The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra Thread

[Ameriganastan]

Azula is an overrated bitch who lives for her daddies attention.

[IshCong]

Azula is the epitome of awesomeness. She can be fragile like a paper and hard like metal. She is definatly the most interesting and complicated character in Avatar. And gues what:

We love her just for that.

IshCong, you dare questioning the brilliance of Azula? Really? Azula who conquered the unconquerable capital city of your greatest enemy with no army, just with her wits and the help of two girls?
The same Azula? Tsk...

There's more to intelligence than one planned operation which she only barely deserves credit for. Long Feng and the Dai Li did the heavy lifting there, and had held power over Ba Sing Se long before she even showed up. Azula just convinced them to change sides, which was practically done for her when Long Feng was imprisoned. She waltzed in on a situation already primed for a coup, and just...suggested one. That hardly indicates any vast brilliance.

She's got a cruel sort of cunning, but she's never been nearly as intelligent as many other characters. Especially by the end, when she's little more than a gibbering wreck. Iroh. Bumi. Piandao. Guru Pathik. Gyatso. Roku. Take your pick, really. There's no shortage of intelligent characters here.

[Alaizia]

Azula is an overrated bitch who lives for her daddies attention.

Haters gonna hate. Especially those who idolize the average empty slut teenage girl.

[Ameriganastan]

Azula is an overrated bitch who lives for her daddies attention.

Haters gonna hate. Especially those who idolize the average empty slut teenage girl.

I don't idolize Korra.
Oh!

[New haven america]

Azula is the epitome of awesomeness. She can be fragile like a paper and hard like metal. She is definatly the most interesting and complicated character in Avatar. And gues what:

We love her just for that.

IshCong, you dare questioning the brilliance of Azula? Really? Azula who conquered the unconquerable capital city of your greatest enemy with no army, just with her wits and the help of two girls?
The same Azula? Tsk...

You didn't see her mental breakdown?(And it just wasn't her and 2 girls, she used the secret guard of Ba Sing Se)

[Theocracy of Soviet Proletariats]

Oh my goddess I've wondered where this show would be hosted online.

[Alaizia]

Azula is the epitome of awesomeness. She can be fragile like a paper and hard like metal. She is definatly the most interesting and complicated character in Avatar. And gues what:

We love her just for that.

IshCong, you dare questioning the brilliance of Azula? Really? Azula who conquered the unconquerable capital city of your greatest enemy with no army, just with her wits and the help of two girls?
The same Azula? Tsk...

There's more to intelligence than one planned operation which she only barely deserves credit for. Long Feng and the Dai Li did the heavy lifting there, and had held power over Ba Sing Se long before she even showed up. Azula just convinced them to change sides, which was practically done for her when Long Feng was imprisoned. She waltzed in on a situation already primed for a coup, and just...suggested one. That hardly indicates any vast brilliance.

She's got a cruel sort of cunning, but she's never been nearly as intelligent as many other characters. Especially by the end, when she's little more than a gibbering wreck. Iroh. Bumi. Piandao. Guru Pathik. Gyatso. Roku. Take your pick, really. There's no shortage of intelligent characters here.

Dude, she USED them. A girl manipulated an entire foreign secret organisation and in the end she reflipped the tables after Long Feng (though he) flipped them. He manipulated even him, delivering in the end one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) line in Avatar. Notice from 0.20 and after how she "plays" him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2hR2yodFTo

She succeded where her fat (yet awesome) uncle failed. And without a life lost. "Perfect Victory" according to Sun Tzu.
And Piandao, Guru Pathik, Gyatso, Roku etc are all, mostly, the spiritual kind. I'll give them that. But not the amazing strategists you seem to think. Damn, even the Avatar Roku was tricked and caught a fool in the end by Fire Lord Sozin.

Azula was prodigious in everything. Just like her grandfather, Fire Lord Azulon. After all, that's where her name came from. If Ozai had succeded in his conquest and Azula kept sane, in the end, she would definatly become more powerful than he ever was, Sozin's Comet or not.

[Alaizia]

Haters gonna hate. Especially those who idolize the average empty slut teenage girl.

I don't idolize Korra.
Oh!

I was talking about Ty Lee.....

But whatever.

[IshCong]

There's more to intelligence than one planned operation which she only barely deserves credit for. Long Feng and the Dai Li did the heavy lifting there, and had held power over Ba Sing Se long before she even showed up. Azula just convinced them to change sides, which was practically done for her when Long Feng was imprisoned. She waltzed in on a situation already primed for a coup, and just...suggested one. That hardly indicates any vast brilliance.

She's got a cruel sort of cunning, but she's never been nearly as intelligent as many other characters. Especially by the end, when she's little more than a gibbering wreck. Iroh. Bumi. Piandao. Guru Pathik. Gyatso. Roku. Take your pick, really. There's no shortage of intelligent characters here.

Dude, she USED them. A girl manipulated an entire foreign secret organisation and in the end she reflipped the tables after Long Feng (though he) flipped them. He manipulated even him, delivering in the end one of the greatest (if not THE greatest) line in Avatar. Notice from 0.20 and after how she "plays" him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2hR2yodFTo

I've seen the scene. It took no particular brilliance on Azula's part though. The Dai Li, which Long Feng put in place and made powerful, did all the work of the coup. They then had to decide whether Long Feng or Azula would be more powerful after the coup, something that both Long Feng and Azula realized from the beginning. Anyone with even cursory knowledge of coups would know that was coming. Long Feng just overestimated the loyalty of the Dai Li and thought they would side with him rather than Azula.

Azula isn't brilliant because Long Feng miscalculated. She isn't displaying any real brilliance at all here. She used an organization someone else built. She didn't even have to convince them to change sides because Long Feng's fall had already done that for her. She didn't even have to convince the Dai Li to betray Long Feng, since her birth gave her the power (ie, the Fire Nation military) that ensured the Dai Li would side with her over the powerless Long Feng. She even points this out using the horribly flawed model of divine right to rule, which any really intelligent person would realize is nonsense.

She succeded where her fat (yet awesome) uncle failed. And without a life lost. "Perfect Victory" according to Sun Tzu.
And Piandao, Guru Pathik, Gyatso, Roku etc are all, mostly, the spiritual kind. I'll give them that. But not the amazing strategists you seem to think. Damn, even the Avatar Roku was tricked and caught a fool in the end by Fire Lord Sozin.

I never said any of those men were strategists. I said they were intelligent. One can be intelligent without being a strategist. You're the only one assigning military skills as the primary measure of intelligence.
Sozin was also intelligent, despite his...unpleasantness.

Azula was prodigious in everything. Just like her grandfather, Fire Lord Azulon. After all, that's where her name came from. If Ozai had succeded in his conquest and Azula kept sane, in the end, she would definatly become more powerful than he ever was, Sozin's Comet or not.

Except she didn't remain sane, did she? She fell into an insane mess over her daddy issues. So much for any 'intelligence' or 'power' she ever had, by that point.

[Edward Richtofen]

I frankly think Ozai has very little fire bending talent. Iroh is the more powerful of the two but I don't think either of them can beat Azulon

[Ameriganastan]

I frankly think Ozai has very little fire bending talent. Iroh is the more powerful of the two but I don't think either of them can beat Azulon

Iroh himself said he most likely couldn't beat Ozai.

[Edward Richtofen]

I frankly think Ozai has very little fire bending talent. Iroh is the more powerful of the two but I don't think either of them can beat Azulon

Iroh himself said he most likely couldn't beat Ozai.

Iroh is also much more weary and older, but if he was younger with the same knowledge in his advanced age he'd whop Ozai

[Constaniana]

I think Azula is the smartest, funniest, prettiest and the most powerful character of the entire franchise. Sure Toph is funny (she is my third favourite character after Azula and Aang) but Azula trumps her in all categories (except earth bending of course)

Someone's been hitting the cactus juice hard. Seriously, if she's the most powerful character then how was Zuko beating her in raw firebending in the finale?

[Edward Richtofen]

I think Azula is the smartest, funniest, prettiest and the most powerful character of the entire franchise. Sure Toph is funny (she is my third favourite character after Azula and Aang) but Azula trumps her in all categories (except earth bending of course)

Someone's been hitting the cactus juice hard. Seriously, if she's the most powerful character then how was Zuko beating her in raw firebending in the finale?

Azula's crazier than Eren jaeger in the finale

[Constaniana]

Someone's been hitting the cactus juice hard. Seriously, if she's the most powerful character then how was Zuko beating her in raw firebending in the finale?

Azula's crazier than Eren jaeger in the finale

Certainly. Bit if she's so amazingly perfect and powerful in every way then why was Zuko stomping her bitch ass up until the point he sacrifices himself so Katara doesn't get shot with lightning, only for Katara to outwit the "smartest" character in the series?

[The IASM]

Azula's crazier than Eren jaeger in the finale

Certainly. Bit if she's so amazingly perfect and powerful in every way then why was Zuko stomping her bitch ass up until the point he sacrifices himself so Katara doesn't get shot with lightning, only for Katara to outwit the "smartest" character in the series?

Was the smartest however she lost all sanity as her sources of power were removed so quickly that she went absolutely insane. Trust me Azula is one of the best characters when she is functioning properly however right now she isn't unfortunately.

[Alaizia]

I've seen the scene. It took no particular brilliance on Azula's part though. The Dai Li, which Long Feng put in place and made powerful, did all the work of the coup. They then had to decide whether Long Feng or Azula would be more powerful after the coup, something that both Long Feng and Azula realized from the beginning. Anyone with even cursory knowledge of coups would know that was coming. Long Feng just overestimated the loyalty of the Dai Li and thought they would side with him rather than Azula.

Don't you understand that she came, she saw, she conquered just like that? Long Feng put them there and made them who they were then and Azula came and took them out of his hands. She impressed them far more as showed in the end. Azula outdoes Long Feng in everything. Period.

Azula isn't brilliant because Long Feng miscalculated. She isn't displaying any real brilliance at all here. She used an organization someone else built. She didn't even have to convince them to change sides because Long Feng's fall had already done that for her. She didn't even have to convince the Dai Li to betray Long Feng, since her birth gave her the power (ie, the Fire Nation military) that ensured the Dai Li would side with her over the powerless Long Feng. She even points this out using the horribly flawed model of divine right to rule, which any really intelligent person would realize is nonsense.

Yeah, she is THAT badass that made her number 1 enemy's secret organisation of elite earthbenders follow her. And Long Feng's fall? Irrelevant. His fault. And as for the "divine right to rule" speech, come on, she is Azula, in times like those were and with the talent she had. She wasn't exaggerating. She is selfish. That's who she is. For example, Zuko is hotheaded. That's who he is. Period.

I never said any of those men were strategists. I said they were intelligent. One can be intelligent without being a strategist. You're the only one assigning military skills as the primary measure of intelligence.
Sozin was also intelligent, despite his...unpleasantness.

Irrelevant, we are talking about a military/political success of grand importance here. Military and strategic skills are necessery.

Except she didn't remain sane, did she? She fell into an insane mess over her daddy issues. So much for any 'intelligence' or 'power' she ever had, by that point.

Again, irrelevant. Why Azula fell into insanity is an other very deep matter. Don't get me started on with this. We can discuss it some other time if you want.

[IshCong]

I've seen the scene. It took no particular brilliance on Azula's part though. The Dai Li, which Long Feng put in place and made powerful, did all the work of the coup. They then had to decide whether Long Feng or Azula would be more powerful after the coup, something that both Long Feng and Azula realized from the beginning. Anyone with even cursory knowledge of coups would know that was coming. Long Feng just overestimated the loyalty of the Dai Li and thought they would side with him rather than Azula.

Don't you understand that she came, she saw, she conquered just like that? Long Feng put them there and made them who they were then and Azula came and took them out of his hands. She impressed them far more as showed in the end. Azula outdoes Long Feng in everything. Period.

Azula isn't brilliant because Long Feng miscalculated. She isn't displaying any real brilliance at all here. She used an organization someone else built. She didn't even have to convince them to change sides because Long Feng's fall had already done that for her. She didn't even have to convince the Dai Li to betray Long Feng, since her birth gave her the power (ie, the Fire Nation military) that ensured the Dai Li would side with her over the powerless Long Feng. She even points this out using the horribly flawed model of divine right to rule, which any really intelligent person would realize is nonsense.

Yeah, she is THAT badass that made her number 1 enemy's secret organisation of elite earthbenders follow her. And Long Feng's fall? Irrelevant. His fault. And as for the "divine right to rule" speech, come on, she is Azula, in times like those were and with the talent she had. She wasn't exaggerating. She is selfish. That's who she is. For example, Zuko is hotheaded. That's who he is. Period.

It took no intelligence on Azula's part to turn the Dai Li though. As I've pointed out repeatedly, that was done for her. Ever since they had been outed and Long Feng imprisoned, which Azula had no real part in. They had betrayed the Earth Kingdom for an extended period of time even before Azula showed up, had lost the power they had enjoyed, and were looking to gain it back again before Azula showed up. All Azula did was show up and offer to grant them the protection of the dominant military power in the world. Any fool could see that would work, and it took no exceptional intelligence on Azula's part to make the offer or to garner the power that won the Dai Li over (since she was literally born to it).
Long Feng being incompetent (which is honestly debatable) and/or forced into a terrible strategic position by third parties doesn't make Azula intelligent. Besting incompetents does not make one intelligent. At least, it doesn't make one the superlative intelligence in this series.

Yes, Azula's rampant egotism and selfishness is a part of who she is. These traits are evidence that she is not a particularly intelligent person. She literally has a total mental breakdown because of the same stuff that her blatantly stupid "divine right to rule" belief is founded in. That mentality completely destroyed her mind. You really can't look at that and say she's intelligent.

I never said any of those men were strategists. I said they were intelligent. One can be intelligent without being a strategist. You're the only one assigning military skills as the primary measure of intelligence.
Sozin was also intelligent, despite his...unpleasantness.

Irrelevant, we are talking about a military/political success of grand importance here. Military and strategic skills are necessery.

No, we're not. This topic started with me pointing out there are more intelligent individuals than Azula. You then arbitrarily decided that martial prowess should be the primary measure of intelligence, but that makes no sense. So I refute your assertion that we should place disproportionate value on intelligence in precisely one field out of innumerable possible fields. I mean, really, are we honestly going to say that, for example, Hawking isn't intelligent because he's not a military commander? Einstein? Newton? No, that's silly.

Except she didn't remain sane, did she? She fell into an insane mess over her daddy issues. So much for any 'intelligence' or 'power' she ever had, by that point.

Again, irrelevant. Why Azula fell into insanity is an other very deep matter. Don't get me started on with this. We can discuss it some other time if you want.

It's totally relevant. Insane people are insane and have barely any coherent intelligence to speak of. We're commenting on her intelligence, on Azula's mental faculties. By the end of the series her mental faculties are essentially nonexistent. She starts making incredibly idiotic decisions that lead to her complete and utter downfall in record time because of these issues. If you can point to the coup of Ba Sing Se as proof of her intelligence, I can point to the events leading up to the duel between Azula and Zuko to prove she's not intelligent.

[Alaizia]

It took no intelligence on Azula's part to turn the Dai Li though. As I've pointed out repeatedly, that was done for her. Ever since they had been outed and Long Feng imprisoned, which Azula had no real part in. They had betrayed the Earth Kingdom for an extended period of time even before Azula showed up, had lost the power they had enjoyed, and were looking to gain it back again before Azula showed up. All Azula did was show up and offer to grant them the protection of the dominant military power in the world. Any fool could see that would work, and it took no exceptional intelligence on Azula's part to make the offer or to garner the power that won the Dai Li over (since she was literally born to it).
Long Feng being incompetent (which is honestly debatable) and/or forced into a terrible strategic position by third parties doesn't make Azula intelligent. Besting incompetents does not make one intelligent. At least, it doesn't make one the superlative intelligence in this series.

From Avatar Wikia: "With knowledge of Long Feng's wrongful assumption of power, the Earth King had Long Feng arrested while the Dai Li were forced to serve the king; however, the organization maintained their loyalty to Long Feng.[...]During the Coup of Ba Sing Se, the Dai Li betrayed Long Feng and confirmed their loyalty to Azula."

More proof for that again from Avatar Wikia: "She then implied that they could betray her, to which the group leader replied that they would never betray the princess."

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Dai_Li

Now tell me, did the arrest of their former leader really shortened Dai Li's influence and power? They even visited and conspired with him in jail you know. Whoever controlled the Dai Li, controlled the city at the time. That's a fact. The Dai Li followed Azula out of the her usual command of blending brilliance and terror. The Head of the Dai Li was serious and a bit annoyed on the claim that they would betray her. They wouldn't.
Speaking of: "More than cooperating, she's really taken charge. She's terrifying and inspirational at the same time. It's hard to explain..." ~Head of the Dai Li~

Also: "Nevertheless, the spokesman was deeply shocked of Azula's statements upon his banishment, proving that he trusted the Princess enough to be honestly embittered and upset by this betrayal. In fact, the Head of the Dai Li was loyal toward those whom he vowed to protect, thus his fellow Dai Li agents and Azula. In Azula's case, his loyalty stemmed from his fascination at her abilities and charismatic leadership that originally led him to betray Long Feng."

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Head_of_the_Dai_Li

Yes, Azula's rampant egotism and selfishness is a part of who she is. These traits are evidence that she is not a particularly intelligent person. She literally has a total mental breakdown because of the same stuff that her blatantly stupid "divine right to rule" belief is founded in. That mentality completely destroyed her mind. You really can't look at that and say she's intelligent.

No. Now you showed me that you haven't cared about Azula's character at all.
Her mental breakdown has nothing to do with her statement and/or vise versa. That mentality didn't destroyed her as you say. Azula was born a prodigy like her grandfather and thus, she became a perfectionist, again, like her grandfather. Perfectionists aren't crazy. They are usually very successful. You have little to no true knowledge of Azula's personality.

No, we're not. This topic started with me pointing out there are more intelligent individuals than Azula. You then arbitrarily decided that martial prowess should be the primary measure of intelligence, but that makes no sense. So I refute your assertion that we should place disproportionate value on intelligence in precisely one field out of innumerable possible fields. I mean, really, are we honestly going to say that, for example, Hawking isn't intelligent because he's not a military commander? Einstein? Newton? No, that's silly.

I know what you mean. But there are many types of intelligence. It isn't so simple. For example you are speaking of clean I.Q. or the ability to nicely mix your I.Q. with your E.Q. and in general the rest of you. Many genius people cannot cope up with what we the rest call "everyday life". And more specifically for example, Azula was an expert on manipulating people. She could even lie completly unnoticed and fool almost anyone. But when she did more simple stuff (like chitchat etc) she had troubles, as shown in The Beach episode. Partly through her character, partly through the mentality she was made to build through her piece of crap "parent" Ozai.

It's totally relevant. Insane people are insane and have barely any coherent intelligence to speak of. We're commenting on her intelligence, on Azula's mental faculties. By the end of the series her mental faculties are essentially nonexistent. She starts making incredibly idiotic decisions that lead to her complete and utter downfall in record time because of these issues. If you can point to the coup of Ba Sing Se as proof of her intelligence, I can point to the events leading up to the duel between Azula and Zuko to prove she's not intelligent.

Then point out. Because as far as me and Avatar Wikia are concerned:
"Azula was an extremely intelligent and cunning strategist. She was also a highly studious girl. Since childhood, she was well-versed in her nation's military history as she successfully recounting Fire Lord Sozin's strategy in an old battle. She planned a trap for Iroh and Zuko, which was only accidentally foiled by the captain of her ship." (Iroh may was suspicious, but if that dumbass captain hadn't foiled her plan, she would imprison them in Fire Nation just like that).

Also: "With the Kyoshi warriors finally captured, Azula, Ty Lee, and Mai used their robes, stealing their identities to freely enter Ba Sing Se and the Earth King's palace, beginning her coup against the Earth King. This coup was single-handedly orchestrated by her, winning Ba Sing Se for the Fire Nation. During the Day of Black Sun, she laid a trap for Aang and his friends using Dai Li agents in the Fire Lord's throne room, ensuring that the eclipse time would be used up." (Azula outsmarted Iroh during the initial capture of him and Zuko and in succeding also where he failed, that is conquering Ba Sing Se).

Furthermore: "Even under the effects of her mental illness, her wit and ability to strategize were not completely lost, as she managed to use the after effects of chi blocking, which caused her body joints to become extremely flexible, to free herself from her restraints and from Zuko. On another occasion, she was able to save Team Avatar from a swarm of moth wasps by using a lightning ball to attract them due to the intense light." (No comments really here. Even in mental illness she is resourceful).

Finally: "Azula's intelligence made her very skillful in manipulating people. She used this skill on many subjects, including her brother Zuko, her mother Ursa, Long Feng, the Dai Li, Sokka, and even her father to an extent."

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Azula

I don't understand the hate. She is not even a villain in the sence she is a tragic one, as the events on her life show. She is extremely intelligent, resourceful, cunning, manipulative and adaptable in every situation (even in near-death situations like in The Southern Raiders episode).
Just admit that. I don't get it.

[Constaniana]

Well, the hate for Azula comes from the simple fact that she's a massive bitch. Pretty simple to figure out.

[Alaizia]

Well, the hate for Azula comes from the simple fact that she's a massive bitch. Pretty simple to figure out.

No it's not very simple to figure out. Ozai is a bitch, Ursa is a bitch, Zuko is a bitch (initially). Azula....not really.

[Ameriganastan]

Well, the hate for Azula comes from the simple fact that she's a massive bitch. Pretty simple to figure out.

No it's not very simple to figure out. Ozai is a bitch, Ursa is a bitch, Zuko is a bitch (initially). Azula....not really.

Ursa is a bitch. The chick who assassinated Azulon to save her son from being killed by Ozai and going into exile is a bitch. But Azula, the chick who killed the Avatar(Temporarily) isn't. Oi.

[Auzkhia]

Well, the hate for Azula comes from the simple fact that she's a massive bitch. Pretty simple to figure out.

No it's not very simple to figure out. Ozai is a bitch, Ursa is a bitch, Zuko is a bitch (initially). Azula....not really.

No no!
Zuko is awesome and magnificent, Ursa saved her son, and Ozai sucks at being a Dad. Azula: Fucked up, but magnificent.

[Constaniana]

Well, the hate for Azula comes from the simple fact that she's a massive bitch. Pretty simple to figure out.

No it's not very simple to figure out. Ozai is a bitch, Ursa is a bitch, Zuko is a bitch (initially). Azula....not really.

Zuko's initially kinda bitchy/assholeish, but he has the issues of "My dad burnt half my face off for speaking and banished me from my homeland to go on a snipe hunt", and he gets over that. Azula embraces the bitch side.

No it's not very simple to figure out. Ozai is a bitch, Ursa is a bitch, Zuko is a bitch (initially). Azula....not really.

Ursa is a bitch. The chick who assassinated Azulon to save her son from being killed by Ozai and going into exile is a bitch. But Azula, the chick who killed the Avatar(Temporarily) isn't. Oi.

I agree with Ameri.

[IshCong]

It took no intelligence on Azula's part to turn the Dai Li though. As I've pointed out repeatedly, that was done for her. Ever since they had been outed and Long Feng imprisoned, which Azula had no real part in. They had betrayed the Earth Kingdom for an extended period of time even before Azula showed up, had lost the power they had enjoyed, and were looking to gain it back again before Azula showed up. All Azula did was show up and offer to grant them the protection of the dominant military power in the world. Any fool could see that would work, and it took no exceptional intelligence on Azula's part to make the offer or to garner the power that won the Dai Li over (since she was literally born to it).
Long Feng being incompetent (which is honestly debatable) and/or forced into a terrible strategic position by third parties doesn't make Azula intelligent. Besting incompetents does not make one intelligent. At least, it doesn't make one the superlative intelligence in this series.

From Avatar Wikia: "With knowledge of Long Feng's wrongful assumption of power, the Earth King had Long Feng arrested while the Dai Li were forced to serve the king; however, the organization maintained their loyalty to Long Feng.[...]During the Coup of Ba Sing Se, the Dai Li betrayed Long Feng and confirmed their loyalty to Azula."

More proof for that again from Avatar Wikia: "She then implied that they could betray her, to which the group leader replied that they would never betray the princess."

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Dai_Li

Really. You're relying on statements from the Avatar wiki. Flat assertions. On a wiki. Created by fans. Who have no more authority than you or I.
Do I honestly have to spell out how silly that is? I understand that in informal debates on anonymous forums Wikipedia is fine as a source, but this isn't Wikipedia and these aren't facts that you're citing. They have no more merit than what you or I say when it comes to anything remotely contentious.
If you want to use the Avatar wiki as a source for actual facts, who did what at what time and how, that's one thing. Using it to cite character traits is another entirely.

Now tell me, did the arrest of their former leader really shortened Dai Li's influence and power? They even visited and conspired with him in jail you know. Whoever controlled the Dai Li, controlled the city at the time. That's a fact.

Yes. Because any overt departures from the orders issued by the King would result in the Dai Li being condemned for betrayal, again, and likely rounded up by the regular army. They had no choice but to follow orders they didn't actually want to follow or else stage a coup. Those were their options. Acknowledge and accept their total lack of power, or stage a coup. Until they staged that coup, they were following the Earth King's orders and thus had lost their independent power.

The Dai Li followed Azula out of the her usual command of blending brilliance and terror. The Head of the Dai Li was serious and a bit annoyed on the claim that they would betray her. They wouldn't.
Speaking of: "More than cooperating, she's really taken charge. She's terrifying and inspirational at the same time. It's hard to explain..." ~Head of the Dai Li~

They follow her because she's powerful and they have no other alternatives. They were confirmed traitors to the Earth Kingdom and powerless there. Neither Water Tribe would take them. The only remaining place they could have any semblance of power or protection after the coup was in the service of the Fire Nation. If you want to call that terror, sure, but really, being the most powerful person around by virtue of birth and being a cold-hearted bitch who will crush anyone to get what she wants or just because she can does not make one intelligent. She can't even convince her friends to help her without threatening their lives after all.

Also: "Nevertheless, the spokesman was deeply shocked of Azula's statements upon his banishment, proving that he trusted the Princess enough to be honestly embittered and upset by this betrayal. In fact, the Head of the Dai Li was loyal toward those whom he vowed to protect, thus his fellow Dai Li agents and Azula. In Azula's case, his loyalty stemmed from his fascination at her abilities and charismatic leadership that originally led him to betray Long Feng."

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Head_of_the_Dai_Li

Conjecture. He could be shocked for many reasons, like, oh, say, losing the favor of the second most powerful person (by virtue of birth and daddy's favor!) in the world and being cast adrift with no real refuge. That would shock me. That would annoy me.
You're also citing his loyalty to the people he protects as it pertains to Azula, and acting like a that's a concrete character trait while ignoring the elephant in the room that is Long Feng. The man's an opportunist who looks out for himself, not some dog-loyal bodyguard.

Yes, Azula's rampant egotism and selfishness is a part of who she is. These traits are evidence that she is not a particularly intelligent person. She literally has a total mental breakdown because of the same stuff that her blatantly stupid "divine right to rule" belief is founded in. That mentality completely destroyed her mind. You really can't look at that and say she's intelligent.

No. Now you showed me that you haven't cared about Azula's character at all.
Her mental breakdown has nothing to do with her statement and/or vise versa. That mentality didn't destroyed her as you say. Azula was born a prodigy like her grandfather and thus, she became a perfectionist, again, like her grandfather. Perfectionists aren't crazy. They are usually very successful. You have little to no true knowledge of Azula's personality.

Her stupid "divine right to rule" thing isn't an example of perfectionism. A perfectionist strives to attain perfection whereas the "divine right to rule" argument indicates she would already be perfect by virtue of birth alone. That's stupid. It's ignorant. It's wrong. Her association with the "divine right to rule" is tied up in her daddy/familial issues, which directly contribute to her insanity.
There's really no arguing Azula isn't crazy at the end, by the way. I mean, it's blatantly obvious she's padded-room-straitjacket-asylum levels of crazy at the end. There's no getting around that.

No, we're not. This topic started with me pointing out there are more intelligent individuals than Azula. You then arbitrarily decided that martial prowess should be the primary measure of intelligence, but that makes no sense. So I refute your assertion that we should place disproportionate value on intelligence in precisely one field out of innumerable possible fields. I mean, really, are we honestly going to say that, for example, Hawking isn't intelligent because he's not a military commander? Einstein? Newton? No, that's silly.

I know what you mean. But there are many types of intelligence. It isn't so simple. For example you are speaking of clean I.Q. or the ability to nicely mix your I.Q. with your E.Q. and in general the rest of you. Many genius people cannot cope up with what we the rest call "everyday life". And more specifically for example, Azula was an expert on manipulating people. She could even lie completly unnoticed and fool almost anyone. But when she did more simple stuff (like chitchat etc) she had troubles, as shown in The Beach episode. Partly through her character, partly through the mentality she was made to build through her piece of crap "parent" Ozai.

Being an expert on manipulating emotions does not make one intelligent. It makes one manipulative.

I'm the one pointing out there are many types of intelligence. You were the one arbitrarily insisting we take martial knowledge as the primary measure of intelligence to the exclusion of any other type.

It's totally relevant. Insane people are insane and have barely any coherent intelligence to speak of. We're commenting on her intelligence, on Azula's mental faculties. By the end of the series her mental faculties are essentially nonexistent. She starts making incredibly idiotic decisions that lead to her complete and utter downfall in record time because of these issues. If you can point to the coup of Ba Sing Se as proof of her intelligence, I can point to the events leading up to the duel between Azula and Zuko to prove she's not intelligent.

Then point out. Because as far as me and Avatar Wikia are concerned:
"Azula was an extremely intelligent and cunning strategist. She was also a highly studious girl. Since childhood, she was well-versed in her nation's military history as she successfully recounting Fire Lord Sozin's strategy in an old battle. She planned a trap for Iroh and Zuko, which was only accidentally foiled by the captain of her ship." (Iroh may was suspicious, but if that dumbass captain hadn't foiled her plan, she would imprison them in Fire Nation just like that).

Also: "With the Kyoshi warriors finally captured, Azula, Ty Lee, and Mai used their robes, stealing their identities to freely enter Ba Sing Se and the Earth King's palace, beginning her coup against the Earth King. This coup was single-handedly orchestrated by her, winning Ba Sing Se for the Fire Nation. During the Day of Black Sun, she laid a trap for Aang and his friends using Dai Li agents in the Fire Lord's throne room, ensuring that the eclipse time would be used up." (Azula outsmarted Iroh during the initial capture of him and Zuko and in succeding also where he failed, that is conquering Ba Sing Se).

Furthermore: "Even under the effects of her mental illness, her wit and ability to strategize were not completely lost, as she managed to use the after effects of chi blocking, which caused her body joints to become extremely flexible, to free herself from her restraints and from Zuko. On another occasion, she was able to save Team Avatar from a swarm of moth wasps by using a lightning ball to attract them due to the intense light." (No comments really here. Even in mental illness she is resourceful).

Finally: "Azula's intelligence made her very skillful in manipulating people. She used this skill on many subjects, including her brother Zuko, her mother Ursa, Long Feng, the Dai Li, Sokka, and even her father to an extent."

http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Azula

You're citing assertions as if they were facts again. At least use your own arguments and statements, they have the same merit as what some random, semi-anonymous poster to the Avatar wiki says anyway.

I don't understand the hate. She is not even a villain in the sence she is a tragic one, as the events on her life show. She is extremely intelligent, resourceful, cunning, manipulative and adaptable in every situation (even in near-death situations like in The Southern Raiders episode).
Just admit that. I don't get it.

Are you serious? I could point out the long list of betrayals, the treatment of her 'friends' and family, her role in the Fire Nation, but really, I think the fact that she was complicit in a plan to wipe out the majority of the population of the world should say it all for me.
She's blatantly villainous and she takes a sadistic pleasure out of being cruel for the sake of being cruel. That's not tragic. That's just evil.

I don't hate her, though I don't like her. I just don't think she's particularly intelligent, and she's certainly not the most intelligent person in the show, by any metric. Even if you want to focus solely on martial knowledge there are smarter individuals.