[DISCUSSION] Many of the rules are too strict

[Dalvius]

Like, seriously, this site will get mad at you if you call out a troll for obviously trolling, or saying something in the "wrong forum" without even being told WHAT forum you are supposed to post said things in. And also, the flaming/harassment rule is a little much. Calling someone's views "stupid" isn't some sort of atrocity that brings down the sites quality in any way. I'm too afraid to even disagree with anyone on their views, because suddenly I'm an asshole for having an opinion. I don't have anything against any mods in particular, just to note. Thanks for reading,

If I remember right, calling someone's views stupid isn't flaming. What IS flaming, though, is calling the POSTER stupid. Imperial Union of America and I even had a rather lengthy spat which ended with me getting a ban, not for calling his views stupid, but for making some rather flamebaity comments towards him which I then apologized for.

The rules aren't really strict except for people that continuously break the rules.

"But other sites let me do it!" is an extremely unconvincing argument. There are a lot of things you can do on other websites that we don't permit here, and those aren't likely to change, either.

I mean sites that are even more kid-oriented then here, like ROBLOX for example, or minecraft.

We are not a kid oriented forum.

[Alvecia]

Like, seriously, this site will get mad at you if you call out a troll for obviously trolling, or saying something in the "wrong forum" without even being told WHAT forum you are supposed to post said things in. And also, the flaming/harassment rule is a little much. Calling someone's views "stupid" isn't some sort of atrocity that brings down the sites quality in any way. I'm too afraid to even disagree with anyone on their views, because suddenly I'm an asshole for having an opinion. I don't have anything against any mods in particular, just to note. Thanks for reading,

If I remember right, calling someone's views stupid isn't flaming. What IS flaming, though, is calling the POSTER stupid. Imperial Union of America and I even had a rather lengthy spat which ended with me getting a ban, not for calling his views stupid, but for making some rather flamebaity comments towards him which I then apologized for.

It's the difference between
"That is an idiotic idea"
and
"You are an idiot for thinking that"

[Ostroeuropa]

The rules are fine and there is a wide amount of leeway in terms of banning given to new posters for them to acclimatize and learn the rules and culture of the forums.

This isn't a case of you breaking a rule and getting banned.

Many times the first warning is unofficial and will result in you being directed to the one stop rules page (Which you should read. No. Read it. Go read it. READ IT.), followed by official warnings, and then an official warning with a "For reals guy, don't make me do this", then a 1 day ban.
Followed by several other temporary bans, then a nation deletion, etc.

To get permanently banned essentially requires you break real life laws, or actively try and circumvent a moderator ban and thus display complete disregard for their authority.

It's clear that the tendency here is to give benefit of the doubt to an extreme. If you don't give a fuck about your nation, almost no opinion or post will actually get you permanently banned or face any real consequences other than a time out. This strikes me as appropriate for this forum and for open debate.

If you're annoyed about warnings, don't be. They're best seen as precisely what they are, warnings. They amount to precisely nothing provided you change your tactics and spend a while contributing before getting your next one. They are not punishments in and of themselves.

If you're annoyed about temporary bans, you can appeal later.

[Arridian Islands]

Well this may be my pinko colors showing but I probably wouldn't mind the reporting system if 1) You could report anonymously on a thread and still give the indicted a chance to defend themselves and 2) There rules weren't a product of unaccountable private tyranny. Like there should be some democratic say so or it least leeway when it comes to different threads

There also shouldn't be elitist forums for mods. Only the evidence locker etc for running the place. And even then their should be freedom of information

Some things in the secret forum need to be kept out of public view to protect players' privacy. If we simply took the secret mod forum and opened it to public view, we'd be doxxing several people and opening the door for them to be harassed.

If you would like to keep your reports separate from your other forum activity, you can create a puppet to use for making reports.

Wait, you have posted our addresses and stuff for mods to see? I'm not ok with that.

[Arridian Islands]

Like, seriously, this site will get mad at you if you call out a troll for obviously trolling, or saying something in the "wrong forum" without even being told WHAT forum you are supposed to post said things in. And also, the flaming/harassment rule is a little much. Calling someone's views "stupid" isn't some sort of atrocity that brings down the sites quality in any way. I'm too afraid to even disagree with anyone on their views, because suddenly I'm an asshole for having an opinion. I don't have anything against any mods in particular, just to note. Thanks for reading,

If I remember right, calling someone's views stupid isn't flaming. What IS flaming, though, is calling the POSTER stupid. Imperial Union of America and I even had a rather lengthy spat which ended with me getting a ban, not for calling his views stupid, but for making some rather flamebaity comments towards him which I then apologized for.

The rules aren't really strict except for people that continuously break the rules.

I mean sites that are even more kid-oriented then here, like ROBLOX for example, or minecraft.

We are not a kid oriented forum.

The fact that that is true, yet our rules are more strict than many kids sites, is weird.

[The Blaatschapen]

Some things in the secret forum need to be kept out of public view to protect players' privacy. If we simply took the secret mod forum and opened it to public view, we'd be doxxing several people and opening the door for them to be harassed.

If you would like to keep your reports separate from your other forum activity, you can create a puppet to use for making reports.

Wait, you have posted our addresses and stuff for mods to see? I'm not ok with that.

We do not have your physical address.

[Arridian Islands]

Wait, you have posted our addresses and stuff for mods to see? I'm not ok with that.

We do not have your physical address.

What do you guys have on us?

[The Blaatschapen]

We do not have your physical address.

What do you guys have on us?

https://www.nationstates.net/page=privacy

[Arridian Islands]

What do you guys have on us?

https://www.nationstates.net/page=privacy

Alright, thank you. Anyways, do you think some of the rules are too strict?

[Shazbotdom]

https://www.nationstates.net/page=privacy

Alright, thank you. Anyways, do you think some of the rules are too strict?

The rules are fine as they are.

[Gawdzendia]

Genuinely surprised this didn't get spammed with angry trolls and subsequently locked.
There are a few limitations to the capacity with which I can express myself on this website that I would enjoy being changed, that being said, I also understand why they are in place.
IMHO, the only people who constantly call for the rules to be changed are either upset they got banned, warned, or DEAT'd for being an extremist in some fashion.
If you can't type out anything nice, type out something clever. Otherwise don't post it.

[USS Monitor]

Some things in the secret forum need to be kept out of public view to protect players' privacy. If we simply took the secret mod forum and opened it to public view, we'd be doxxing several people and opening the door for them to be harassed.

If you would like to keep your reports separate from your other forum activity, you can create a puppet to use for making reports.

Wait, you have posted our addresses and stuff for mods to see? I'm not ok with that.

You can use NS without giving us your address. I was referring to things like email addresses that people give us so we can contact them about deleted nations.

[Dalvius]

If I remember right, calling someone's views stupid isn't flaming. What IS flaming, though, is calling the POSTER stupid. Imperial Union of America and I even had a rather lengthy spat which ended with me getting a ban, not for calling his views stupid, but for making some rather flamebaity comments towards him which I then apologized for.

The rules aren't really strict except for people that continuously break the rules.


We are not a kid oriented forum.

The fact that that is true, yet our rules are more strict than many kids sites, is weird.

Not really.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=privacy

Alright, thank you. Anyways, do you think some of the rules are too strict?

The rules are fine as they are. You might be doing something wrong.

[Souseiseki]

If you're annoyed about warnings, don't be. They're best seen as precisely what they are, warnings. They amount to precisely nothing provided you change your tactics and spend a while contributing before getting your next one. They are not punishments in and of themselves.

this requires the presumption that warnings are not occasionally arbitrary and unpredictable. if a moderator decides they don't like your post and gets one colleague to agree you're... pretty much fucked, in all honesty. it doesn't matter what you actually meant or if your post was actually a light-hearted joke, they're not going to listen to what you say. it doesn't even matter if they demonstrate in detail they didn't understand the post, because "a neutral third party" is used to cement their first impression no matter how blatantly wrong it is as untouchable. there's an odd juxtaposition between "well we can't always know what you meant so warned" and "actually we know what you meant better than you yourself apparently know so warned". it's absurd. try "changing your tactics" to suit that.

[Dalvius]

If you're annoyed about warnings, don't be. They're best seen as precisely what they are, warnings. They amount to precisely nothing provided you change your tactics and spend a while contributing before getting your next one. They are not punishments in and of themselves.

this requires the presumption that warnings are not occasionally arbitrary and unpredictable. if a moderator decides they don't like your post and gets one colleague to agree you're... pretty much fucked, in all honesty. it doesn't matter what you actually meant or if your post was actually a light-hearted joke, they're not going to listen to what you say. it doesn't even matter if they demonstrate in detail they didn't understand the post, because "a neutral third party" is used to cement their first impression no matter how blatantly wrong it is as untouchable. there's an odd juxtaposition between "well we can't always know what you meant so warned" and "actually we know what you meant better than you yourself apparently know so warned". it's absurd. try "changing your tactics" to suit that.

A mod seems to have done something to you in the past.

[Raionitu]

If you're annoyed about warnings, don't be. They're best seen as precisely what they are, warnings. They amount to precisely nothing provided you change your tactics and spend a while contributing before getting your next one. They are not punishments in and of themselves.

this requires the presumption that warnings are not occasionally arbitrary and unpredictable. if a moderator decides they don't like your post and gets one colleague to agree you're... pretty much fucked, in all honesty. it doesn't matter what you actually meant or if your post was actually a light-hearted joke, they're not going to listen to what you say. it doesn't even matter if they demonstrate in detail they didn't understand the post, because "a neutral third party" is used to cement their first impression no matter how blatantly wrong it is as untouchable. there's an odd juxtaposition between "well we can't always know what you meant so warned" and "actually we know what you meant better than you yourself apparently know so warned". it's absurd. try "changing your tactics" to suit that.

Not really. If one mod hands out a punishment, and another upholds it, and you still don't like it and have a legitimate case, you can do a final appeal, which is handled by 3 mods (not including the one who made the ruling, and one of the mods has to be a senior mod) and if you think that the moderator is doing something just cause they don't like you/ your view, you can file a report of mod abuse, which goes to the Admins and, if it has something concrete to it, involves a massive process that involved alot of the admins digging through a bunch of stuff behind the scenes.

Though just a warning on the forum usually isn't worth going through that process, and they would probably get on you for wasting their time over something that doesn't affect your ability to do things

[Chrinthanium]

The fact this very discussion is currently on-going proves to me, at least, the moderators aren't as strict as people claim they are. Simply put, this site is owned by a private individual, guarantees no rights outside of not copyrighting your intellectual property, and other interesting and important things in the Terms and Conditions, FAQ's, and the OSRS, and allows you to use it. This website is open to the public like McDonald's or Sears locations. Yes, you can visit it and visit it often, but there are rules and if the rules are violated you can be asked to leave or banned permanently. Those rules are fashioned by the business and applicable laws much like this website has done.

As has been stated before and will, most likely, be stated again, I, personally, find the rules fairly easy to work within. I also find that there's a lot of consideration given to infractions before the red box appears from the Modly Ones.

[USS Monitor]

this requires the presumption that warnings are not occasionally arbitrary and unpredictable. if a moderator decides they don't like your post and gets one colleague to agree you're... pretty much fucked, in all honesty. it doesn't matter what you actually meant or if your post was actually a light-hearted joke, they're not going to listen to what you say. it doesn't even matter if they demonstrate in detail they didn't understand the post, because "a neutral third party" is used to cement their first impression no matter how blatantly wrong it is as untouchable. there's an odd juxtaposition between "well we can't always know what you meant so warned" and "actually we know what you meant better than you yourself apparently know so warned". it's absurd. try "changing your tactics" to suit that.

A mod seems to have done something to you in the past.

I moved when he was stepping from my deck to the dock, and he fell in the water. It's not my fault; I had to scratch an itch. If you've ever had to hold still for a long time, you should know how hard it is not to move when you get an itch. 19th century metallurgy isn't that great, so sometimes my armor gets itchy.

[Lady Scylla]

Alright, thank you. Anyways, do you think some of the rules are too strict?

The rules are fine as they are.

This. My only complaint is that we don't have good Mod coverage in the morning hours of my TZ, like, noone on. I had to rundown Eluvatar to get a very troublesome player taken care of. And then a few issues with select Mods on how they handle reports, and some reluctance on some of the new Mods. Beyond that, everything's fine.

[Yugoslav Memes]

The fact this very discussion is currently on-going proves to me, at least, the moderators aren't as strict as people claim they are. Simply put, this site is owned by a private individual, guarantees no rights outside of not copyrighting your intellectual property, and other interesting and important things in the Terms and Conditions, FAQ's, and the OSRS, and allows you to use it. This website is open to the public like McDonald's or Sears locations. Yes, you can visit it and visit it often, but there are rules and if the rules are violated you can be asked to leave or banned permanently. Those rules are fashioned by the business and applicable laws much like this website has done.

As has been stated before and will, most likely, be stated again, I, personally, find the rules fairly easy to work within. I also find that there's a lot of consideration given to infractions before the red box appears from the Modly Ones.

If it is not an actual physical threat to their position, there is no reason to suppress it and it can be let free for a time if you like to make mockeries out of it.

There's a reason why people in China shittalk the CPC regularly on Baidu Tieba and there are no retaliations. It is not a physical threat.

Besides, one always agree with mods until they get banned or warned.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The rules are fine as they are.

This. My only complaint is that we don't have good Mod coverage in the morning hours of my TZ, like, noone on. I had to rundown Eluvatar to get a very troublesome player taken care of. And then a few issues with select Mods on how they handle reports, and some reluctance on some of the new Mods. Beyond that, everything's fine.

I was going to respond to this, but was unaccountably reluctant to do so....

[Lady Scylla]

This. My only complaint is that we don't have good Mod coverage in the morning hours of my TZ, like, noone on. I had to rundown Eluvatar to get a very troublesome player taken care of. And then a few issues with select Mods on how they handle reports, and some reluctance on some of the new Mods. Beyond that, everything's fine.

I was going to respond to this, but was unaccountably reluctant to do so....

Dork. I think you and Monitor are very good additions to the team.

[USS Monitor]

The fact this very discussion is currently on-going proves to me, at least, the moderators aren't as strict as people claim they are. Simply put, this site is owned by a private individual, guarantees no rights outside of not copyrighting your intellectual property, and other interesting and important things in the Terms and Conditions, FAQ's, and the OSRS, and allows you to use it. This website is open to the public like McDonald's or Sears locations. Yes, you can visit it and visit it often, but there are rules and if the rules are violated you can be asked to leave or banned permanently. Those rules are fashioned by the business and applicable laws much like this website has done.

As has been stated before and will, most likely, be stated again, I, personally, find the rules fairly easy to work within. I also find that there's a lot of consideration given to infractions before the red box appears from the Modly Ones.

If it is not an actual physical threat to their position, there is no reason to suppress it and it can be let free for a time if you like to make mockeries out of it.

There's a reason why people in China shittalk the CPC regularly on Baidu Tieba and there are no retaliations. It is not a physical threat.

Besides, one always agree with mods until they get banned or warned.

Your sig... How did you know? OMG, that ban button... I'm feeling hot under the collar just thinking about it!

Or maybe that's just my cooling fan breaking down again? Those things are finicky.

[Thermodolia]

The fact this very discussion is currently on-going proves to me, at least, the moderators aren't as strict as people claim they are. Simply put, this site is owned by a private individual, guarantees no rights outside of not copyrighting your intellectual property, and other interesting and important things in the Terms and Conditions, FAQ's, and the OSRS, and allows you to use it. This website is open to the public like McDonald's or Sears locations. Yes, you can visit it and visit it often, but there are rules and if the rules are violated you can be asked to leave or banned permanently. Those rules are fashioned by the business and applicable laws much like this website has done.

As has been stated before and will, most likely, be stated again, I, personally, find the rules fairly easy to work within. I also find that there's a lot of consideration given to infractions before the red box appears from the Modly Ones.

If it is not an actual physical threat to their position, there is no reason to suppress it and it can be let free for a time if you like to make mockeries out of it.

There's a reason why people in China shittalk the CPC regularly on Baidu Tieba and there are no retaliations. It is not a physical threat.

Besides, one always agree with mods until they get banned or warned.

I still agree with the mods and I've been warned 4 times. Now I didn't agree with some of those warnings but I moved on and accepted the modly judgment

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The fact this very discussion is currently on-going proves to me, at least, the moderators aren't as strict as people claim they are. Simply put, this site is owned by a private individual, guarantees no rights outside of not copyrighting your intellectual property, and other interesting and important things in the Terms and Conditions, FAQ's, and the OSRS, and allows you to use it. This website is open to the public like McDonald's or Sears locations. Yes, you can visit it and visit it often, but there are rules and if the rules are violated you can be asked to leave or banned permanently. Those rules are fashioned by the business and applicable laws much like this website has done.

As has been stated before and will, most likely, be stated again, I, personally, find the rules fairly easy to work within. I also find that there's a lot of consideration given to infractions before the red box appears from the Modly Ones.

If it is not an actual physical threat to their position, there is no reason to suppress it and it can be let free for a time if you like to make mockeries out of it.

There's a reason why people in China shittalk the CPC regularly on Baidu Tieba and there are no retaliations. It is not a physical threat.

Besides, one always agree with mods until they get banned or warned.

There is one reason, and I think that it's the major one:

Max doesn't want that sort of nonsense on the site, and admins and staff tend to be picked from among those who don't want to see it, either. I'm certainly one of them.

If you want a forum where you can slag off on each other all that you want without fear of warning or banning, then there are literally thousands of places out there where you can do just that. This is not one of them. This can't be one of them. This place allows for an enormous diversity of viewpoints, but if you're going to have both that and a reasonably intelligent conversation (as opposed to the pissing contests, overwhelming amounts of shitposting, tired meme contests, and general flamewars that you see elsewhere), then you need to enforce a basic standard of behavior that posters are expected to have towards each other.

You want the ability to insult people? That's fine. Do so. Just don't do it here.