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The Star Wars vs. WH40K Debate

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Which series do you prefer [Not who wins.]

Star Wars
266
37%
WH40k
218
30%
Halo
69
10%
Combination of each
42
6%
All of them
70
10%
Other
54
8%
 
Total votes : 719

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Transhuman Proteus
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Postby Transhuman Proteus » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:04 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:At least in terms of size, they are dwarfed by Imperium of Man warships. Comparing anything else, though, is kind of daft because Warhammer doesn't give a whole lot in the way of concrete numbers, and Star Wars' own numbers have undergone constant, steady inflation in the expanded universe.

What can we compare? Well, Imperial Guardsmen and Imperial Stormtroopers have basically the same MO: mooks with flashlights and flackjackets, but lots of cool support tech (tanks and walkers). But there really is no direct comparison for the Spess Mehreens. Given the feats described, 40k psykers are definitely more powerful than Jedi/Sith on average.


You can't really tell with the Space Marines. With the actual game, they're fairly average, at least when you compare them to their feats in the books and general stories; take, for example, the Zeist Campaign (which I just remembered from the Space Marine Codex). Apparently, one chapter (well, a group with a strength equal to a Chapter) of Space Marines can take on, and defeat, the majority of the Tau invasion force into the Imperium. The, when you play them, it's about a 2:1 kill ratio with Tau soldiers on a good day.


Game balance does make it hard. I guess it depends on what one relies on, the fiction which has half exploded marines dragging themselves around and still killing cultists or going weeks with virtually no sleep while holding off orks forces that out number them 100 to 1 or the game which does make it possible for an Imperial Guardsman to bring one down (course from the games I've watched it seems to be "throw enough mud and some will stick, fire at 10 space marines with a tank and 20-30 guardsmen and eventually some of the marines will die").

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Raziac
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Postby Raziac » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:05 pm

W40K would win on the ground. 1 Beta psyker beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight, 5 Grey Knights beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight. 1 Emperor class Titan beats 5 AT-ST's. In space……… not using FTL drives that rely on going through hell is a bonus. And bio-bombs are awesome.
FT-Prime. Stand your ground laws in effect. A country of human beings living in a bi-solar planetary system.
DEFCON 10
STANDBY LEVEL; 5
BUYING; Uranium
Step 1: Take 5% of my population.
Step 2: Go to nsecomomy, find Raziac.
Step 3: Find Unemployed but Able and Criminal numbers.
Step 4: Divide Unemployed but Able by 4.
Step 5: Add new Unemployed but Able total to the 5%.
Step 6: Divide Criminals by 35.
Step 7: Add new Criminal total to the Unemployed but Able and 5%.
Step 8: Done!
We support alternative energy, or in Emperor Palpatine's words UNLIMITED PPOOWWWAAHHHHHHH!!!!

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Kalmarium wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:I think the only thing that can be reasonably concluded is that a conflict between the Star Wars Galactic Empire and the Imperium of Man would not be advantageous to either. Likely, it would be ruinous to both with the amount of blood and treasure that would be spent.

While Khorne masturbates to the bloodshed...

More blood for the Blood God! Carnage in the realms of the mortal means bloody orgies in the unholy halls of Khorne's domain!
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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The Zeonic States
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Founded: Jul 29, 2012
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Postby The Zeonic States » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:26 pm

Raziac wrote:W40K would win on the ground. 1 Beta psyker beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight, 5 Grey Knights beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight. 1 Emperor class Titan beats 5 AT-ST's. In space……… not using FTL drives that rely on going through hell is a bonus. And bio-bombs are awesome.


One on One? I would beat on any Sith lord of skill fighting against a beta level Psyker of any race.

And Gray Knights are not overly impressive unless if fighting together; I wonder how impressive they would be with ruptured Lungs or lightning frying their organs to a crisp. Or a Lightsaber beheading them; That would be fun seeing as how the Light Saber can only be countered by a handful of materials which might not even exist in the Imperium.

Palpatine? Hell i bet he could go toe to toe with The Emperor. (Espeically given that only one of them can friggin move :lol2: )

I would bet on the Force Over coming this Mental psychic Crap like i said Yesterday.
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Priory Academy USSR
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Founded: May 04, 2012
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:28 pm

The Zeonic States wrote:
Raziac wrote:W40K would win on the ground. 1 Beta psyker beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight, 5 Grey Knights beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight. 1 Emperor class Titan beats 5 AT-ST's. In space……… not using FTL drives that rely on going through hell is a bonus. And bio-bombs are awesome.


One on One? I would beat on any Sith lord of skill fighting against a beta level Psyker of any race.

And Gray Knights are not overly impressive unless if fighting together; I wonder how impressive they would be with ruptured Lungs or lightning frying their organs to a crisp. Or a Lightsaber beheading them; That would be fun seeing as how the Light Saber can only be countered by a handful of materials which might not even exist in the Imperium.

Palpatine? Hell i bet he could go toe to toe with The Emperor. (Espeically given that only one of them can friggin move :lol2: )

I would bet on the Force Over coming this Mental psychic Crap like i said Yesterday.


To use the game, Grey Knight Terminators have a 2+ invunerable save, so basically, their armour has a chance to stop anything. Anything at all.
Call me what you will. Some people prefer 'Idiot'
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The Zeonic States
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Founded: Jul 29, 2012
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Postby The Zeonic States » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:30 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
The Zeonic States wrote:
One on One? I would beat on any Sith lord of skill fighting against a beta level Psyker of any race.

And Gray Knights are not overly impressive unless if fighting together; I wonder how impressive they would be with ruptured Lungs or lightning frying their organs to a crisp. Or a Lightsaber beheading them; That would be fun seeing as how the Light Saber can only be countered by a handful of materials which might not even exist in the Imperium.

Palpatine? Hell i bet he could go toe to toe with The Emperor. (Espeically given that only one of them can friggin move :lol2: )

I would bet on the Force Over coming this Mental psychic Crap like i said Yesterday.


To use the game, Grey Knight Terminators have a 2+ invunerable save, so basically, their armour has a chance to stop anything. Anything at all.


And How would that translate out of game? They have a low percent chance for an attack to be blocked by armor? And aren't the Terminators basically the heads of their order? The grand Master or whatever?

I don't recall extending the invite to them when it wasn't offered we were discussing their more run of the mill cousins.
National Imperialist-Freedom Party

Proud member of the stone wall alliance

Agent Maine: of NSG's Official Project Freelancer

[Fires of the Old Republic Role Play]http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=239203

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Primordial Luxa
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Posts: 12092
Founded: Oct 30, 2012
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Postby Primordial Luxa » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:32 pm

The Zeonic States wrote:
Raziac wrote:W40K would win on the ground. 1 Beta psyker beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight, 5 Grey Knights beats Sith Lord/Jedi Knight. 1 Emperor class Titan beats 5 AT-ST's. In space……… not using FTL drives that rely on going through hell is a bonus. And bio-bombs are awesome.


One on One? I would beat on any Sith lord of skill fighting against a beta level Psyker of any race.

And Gray Knights are not overly impressive unless if fighting together; I wonder how impressive they would be with ruptured Lungs or lightning frying their organs to a crisp. Or a Lightsaber beheading them; That would be fun seeing as how the Light Saber can only be countered by a handful of materials which might not even exist in the Imperium.

Palpatine? Hell i bet he could go toe to toe with The Emperor. (Espeically given that only one of them can friggin move :lol2: )

I would bet on the Force Over coming this Mental psychic Crap like i said Yesterday.


Im putting my money on the warp.
There NOOOOO way Palpatine could come close to the emperor
Arhimans a better comparison and even then the guys a little out classed.
psychic have nothing to do with with mental abilities and lightning seems to have a terrible profile in the game
(strength 8 AP 5) is not a threat to most.
Swith Witherward wrote:But I trust the people here. Well, except Prim. He has shifty eyes but his cute smile make up for it.

Monfrox wrote:But it's not like we've known Prim to really stick with normality...

P2TM wrote:HORROR/THRILLER Winner - Community Choice Award For Favorite Horror/Thriller Player: Primordial Luxa


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Priory Academy USSR
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Founded: May 04, 2012
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:40 pm

The Zeonic States wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
To use the game, Grey Knight Terminators have a 2+ invunerable save, so basically, their armour has a chance to stop anything. Anything at all.


And How would that translate out of game? They have a low percent chance for an attack to be blocked by armor? And aren't the Terminators basically the heads of their order? The grand Master or whatever?

I don't recall extending the invite to them when it wasn't offered we were discussing their more run of the mill cousins.


Grey Knight Terminators are placed under the Troops section, so that leads one to assume they are fairly common in the Chapter. Also, 2+ means a roughly 84% chance to block any attacks. And they possess their own version of a lightsaber. And each and every Grey Knight possesses one of these.
Call me what you will. Some people prefer 'Idiot'
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The Zeonic States
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Founded: Jul 29, 2012
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Postby The Zeonic States » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:46 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
The Zeonic States wrote:
And How would that translate out of game? They have a low percent chance for an attack to be blocked by armor? And aren't the Terminators basically the heads of their order? The grand Master or whatever?

I don't recall extending the invite to them when it wasn't offered we were discussing their more run of the mill cousins.


Grey Knight Terminators are placed under the Troops section, so that leads one to assume they are fairly common in the Chapter. Also, 2+ means a roughly 84% chance to block any attacks. And they possess their own version of a lightsaber. And each and every Grey Knight possesses one of these.


Can the Material survive contact with a Lightsaber though? From what you just sourced it stated they were made of a Metal.

Can that Material survive contact with a blade of Pure Plasma that disolves or cuts most Materials instantly?
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Priory Academy USSR
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:48 pm

The Zeonic States wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Grey Knight Terminators are placed under the Troops section, so that leads one to assume they are fairly common in the Chapter. Also, 2+ means a roughly 84% chance to block any attacks. And they possess their own version of a lightsaber. And each and every Grey Knight possesses one of these.


Can the Material survive contact with a Lightsaber though? From what you just sourced it stated they were made of a Metal.

Can that Material survive contact with a blade of Pure Plasma that disolves or cuts most Materials instantly?


No idea, I'm afraid. I know it can, potentially, survive laser blasts from a tank, but that's about it.
Call me what you will. Some people prefer 'Idiot'
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Primordial Luxa
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Postby Primordial Luxa » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:50 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
The Zeonic States wrote:
Can the Material survive contact with a Lightsaber though? From what you just sourced it stated they were made of a Metal.

Can that Material survive contact with a blade of Pure Plasma that disolves or cuts most Materials instantly?


.
No idea, I'm afraid. I know it can, potentially, survive laser blasts from a tank, but that's about it.


Yes because the blade is surrounded by a field of a similar substance
Last edited by Primordial Luxa on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Swith Witherward wrote:But I trust the people here. Well, except Prim. He has shifty eyes but his cute smile make up for it.

Monfrox wrote:But it's not like we've known Prim to really stick with normality...

P2TM wrote:HORROR/THRILLER Winner - Community Choice Award For Favorite Horror/Thriller Player: Primordial Luxa


Factbook (underconstruction)
Personification Life and GAU Posts
Luxan Imperial Narcotics (The ONLY narcotics store on GE&T)

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The Zeonic States
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Postby The Zeonic States » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:52 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
The Zeonic States wrote:
Can the Material survive contact with a Lightsaber though? From what you just sourced it stated they were made of a Metal.

Can that Material survive contact with a blade of Pure Plasma that disolves or cuts most Materials instantly?


No idea, I'm afraid. I know it can, potentially, survive laser blasts from a tank, but that's about it.


Hrm then the Jedi or Sith's most used Weapon or tool might be effective or it might come down to dueling in which case? I can think of Several Notable LightSaber Masters that could dance around those fellows.
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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:53 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:No idea, I'm afraid. I know it can, potentially, survive laser blasts from a tank, but that's about it.

A laser blast from a tank class energy weapon should be significantly stronger and more destructive than the power generated by a puny lightsaber, so it seems like we've got our answer.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Raziac
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Founded: Jun 13, 2012
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Postby Raziac » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:54 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
The Zeonic States wrote:
Can the Material survive contact with a Lightsaber though? From what you just sourced it stated they were made of a Metal.

Can that Material survive contact with a blade of Pure Plasma that disolves or cuts most Materials instantly?


No idea, I'm afraid. I know it can, potentially, survive laser blasts from a tank, but that's about it.

It can, actually. Force field gives 75% chance to destroy any weapon it parries.
FT-Prime. Stand your ground laws in effect. A country of human beings living in a bi-solar planetary system.
DEFCON 10
STANDBY LEVEL; 5
BUYING; Uranium
Step 1: Take 5% of my population.
Step 2: Go to nsecomomy, find Raziac.
Step 3: Find Unemployed but Able and Criminal numbers.
Step 4: Divide Unemployed but Able by 4.
Step 5: Add new Unemployed but Able total to the 5%.
Step 6: Divide Criminals by 35.
Step 7: Add new Criminal total to the Unemployed but Able and 5%.
Step 8: Done!
We support alternative energy, or in Emperor Palpatine's words UNLIMITED PPOOWWWAAHHHHHHH!!!!

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The Zeonic States
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Founded: Jul 29, 2012
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Postby The Zeonic States » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:55 pm

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:No idea, I'm afraid. I know it can, potentially, survive laser blasts from a tank, but that's about it.

A laser blast from a tank class energy weapon should be significantly stronger and more destructive than the power generated by a puny lightsaber, so it seems like we've got our answer.


But a Lightsaber is strong enough to deflect a energy bolt from a tank class weapon system so it seems there is still no answer.

._. It might causes the person behind the lightsaber to suffer ill effects but the bolt can be stoppped and in some cases reflected back to the source.
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The Zeonic States
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Postby The Zeonic States » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:56 pm

Raziac wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
No idea, I'm afraid. I know it can, potentially, survive laser blasts from a tank, but that's about it.

It can, actually. Force field gives 75% chance to destroy any weapon it parries.


Destory a shielded field of Plasma? <_< I wouldn't do that but i know the effects of released super heated plasma.
National Imperialist-Freedom Party

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Agent Maine: of NSG's Official Project Freelancer

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Raziac
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Founded: Jun 13, 2012
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Postby Raziac » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:05 pm

The Zeonic States wrote:
Raziac wrote:It can, actually. Force field gives 75% chance to destroy any weapon it parries.


Destory a shielded field of Plasma? <_< I wouldn't do that but i know the effects of released super heated plasma.

Plasma has an AP of 2 in W40K, while Terminator armor has an armor bonus of…… I'm not sure. It's pretty high. And that 84% chance for nothing to happen...
FT-Prime. Stand your ground laws in effect. A country of human beings living in a bi-solar planetary system.
DEFCON 10
STANDBY LEVEL; 5
BUYING; Uranium
Step 1: Take 5% of my population.
Step 2: Go to nsecomomy, find Raziac.
Step 3: Find Unemployed but Able and Criminal numbers.
Step 4: Divide Unemployed but Able by 4.
Step 5: Add new Unemployed but Able total to the 5%.
Step 6: Divide Criminals by 35.
Step 7: Add new Criminal total to the Unemployed but Able and 5%.
Step 8: Done!
We support alternative energy, or in Emperor Palpatine's words UNLIMITED PPOOWWWAAHHHHHHH!!!!

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Priory Academy USSR
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Posts: 4833
Founded: May 04, 2012
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:07 pm

Raziac wrote:
The Zeonic States wrote:
Destory a shielded field of Plasma? <_< I wouldn't do that but i know the effects of released super heated plasma.

Plasma has an AP of 2 in W40K, while Terminator armor has an armor bonus of…… I'm not sure. It's pretty high. And that 84% chance for nothing to happen...


Regular Terminator Armour has a 2+ regular save, 5+ invunerable save. Grey Knight Terminator armour, has, I believe, a 2+ invunerable save.
Call me what you will. Some people prefer 'Idiot'
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Trollgaard
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Posts: 9938
Founded: Mar 01, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:07 pm

Raziac wrote:
The Zeonic States wrote:
Destory a shielded field of Plasma? <_< I wouldn't do that but i know the effects of released super heated plasma.

Plasma has an AP of 2 in W40K, while Terminator armor has an armor bonus of…… I'm not sure. It's pretty high. And that 84% chance for nothing to happen...


Tactical Dreadnought Armor (Terminator Armor) Grants an Armor bonus of 2+, and an invulnerable save of 5+.

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Raziac
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Founded: Jun 13, 2012
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Postby Raziac » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:07 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Raziac wrote:Plasma has an AP of 2 in W40K, while Terminator armor has an armor bonus of…… I'm not sure. It's pretty high. And that 84% chance for nothing to happen...


Regular Terminator Armour has a 2+ regular save, 5+ invunerable save. Grey Knight Terminator armour, has, I believe, a 2+ invunerable save.

So there you go. We just murdered you and your lightsaber.
FT-Prime. Stand your ground laws in effect. A country of human beings living in a bi-solar planetary system.
DEFCON 10
STANDBY LEVEL; 5
BUYING; Uranium
Step 1: Take 5% of my population.
Step 2: Go to nsecomomy, find Raziac.
Step 3: Find Unemployed but Able and Criminal numbers.
Step 4: Divide Unemployed but Able by 4.
Step 5: Add new Unemployed but Able total to the 5%.
Step 6: Divide Criminals by 35.
Step 7: Add new Criminal total to the Unemployed but Able and 5%.
Step 8: Done!
We support alternative energy, or in Emperor Palpatine's words UNLIMITED PPOOWWWAAHHHHHHH!!!!

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Trollgaard
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9938
Founded: Mar 01, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:08 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Raziac wrote:Plasma has an AP of 2 in W40K, while Terminator armor has an armor bonus of…… I'm not sure. It's pretty high. And that 84% chance for nothing to happen...


Regular Terminator Armour has a 2+ regular save, 5+ invunerable save. Grey Knight Terminator armour, has, I believe, a 2+ invunerable save.


Only 1 terminator out of 5 for grey knights can take an upgrade that grants 2+ invul save.

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Priory Academy USSR
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Founded: May 04, 2012
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:10 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Regular Terminator Armour has a 2+ regular save, 5+ invunerable save. Grey Knight Terminator armour, has, I believe, a 2+ invunerable save.


Only 1 terminator out of 5 for grey knights can take an upgrade that grants 2+ invul save.


Fair point. I forgot that.
Call me what you will. Some people prefer 'Idiot'
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Raziac
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Posts: 592
Founded: Jun 13, 2012
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Postby Raziac » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:10 pm

Trollgaard wrote:
Priory Academy USSR wrote:
Regular Terminator Armour has a 2+ regular save, 5+ invunerable save. Grey Knight Terminator armour, has, I believe, a 2+ invunerable save.


Only 1 terminator out of 5 for grey knights can take an upgrade that grants 2+ invul save.

Then you still have 4 who get 2+ regular save, and 5+invulnerable save. So your ass is still kicked.
FT-Prime. Stand your ground laws in effect. A country of human beings living in a bi-solar planetary system.
DEFCON 10
STANDBY LEVEL; 5
BUYING; Uranium
Step 1: Take 5% of my population.
Step 2: Go to nsecomomy, find Raziac.
Step 3: Find Unemployed but Able and Criminal numbers.
Step 4: Divide Unemployed but Able by 4.
Step 5: Add new Unemployed but Able total to the 5%.
Step 6: Divide Criminals by 35.
Step 7: Add new Criminal total to the Unemployed but Able and 5%.
Step 8: Done!
We support alternative energy, or in Emperor Palpatine's words UNLIMITED PPOOWWWAAHHHHHHH!!!!

User avatar
Trollgaard
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9938
Founded: Mar 01, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:11 pm

Raziac wrote:
Trollgaard wrote:
Only 1 terminator out of 5 for grey knights can take an upgrade that grants 2+ invul save.

Then you still have 4 who get 2+ regular save, and 5+invulnerable save. So your ass is still kicked.


My ass...what?

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Hurdegaryp
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54204
Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:14 pm

Now all we need is a ruleset that makes it possible for Star Wars and WH40K miniatures to face each other in combat. Miniature wargaming enthusiasts, grab your dice and start rolling!
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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