avatar State. You cited Kyoshi splitting Kyoshi Island from the mainland and that clearly wasn't a defensive form, so it's doubtful there even is a difference regarding what activates the Avatar State. Beyond that, Aang wasn't chained up. Regardless of Korra's power to break the chains, they still inhibit movement and thus her ability to bend. Her being easily able to counter anything is a stretch. Overall, killing Korra may have been harder than killing Aang with lightning, but it wasn't impossible (which is what you were saying). It would have been a challenge, but everyone, including Korra, felt that they had the potential to pull it off.

That said, even if it was impossible to kill Korra, that doesn't make Zaheer a fool for trying. He had to put her in the Avatar State and kill her to end the cycle. There was no way for him to avoid an overpowered Korra. So he's basically faced with the choice of letting Korra run around unimpeded in the Avatar State until the poison works, possibly killing him and his cohorts, or he tries to kill her, even if the chances are slim, risking her killing him and his cohorts before the poison works if they don't manage to kill her outright.

Zaheer made the smartest move he could given the circumstances, forcing Korra to struggle against entering the Avatar State and thus giving the poison more time to work and forcing Korra to fight him and his cohorts and thus giving the poison more time to work. And let's not forget the real reason that he didn't manage to kill her was because she's the protagonist. Other than concerns about Legend of Korra killing off the titular character, there's nothing to indicate here life truly wasn't in danger.

I was not really saying it is impossible, I was saying that logically, Zaheer would not have been able to like Azula had.

[Laerod]

I was not really saying it is impossible, I was saying that logically, Zaheer would not have been able to like Azula had.

You may not have meant to say that, but you did:

There is absolutely no way that 3 benders, even at master level, can surpass or defeat an Avatar who has entered the reflexive/continuous Avatar State, even when held in platinum chains, thus the reason why the red lotus was immediately overwhelmed by Korra's strength while in the Avatar State.

Lacking lightning and element of surprise, their chances would have been slimmer than Azula's, but I'd argue the chance was there (and the main reasons it didn't happen because Korra was going to make it to the next season and they didn't want to repeat what happened to Aang).

[Edward Richtofen]

http://degenerate-rich-girl.tumblr.com/ ... -like-this
LOK movie confirmed

[The Flood]

Do the thing.

While I think Season 3 was quite impressive, I don't think it's quite as good as A:TLA

Well 3rd season was undoubtebly the best so far, wasn't overwhelmed with finale but wasn't displeased either, it was fairly good.

But yes it seems that they handled "Anarchism" rather clumsily as I predicted , don't expect much from a show like this in terms of portraying less known ideologies but after the way they handled the whole bender/non-bender inequality issue the first season it's a bit of a dissapointing trope to the show.

All things considered, it could have been handled even worse. At least they made Zaheer (and also Amon) out to be closer to a Well-Intentioned Extremist rather than Obviously Evil (e.g. Azula and Ozai). For a kids' show, LoK has had some pretty complex villains (excluding Unalaq).

Unalaq was pretty cheesy, just evil for evil's sake pretty much. I recall he even had a maniacal laugh scene and an 'im gonna kill you' exclamation at one point.

[The Flood]

We still don't know what exactly Zaheer meant when he said

Aiwei

was the loose end, so Zaheer may have had pragmatic reasons for it.

As for Zaheer taking the Air Nation, that does seem like hypocrisy, but on the other hand, it could have been an "the end justifies the means" type of move. Keep in mind we don't know what Zaheer would have done to them if Team Avatar lost and Korra was captured. Zaheer could have killed the Airbenders before Korra even got to the temple, so simply slaughtering them may not have been Zaheer's plan.

What I still can't believe is that Zaheer threatened a SECOND Air Nomad Genocide. Seriously, if he had destroyed the air nomads again and the Avatar Cycle, he would have been no better the leaders he opposed (Such as Ozai and Sozin), if not worse! As for his ultimate plans, chaos would not have solved everything, because, after reviewing multiple scenarios, they all would have ended badly for the Red Lotus:

1. Vaatu ultimately would have sought a host to form the Dark Avatar, who would have ultimately possibly attempted to take over the world in a fashion similar to Ozai's plans during Sozin's Comet.
2. the Dark Avatar would cause too much Chaos, more than Zaheer would have wanted, and would have enslaved humanity rather than granting them freedom.
3. People, or the Avatar, would rise up against the Dark Avatar, and, with knowledge of how to end an Avatar Cycle, would have invoked the Dark Avatar State, and destroyed the Dark Avatar.
4. They would not be able to destroy Korra or the Avatar Cycle, because Raava would have warned Korra, and either way, they would not have been able to chain up the Avatar, and when Korra inevitably enters the Avatar State, she would have destroyed them.
5. No matter what, through any chaos that might be caused, leaders will inevitably emerge from the chaos, people will look up to them, police forces will be formed, and governments will then form, no matter what.

In addition, clearly Zaheer underestimated the Avatar State. to elaborate on Roku's words, The Avatar State is a defense mechanism, designed to empower the Avatar with near limitless cosmic and spiritual energy, as well as the skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars. The Avatar State has allowed the Avatar to destroy cities, palaces, temples, fortresses, create huge, hurricane-strength gust of winds, erupt numerous volcanoes all at once, destroy entire armies, split and reseal entire glaciers (this example is demonstrated by the Dark Avatar, however), even separate entire peninsulas from the mainland and push them out to sea. There is absolutely no way that 3 benders, even at master level, can surpass or defeat an Avatar who has entered the reflexive/continuous Avatar State, even when held in platinum chains, thus the reason why the red lotus was immediately overwhelmed by Korra's strength while in the Avatar State.

It should still be noted that she would be weaker then usual, though. Due to the poison, but also because she no longer had her past lives, only Raava.

[Reploid Productions]

You know, given what we've seen of Zaheer, I honestly don't think he would have carried out his threat to wipe out the new Air Nomads unless they made a point of getting too much in the way of his "Chaos is teh best world order!" shtick. I honestly think that had he succeeded in breaking the Avatar cycle, that the Red Lotus would have let the captives go free; they were just bait to get Korra, and keeping them captive prevented them from interfering with his plan. (Granted, I doubt the freed captives would have gone about their business peacefully at that point, and their resistance would certainly have been met with whatever force was deemed necessary 'for the greater good' as the Red Lotus sees it.)

I do think he was probably intending to kill Tenzin after using him to bait Korra's allies into the temple though, but then Tenzin is a leader and essentially the ruler of the new air nation. Leaders of any stripe are pretty much anathema to Zaheer's philosophy. Hell, for all it sounds like Zaheer was a fanboy of the air nomad culture, it seems he's got some pretty glaring mis-assumptions about it as well; he seems like he sort of has this notion that the nomads were his ideal free people, never quite grasping that they had leaders, and rules, and traditions too. Kinda like the common stereotype used in IRL media that native cultures are somehow more in tune/in balance with the natural/spiritual world- a built-up ideal created by outsiders with incomplete/inaccurate information. Zaheer is most certainly an outsider, and thanks to the genocide at the start of the war, most of the information he would have likely had access to was incomplete, inaccurate, and lacking in the proper cultural contexts. He may well have come to the erroneous conclusion that the Air Nomads didn't have any leaders simply because they didn't have the familiar singular chieftain/king/Firelord/etc leadership that every other culture has. Not knowing about how the culture was actually run by the senior monks, Zaheer could well have viewed Tenzin as an aberration, a single leader (thus Doing It Wrong) of what are supposed to be a free people, and never quite putting it together that it only seems that way on account of there being only a single senior monk at the present moment instead of several.

tl;dr version: Zaheer is basically a total weeaboo about Air Nomad culture.

[United States of Natan]

You know, given what we've seen of Zaheer, I honestly don't think he would have carried out his threat to wipe out the new Air Nomads unless they made a point of getting too much in the way of his "Chaos is teh best world order!" shtick. I honestly think that had he succeeded in breaking the Avatar cycle, that the Red Lotus would have let the captives go free; they were just bait to get Korra, and keeping them captive prevented them from interfering with his plan. (Granted, I doubt the freed captives would have gone about their business peacefully at that point, and their resistance would certainly have been met with whatever force was deemed necessary 'for the greater good' as the Red Lotus sees it.)

I do think he was probably intending to kill Tenzin after using him to bait Korra's allies into the temple though, but then Tenzin is a leader and essentially the ruler of the new air nation. Leaders of any stripe are pretty much anathema to Zaheer's philosophy. Hell, for all it sounds like Zaheer was a fanboy of the air nomad culture, it seems he's got some pretty glaring mis-assumptions about it as well; he seems like he sort of has this notion that the nomads were his ideal free people, never quite grasping that they had leaders, and rules, and traditions too. Kinda like the common stereotype used in IRL media that native cultures are somehow more in tune/in balance with the natural/spiritual world- a built-up ideal created by outsiders with incomplete/inaccurate information. Zaheer is most certainly an outsider, and thanks to the genocide at the start of the war, most of the information he would have likely had access to was incomplete, inaccurate, and lacking in the proper cultural contexts. He may well have come to the erroneous conclusion that the Air Nomads didn't have any leaders simply because they didn't have the familiar singular chieftain/king/Firelord/etc leadership that every other culture has. Not knowing about how the culture was actually run by the senior monks, Zaheer could well have viewed Tenzin as an aberration, a single leader (thus Doing It Wrong) of what are supposed to be a free people, and never quite putting it together that it only seems that way on account of there being only a single senior monk at the present moment instead of several.

tl;dr version: Zaheer is basically a total weeaboo about Air Nomad culture.

Yes, I do recall the Air Nomads having a governing council at each of the 4 temples. They were the ones who sentenced Aang to finish his training at the Western Air Temple. The only difference being, that Tenzin served in the capacity of the entire councils, as Avatar Aang did before him, being the sole master in the nation.

[The Flood]

You know, given what we've seen of Zaheer, I honestly don't think he would have carried out his threat to wipe out the new Air Nomads unless they made a point of getting too much in the way of his "Chaos is teh best world order!" shtick. I honestly think that had he succeeded in breaking the Avatar cycle, that the Red Lotus would have let the captives go free; they were just bait to get Korra, and keeping them captive prevented them from interfering with his plan. (Granted, I doubt the freed captives would have gone about their business peacefully at that point, and their resistance would certainly have been met with whatever force was deemed necessary 'for the greater good' as the Red Lotus sees it.)

I do think he was probably intending to kill Tenzin after using him to bait Korra's allies into the temple though, but then Tenzin is a leader and essentially the ruler of the new air nation. Leaders of any stripe are pretty much anathema to Zaheer's philosophy. Hell, for all it sounds like Zaheer was a fanboy of the air nomad culture, it seems he's got some pretty glaring mis-assumptions about it as well; he seems like he sort of has this notion that the nomads were his ideal free people, never quite grasping that they had leaders, and rules, and traditions too. Kinda like the common stereotype used in IRL media that native cultures are somehow more in tune/in balance with the natural/spiritual world- a built-up ideal created by outsiders with incomplete/inaccurate information. Zaheer is most certainly an outsider, and thanks to the genocide at the start of the war, most of the information he would have likely had access to was incomplete, inaccurate, and lacking in the proper cultural contexts. He may well have come to the erroneous conclusion that the Air Nomads didn't have any leaders simply because they didn't have the familiar singular chieftain/king/Firelord/etc leadership that every other culture has. Not knowing about how the culture was actually run by the senior monks, Zaheer could well have viewed Tenzin as an aberration, a single leader (thus Doing It Wrong) of what are supposed to be a free people, and never quite putting it together that it only seems that way on account of there being only a single senior monk at the present moment instead of several.

tl;dr version: Zaheer is basically a total weeaboo about Air Nomad culture.

Notably, Zaheer is a hypocrite as well, for he is himself a leader.

[Reploid Productions]

Notably, Zaheer is a hypocrite as well, for he is himself a leader.

Not an uncommon affliction for any flavor of extremist.

[Ameriganastan]

Forgot to turn her swag off.

[Blasveck]

Forgot to turn her swag off.

Asami looks kinda weird in that drawing.

[Jaslandia]

Forgot to turn her swag off.

Asami looks kinda weird in that drawing.

I think it's because Asami has a ponytail in that drawing for some reason.

[Laerod]

Asami looks kinda weird in that drawing.

I think it's because Asami has a ponytail in that drawing for some reason.

Probably has more to do with the lack of her trademark make up on her eyes.

[United States of Natan]

how is it that I am the only one who noticed that "Venom of the Red Lotus" was the 100th episode of Avatar?

[Jaslandia]

how is it that I am the only one who noticed that "Venom of the Red Lotus" was the 100th episode of Avatar?

TV Tropes noticed. Right on this page by "Milestone Celebration".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/R ... heRedLotus

[United States of Natan]

how is it that I am the only one who noticed that "Venom of the Red Lotus" was the 100th episode of Avatar?

TV Tropes noticed. Right on this page by "Milestone Celebration".

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/R ... heRedLotus

They are also the only ones besides me who realized that Jinora, with her head shaved and her tattoos, looks like Aang. I mean seriously, am I the only one here who noticed?

[New Sivonia]

Also the catacombs where Korra was imprisoned by the Red Lotus reminded me of the Catacombs of Old Ba Sing Se where Aang and Katara fought Azula, Zuko, and the Dai Li, and where Aang was presumably "killed" by Azula's lightning when he tried to enter the Avatar State.

[Jaslandia]

Also the catacombs where Korra was imprisoned by the Red Lotus reminded me of the Catacombs of Old Ba Sing Se where Aang and Katara fought Azula, Zuko, and the Dai Li, and where Aang was presumably "killed" by Azula's lightning when he tried to enter the Avatar State.

I guess catacombs filled with green gems are a common occurrence in the Earth Kingdom.

[New haven america]

Asami looks kinda weird in that drawing.

I think it's because Asami has a ponytail in that drawing for some reason.

Because Asami with a ponytail looks adorable.

[Boring Paradise]

Also the catacombs where Korra was imprisoned by the Red Lotus reminded me of the Catacombs of Old Ba Sing Se where Aang and Katara fought Azula, Zuko, and the Dai Li, and where Aang was presumably "killed" by Azula's lightning when he tried to enter the Avatar State.

I guess catacombs filled with green gems are a common occurrence in the Earth Kingdom.

Or with blue gems from the cave of the two lovers.

[Reploid Productions]

I guess catacombs filled with green gems are a common occurrence in the Earth Kingdom.

Or with blue gems from the cave of the two lovers.

I thought it was bio-luminescent lichen or moss or something in there.

[Boring Paradise]

Or with blue gems from the cave of the two lovers.

I thought it was bio-luminescent lichen or moss or something in there.

Now I just went through that whole episode and I still think they are gems.

[Jaslandia]

I thought it was bio-luminescent lichen or moss or something in there.

Now I just went through that whole episode and I still think they are gems.

Technically, I think Katara called them crystals. I may be mistaken; I'd need to see the episode again.

[United States of Natan]

I bet General Howe would LOVE to know Zaheer's techniques for forcing the Avatar State. I wonder why he didn't just try putting him in mortal danger in the first place.

[The Flood]

I bet General Howe would LOVE to know Zaheer's techniques for forcing the Avatar State. I wonder why he didn't just try putting him in mortal danger in the first place.

Because Howe didn't want to accidentally kill the Avatar...