The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra Thread

[Shemiki]

Do the thing.

Meh...I'm inclined to disagree. The show's good, but it's no Avatar.

[Alaizia]

Do the thing.

Meh...I'm inclined to disagree. The show's good, but it's no Avatar.

Come on. Now I think you are being a little nostalgic.

[Shemiki]

Meh...I'm inclined to disagree. The show's good, but it's no Avatar.

Come on. Now I think you are being a little nostalgic.

Nope. I was watching ATLA recently, so I can compare them fairly. ATLA's still the best, but Korra's very good too.

[United States of Natan]

Come on. Now I think you are being a little nostalgic.

Nope. I was watching ATLA recently, so I can compare them fairly. ATLA's still the best, but Korra's very good too.

yeah, LoK could never live up to its predecessor. Even if they add an evil bloodbender, a dark Avatar, and an evil airbender.

[Flardania]

Personally, the poison in Korra being conveniently metallic, and thus Korra can be saved by a metalbender, is more of a deus ex machina to me, but even that is borderline. It's stupidity on the part of the Red Lotus, IMO, but it's only kinda a true deus ex machina.

Everyone stop saying poison, I bet you it's Mercury.

And Hello everyone nice to meet you.

[Laerod]

Nope. I was watching ATLA recently, so I can compare them fairly. ATLA's still the best, but Korra's very good too.

yeah, LoK could never live up to its predecessor. Even if they add an evil bloodbender, a dark Avatar, and an evil airbender.

Oh, aye. There's two main reasons: The first is the restrictions that fewer episodes per season put on Korra, namely that there weren't as many episodes to explore the characters or the world and the overall lack of a myth arc. The other is that attempts to write Bolin as comic relief fall flat when compared to how ATLA was handled.

Personally, the poison in Korra being conveniently metallic, and thus Korra can be saved by a metalbender, is more of a deus ex machina to me, but even that is borderline. It's stupidity on the part of the Red Lotus, IMO, but it's only kinda a true deus ex machina.

Everyone stop saying poison, I bet you it's Mercury.

And Hello everyone nice to meet you.

They refer to it as poison in the show. That said, it being mercury would still make it a poison.

[The IASM]

yeah, LoK could never live up to its predecessor. Even if they add an evil bloodbender, a dark Avatar, and an evil airbender.

Oh, aye. There's two main reasons: The first is the restrictions that fewer episodes per season put on Korra, namely that there weren't as many episodes to explore the characters or the world and the overall lack of a myth arc. The other is that attempts to write Bolin as comic relief fall flat when compared to how ATLA was handled.

Everyone stop saying poison, I bet you it's Mercury.

And Hello everyone nice to meet you.

They refer to it as poison in the show. That said, it being mercury would still make it a poison.

If it was pure Mercury they shouldn't be possible for Suyin to bend due to it being pure metal, like platinum.

[United States of Natan]

Oh, aye. There's two main reasons: The first is the restrictions that fewer episodes per season put on Korra, namely that there weren't as many episodes to explore the characters or the world and the overall lack of a myth arc. The other is that attempts to write Bolin as comic relief fall flat when compared to how ATLA was handled.

They refer to it as poison in the show. That said, it being mercury would still make it a poison.

If it was pure Mercury they shouldn't be possible for Suyin to bend due to it being pure metal, like platinum.

well then, how did the metalbender that administered the poison bend it?

[Laerod]

Oh, aye. There's two main reasons: The first is the restrictions that fewer episodes per season put on Korra, namely that there weren't as many episodes to explore the characters or the world and the overall lack of a myth arc. The other is that attempts to write Bolin as comic relief fall flat when compared to how ATLA was handled.

They refer to it as poison in the show. That said, it being mercury would still make it a poison.

If it was pure Mercury they shouldn't be possible for Suyin to bend due to it being pure metal, like platinum.

Absolutely irrelevant seeing as whatever it is, Red Lotus goons are seen bending it when it's introduced.

[Reploid Productions]

If it was pure Mercury they shouldn't be possible for Suyin to bend due to it being pure metal, like platinum.

Absolutely irrelevant seeing as whatever it is, Red Lotus goons are seen bending it when it's introduced.

Could have been mercury mixed with something else to make it more bendable? I mean, it's a liquid, so keeping ambient dust and stuff OUT of it (especially in an underground cavern) is going to be pretty difficult.

[Laerod]

Absolutely irrelevant seeing as whatever it is, Red Lotus goons are seen bending it when it's introduced.

Could have been mercury mixed with something else to make it more bendable? I mean, it's a liquid, so keeping ambient dust and stuff OUT of it (especially in an underground cavern) is going to be pretty difficult.

Sure. The issue is, the poison is metalbendable. Whether anyone should be able to bend it might be debatable but whether Suyin in particular should have been able to isn't really debatable.

[United States of Natan]

Could have been mercury mixed with something else to make it more bendable? I mean, it's a liquid, so keeping ambient dust and stuff OUT of it (especially in an underground cavern) is going to be pretty difficult.

Sure. The issue is, the poison is metalbendable. Whether anyone should be able to bend it might be debatable but whether Suyin in particular should have been able to isn't really debatable.

Yes, the key is that Suyin bended it out of the Avatar.

[Mushet]

Well 3rd season was undoubtebly the best so far, wasn't overwhelmed with finale but wasn't displeased either, it was fairly good.

But yes it seems that they handled "Anarchism" rather clumsily as I predicted , don't expect much from a show like this in terms of portraying less known ideologies but after the way they handled the whole bender/non-bender inequality issue the first season it's a bit of a dissapointing trope to the show.

[The Flood]

Well 3rd season was undoubtebly the best so far, wasn't overwhelmed with finale but wasn't displeased either, it was fairly good.
But yes it seems that they handled "Anarchism" rather clumsily as I predicted , don't expect much from a show like this in terms of portraying less known ideologies but after the way they handled the whole bender/non-bender inequality issue the first season it's a bit of a dissapointing trope to the show.

Yeah, they could have just omitted that part about Zaheer wanting the world in chaos, and his ideology would have seemed a lot less insane and unsympathetic.

[Laerod]

Well 3rd season was undoubtebly the best so far, wasn't overwhelmed with finale but wasn't displeased either, it was fairly good.
But yes it seems that they handled "Anarchism" rather clumsily as I predicted , don't expect much from a show like this in terms of portraying less known ideologies but after the way they handled the whole bender/non-bender inequality issue the first season it's a bit of a dissapointing trope to the show.

Yeah, they could have just omitted that part about Zaheer wanting the world in chaos, and his ideology would have seemed a lot less insane and unsympathetic.

They'd have to cut out the parts where he acts like a tyrant as well to avoid that. Remember, he tosses someone into the fog of lost souls for failing him.

[Jaslandia]

Do the thing.

While I think Season 3 was quite impressive, I don't think it's quite as good as A:TLA

Well 3rd season was undoubtebly the best so far, wasn't overwhelmed with finale but wasn't displeased either, it was fairly good.

But yes it seems that they handled "Anarchism" rather clumsily as I predicted , don't expect much from a show like this in terms of portraying less known ideologies but after the way they handled the whole bender/non-bender inequality issue the first season it's a bit of a dissapointing trope to the show.

All things considered, it could have been handled even worse. At least they made Zaheer (and also Amon) out to be closer to a Well-Intentioned Extremist rather than Obviously Evil (e.g. Azula and Ozai). For a kids' show, LoK has had some pretty complex villains (excluding Unalaq).

[The Alma Mater]

Yeah, they could have just omitted that part about Zaheer wanting the world in chaos, and his ideology would have seemed a lot less insane and unsympathetic.

They'd have to cut out the parts where he acts like a tyrant as well to avoid that. Remember, he tosses someone into the fog of lost souls for failing him.

Indeed. "No leaders, except me of course". "We do it for the freedom of the people - so let us threaten to slaughter this whole new nation of peaceful nomads".
Be consistent Zaheer.

[Marcurix]

They'd have to cut out the parts where he acts like a tyrant as well to avoid that. Remember, he tosses someone into the fog of lost souls for failing him.

Indeed. "No leaders, except me of course". "We do it for the freedom of the people - so let us threaten to slaughter this whole new nation of peaceful nomads".
Be consistent Zaheer.

The greater good is rarely black and white, as I believe is the point.

[Laerod]

Indeed. "No leaders, except me of course". "We do it for the freedom of the people - so let us threaten to slaughter this whole new nation of peaceful nomads".
Be consistent Zaheer.

The greater good is rarely black and white, as I believe is the point.

Throwing someone into the fog of lost souls is as close to an act of pure evil as that setting allows.

[Jaslandia]

The greater good is rarely black and white, as I believe is the point.

Throwing someone into the fog of lost souls is as close to an act of pure evil as that setting allows.

We still don't know what exactly Zaheer meant when he said

Aiwei

was the loose end, so Zaheer may have had pragmatic reasons for it.

As for Zaheer taking the Air Nation, that does seem like hypocrisy, but on the other hand, it could have been an "the end justifies the means" type of move. Keep in mind we don't know what Zaheer would have done to them if Team Avatar lost and Korra was captured. Zaheer could have killed the Airbenders before Korra even got to the temple, so simply slaughtering them may not have been Zaheer's plan.

[United States of Natan]

Throwing someone into the fog of lost souls is as close to an act of pure evil as that setting allows.

We still don't know what exactly Zaheer meant when he said

Aiwei

was the loose end, so Zaheer may have had pragmatic reasons for it.

As for Zaheer taking the Air Nation, that does seem like hypocrisy, but on the other hand, it could have been an "the end justifies the means" type of move. Keep in mind we don't know what Zaheer would have done to them if Team Avatar lost and Korra was captured. Zaheer could have killed the Airbenders before Korra even got to the temple, so simply slaughtering them may not have been Zaheer's plan.

What I still can't believe is that Zaheer threatened a SECOND Air Nomad Genocide. Seriously, if he had destroyed the air nomads again and the Avatar Cycle, he would have been no better the leaders he opposed (Such as Ozai and Sozin), if not worse! As for his ultimate plans, chaos would not have solved everything, because, after reviewing multiple scenarios, they all would have ended badly for the Red Lotus:

1. Vaatu ultimately would have sought a host to form the Dark Avatar, who would have ultimately possibly attempted to take over the world in a fashion similar to Ozai's plans during Sozin's Comet.
2. the Dark Avatar would cause too much Chaos, more than Zaheer would have wanted, and would have enslaved humanity rather than granting them freedom.
3. People, or the Avatar, would rise up against the Dark Avatar, and, with knowledge of how to end an Avatar Cycle, would have invoked the Dark Avatar State, and destroyed the Dark Avatar.
4. They would not be able to destroy Korra or the Avatar Cycle, because Raava would have warned Korra, and either way, they would not have been able to chain up the Avatar, and when Korra inevitably enters the Avatar State, she would have destroyed them.
5. No matter what, through any chaos that might be caused, leaders will inevitably emerge from the chaos, people will look up to them, police forces will be formed, and governments will then form, no matter what.

In addition, clearly Zaheer underestimated the Avatar State. to elaborate on Roku's words, The Avatar State is a defense mechanism, designed to empower the Avatar with near limitless cosmic and spiritual energy, as well as the skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars. The Avatar State has allowed the Avatar to destroy cities, palaces, temples, fortresses, create huge, hurricane-strength gust of winds, erupt numerous volcanoes all at once, destroy entire armies, split and reseal entire glaciers (this example is demonstrated by the Dark Avatar, however), even separate entire peninsulas from the mainland and push them out to sea. There is absolutely no way that 3 benders, even at master level, can surpass or defeat an Avatar who has entered the reflexive/continuous Avatar State, even when held in platinum chains, thus the reason why the red lotus was immediately overwhelmed by Korra's strength while in the Avatar State.

[Laerod]

Throwing someone into the fog of lost souls is as close to an act of pure evil as that setting allows.

We still don't know what exactly Zaheer meant when he said

Aiwei

was the loose end, so Zaheer may have had pragmatic reasons for it.

As for Zaheer taking the Air Nation, that does seem like hypocrisy, but on the other hand, it could have been an "the end justifies the means" type of move. Keep in mind we don't know what Zaheer would have done to them if Team Avatar lost and Korra was captured. Zaheer could have killed the Airbenders before Korra even got to the temple, so simply slaughtering them may not have been Zaheer's plan.

End justifies the means? Throwing someone into the fog of lost souls or stealing their face are the two worst possible things anyone has ever done on that show to an individual. Even killing someone still gives them a shot at an afterlife. Subjecting someone to the fog of lost souls condemns them to an eternity of madness. There is no pragmatic reason for that given just how far beyond killing someone that goes.

[Laerod]

In addition, clearly Zaheer underestimated the Avatar State. to elaborate on Roku's words, The Avatar State is a defense mechanism, designed to empower the Avatar with near limitless cosmic and spiritual energy, as well as the skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars. The Avatar State has allowed the Avatar to destroy cities, palaces, temples, fortresses, create huge, hurricane-strength gust of winds, erupt numerous volcanoes all at once, destroy entire armies, split and reseal entire glaciers (this example is demonstrated by the Dark Avatar, however), even separate entire peninsulas from the mainland and push them out to sea. There is absolutely no way that 3 benders, even at master level, can surpass or defeat an Avatar who has entered the reflexive/continuous Avatar State, even when held in platinum chains, thus the reason why the red lotus was immediately overwhelmed by Korra's strength while in the Avatar State.

Honestly, I felt that was more of a moment of fridge brilliance. If we assume that Korra would be able to level cities if in the Avatar State, then there isn't really anything that could hold her. Zaheer, however, has no choice but to kill her while she's in the Avatar State to end the cycle. So there's literally no way around getting her into a state where she can break free from pretty much whatever they lock her into.

Secondly, the avatar is vulnerable in the Avatar State. There being no way to kill one is nonsense; Azula, for all accounts and purposes, managed to fatally injure Aang (the only thing that saved him was Katara's healing and some very special water). Ozai held his own against Aang (albeit with the help of Sozin's Comet). Not to mention Roku warned Aang about it, making it rather clear he considered it a risk of some degree. Three benders stand a reasonable chance at killing an avatar in the Avatar State.

But the thing is, they didn't have to. The Red Lotus poisoned Korra; all they really needed to do was keep her from getting help before it was too late. So they had precious little to lose in trying to kill her before that happened, so attempting to kill her as soon as she was in the Avatar State makes perfect sense. There's no reason not to try to end a furious avatar sooner even if ultimately it would be the poison that kills her.

Zaheer did the best he could with what he had.

[United States of Natan]

In addition, clearly Zaheer underestimated the Avatar State. to elaborate on Roku's words, The Avatar State is a defense mechanism, designed to empower the Avatar with near limitless cosmic and spiritual energy, as well as the skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars. The Avatar State has allowed the Avatar to destroy cities, palaces, temples, fortresses, create huge, hurricane-strength gust of winds, erupt numerous volcanoes all at once, destroy entire armies, split and reseal entire glaciers (this example is demonstrated by the Dark Avatar, however), even separate entire peninsulas from the mainland and push them out to sea. There is absolutely no way that 3 benders, even at master level, can surpass or defeat an Avatar who has entered the reflexive/continuous Avatar State, even when held in platinum chains, thus the reason why the red lotus was immediately overwhelmed by Korra's strength while in the Avatar State.

Honestly, I felt that was more of a moment of fridge brilliance. If we assume that Korra would be able to level cities if in the Avatar State, then there isn't really anything that could hold her. Zaheer, however, has no choice but to kill her while she's in the Avatar State to end the cycle. So there's literally no way around getting her into a state where she can break free from pretty much whatever they lock her into.

Secondly, the avatar is vulnerable in the Avatar State. There being no way to kill one is nonsense; Azula, for all accounts and purposes, managed to fatally injure Aang (the only thing that saved him was Katara's healing and some very special water). Ozai held his own against Aang (albeit with the help of Sozin's Comet). Not to mention Roku warned Aang about it, making it rather clear he considered it a risk of some degree. Three benders stand a reasonable chance at killing an avatar in the Avatar State.

But the thing is, they didn't have to. The Red Lotus poisoned Korra; all they really needed to do was keep her from getting help before it was too late. So they had precious little to lose in trying to kill her before that happened, so attempting to kill her as soon as she was in the Avatar State makes perfect sense. There's no reason not to try to end a furious avatar sooner even if ultimately it would be the poison that kills her.

Zaheer did the best he could with what he had.

Yes, but Azula's attack was a surprise attack that Aang did not see coming and could not counter, and lightning is far faster than a water whip, lava and rocks, or an airbending blast. In addition, When Korra entered the Avatar State, the Avatar State was being activated with the intent of defending the Avatar, Aang entered it with the intent of simply mastering it. Besides that, lightning is not easily counterable, whereas Korra could easily counter a water whip with fire breath, bend a rock from the ceiling to knock Ming Hua out, then airbend Gazan's lava back at him. Aang would not have been able to do that, as he lacked firebending, and was, once again, attacked by lightning, which is incredibly fast and hard to counter.

[Laerod]

Honestly, I felt that was more of a moment of fridge brilliance. If we assume that Korra would be able to level cities if in the Avatar State, then there isn't really anything that could hold her. Zaheer, however, has no choice but to kill her while she's in the Avatar State to end the cycle. So there's literally no way around getting her into a state where she can break free from pretty much whatever they lock her into.

Secondly, the avatar is vulnerable in the Avatar State. There being no way to kill one is nonsense; Azula, for all accounts and purposes, managed to fatally injure Aang (the only thing that saved him was Katara's healing and some very special water). Ozai held his own against Aang (albeit with the help of Sozin's Comet). Not to mention Roku warned Aang about it, making it rather clear he considered it a risk of some degree. Three benders stand a reasonable chance at killing an avatar in the Avatar State.

But the thing is, they didn't have to. The Red Lotus poisoned Korra; all they really needed to do was keep her from getting help before it was too late. So they had precious little to lose in trying to kill her before that happened, so attempting to kill her as soon as she was in the Avatar State makes perfect sense. There's no reason not to try to end a furious avatar sooner even if ultimately it would be the poison that kills her.

Zaheer did the best he could with what he had.

Yes, but Azula's attack was a surprise attack that Aang did not see coming and could not counter, and lightning is far faster than a water whip, lava and rocks, or an airbending blast. In addition, When Korra entered the Avatar State, the Avatar State was being activated with the intent of defending the Avatar, Aang entered it with the intent of simply mastering it. Besides that, lightning is not easily counterable, whereas Korra could easily counter a water whip with fire breath, bend a rock from the ceiling to knock Ming Hua out, then airbend Gazan's lava back at him. Aang would not have been able to do that, as he lacked firebending, and was, once again, attacked by lightning, which is incredibly fast and hard to counter.

I fail to see how there's any sort of meaningful difference between the Avatar State and... the Avatar State. You cited Kyoshi splitting Kyoshi Island from the mainland and that clearly wasn't a defensive form, so it's doubtful there even is a difference regarding what activates the Avatar State. Beyond that, Aang wasn't chained up. Regardless of Korra's power to break the chains, they still inhibit movement and thus her ability to bend. Her being easily able to counter anything is a stretch. Overall, killing Korra may have been harder than killing Aang with lightning, but it wasn't impossible (which is what you were saying). It would have been a challenge, but everyone, including Korra, felt that they had the potential to pull it off.

That said, even if it was impossible to kill Korra, that doesn't make Zaheer a fool for trying. He had to put her in the Avatar State and kill her to end the cycle. There was no way for him to avoid an overpowered Korra. So he's basically faced with the choice of letting Korra run around unimpeded in the Avatar State until the poison works, possibly killing him and his cohorts, or he tries to kill her, even if the chances are slim, risking her killing him and his cohorts before the poison works if they don't manage to kill her outright.

Zaheer made the smartest move he could given the circumstances, forcing Korra to struggle against entering the Avatar State and thus giving the poison more time to work and forcing Korra to fight him and his cohorts and thus giving the poison more time to work. And let's not forget the real reason that he didn't manage to kill her was because she's the protagonist. Other than concerns about Legend of Korra killing off the titular character, there's nothing to indicate here life truly wasn't in danger.