Annihilation April/May Massacre: Cybersexing Deletions

[Litorea]

I'm not arguing this isn't an infraction of the rules, I'm arguing that the punishments are too harsh.

No, it's not. It is very clear that a PG-13 rule exists for the entire site, and those that break it can be deleted.

This was a pretty grievous infraction of the site rules, especially considering all of the...weird fetishes that were involved.

So your personal sense, and the moderation staff's personal sense, of what is and is not an acceptable fetish should be used to decide objectively to what extent a player should be punished?

[Arkadacia]

It's honestly your own fault, man. It is obvious that something like this is against the rules, so if you didn't want to be called out for it, you shouldn't have done it.

Y'know, this seems to be the only friggin' response people have to that.

We get it, you're on your high horse. Go ahead and tell me how fantastic you're feeling when you're on a list like that, aight? Getting bopped for some silly shit you did with your partner via TG and now forever being lumped into people who play out horsefucking because they decided to say specifically the kinds of things they ran into.

That doesn't instantly make it the right decision if it's too late to reverse it, I'm fairly certain.

Maybe, but the damage has most certainly been done. This could've been handled so much better, but honestly I'd be lying if I said I weren't surprised by the.. 'sloppy' way this situation was dealt with.

Okay, that was pretty clever, I'll give you that one. Regardless, just because the damage has already been done doesn't mean we can't learn something from this. Namely, not to show this level of unprofessionalism again? Seriously, just check the title alone. That doesn't even read like an official moderator title.

I'm not arguing this isn't an infraction of the rules, I'm arguing that the punishments are too harsh.

No, it's not. It is very clear that a PG-13 rule exists for the entire site, and those that break it can be deleted.

This was a pretty grievous infraction of the site rules, especially considering all of the...weird fetishes that were involved.

And there you go on the fetishes bit. I'm pretty goddamn sure it wasn't necessary to list all the sorts of depraved shit the team ran into on their way, it would've been INCREDIBLY EASY to just say 'There was some NSFW things going on, that's all you need to know'.

I don't feel like making people's personal interests public, especially when they were expressed through a private medium, is the right thing to do. Just because these people have done something wrong doesn't mean that you're supposed to detail their fetishes and sexual activities.

Also, although I'm not sure why private conversations are subject to PG-13 rules, the possibility of going to another site to do it is so accessible that it doesn't even matter.

That's my biggest problem with this, basically.

[Esternial]

I don't feel like making people's personal interests public, especially when they were expressed through a private medium, is the right thing to do. Just because these people have done something wrong doesn't mean that you're supposed to detail their fetishes and sexual activities.

Also, although I'm not sure why private conversations are subject to PG-13 rules, the possibility of going to another site to do it is so accessible that it doesn't even matter.

It's so Nationstates and its owner aren't held liable in the event of any illegal activity being discovered.

If a mother finds out her teenage son has been cybering with an adult, Nationstates could probably be held liable, if I'm not mistaken.

Could be wrong, though.

[Litorea]

I'm not arguing this isn't an infraction of the rules, I'm arguing that the punishments are too harsh.

http://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette

Ahahahaha! Hahaha! Free speech! No, it's not. I run this web site, see, so you have to play by my rules. It's like my own Father Knows Best state.

This applies to your nation's name, motto, and other customizable fields, any messages you write, images you post, or any other content you upload or link to NationStates. If you do, your nation will be deleted. See the site's Terms & Conditions and One Stop Rules Shop for details.

Notice how telegrams are not explicitly mentioned, and it is never said that they are not actually private means of communication.

[Esternial]

No, it's not. It is very clear that a PG-13 rule exists for the entire site, and those that break it can be deleted.

This was a pretty grievous infraction of the site rules, especially considering all of the...weird fetishes that were involved.

So your personal sense, and the moderation staff's personal sense, of what is and is not an acceptable fetish should be used to decide objectively to what extent a player should be punished?

So...instead yours should?

http://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette

Notice how telegrams are not explicitly mentioned, and it is never said that they are not actually private means of communication.

"any messages you write"

Pretty sure a TG is a message.

[The Armed Republic of Dutch Coolness]

No, it's not. It is very clear that a PG-13 rule exists for the entire site, and those that break it can be deleted.

This was a pretty grievous infraction of the site rules, especially considering all of the...weird fetishes that were involved.

So your personal sense, and the moderation staff's personal sense, of what is and is not an acceptable fetish should be used to decide objectively to what extent a player should be punished?

How else? You need Max to make a chart for the mods to use?

"Hmm, yes, [nation] wrote that he penetrated [underage character] exactly four times. That's a ban of... let's see... Ah, twelve days, nine hours, and forty-seven minutes!"

[Slenderman The CreepyPasta King]

Ok, so I've been reading through this and, just wow; Flame Dawn and Straus, two of the few people who would give me a second and third chance on the CoTM threads. Makes me wonder if im such an idiot that a lot of people IRL think I am.

[Litorea]

So your personal sense, and the moderation staff's personal sense, of what is and is not an acceptable fetish should be used to decide objectively to what extent a player should be punished?

So...instead yours should?

I'm saying that they should be punished purely based on the fact that the rule was broken and not because the staff thought it was icky.

[The Orson Empire]

http://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette

Notice how telegrams are not explicitly mentioned, and it is never said that they are not actually private means of communication.

It says any messages, which definitely refers to telegrams.

And seriously, stop trying to take up for people who obviously broke the site rules. They knew exactly what they were doing and got punished for it. If people want to pull shit like this, they should go to another website.

[Italios]

http://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette

Notice how telegrams are not explicitly mentioned, and it is never said that they are not actually private means of communication.

"Any content you upload to Nationstates," and "any messages you wrote" (literally the concept of a TG) would most likely qualify. If you're still willing to act this oblivious about it I'd be happy to link to NS terms & conditions and the OSRS. The punishments were well deserved. The presentation of this annihilation needs work.

[Litorea]

Ok, so I've been reading through this and, just wow; Flame Dawn and Straus, two of the few people who would give me a second and third chance on the CoTM threads. Makes me wonder if im such an idiot that a lot of people IRL think I am.

For the love of God, people, get off your high horses and stop pretending you don't have skeletons in your closets. This goes for everyone here.

[Esternial]

So...instead yours should?

I'm saying that they should be punished purely based on the fact that the rule was broken and not because the staff thought it was icky.

They weren't?

[Arkadacia]

Ok, so I've been reading through this and, just wow; Flame Dawn and Straus, two of the few people who would give me a second and third chance on the CoTM threads. Makes me wonder if im such an idiot that a lot of people IRL think I am.

For the love of God, people, get off your high horses and stop pretending you don't have skeletons in your closets. This goes for everyone here.

Pretty much what I've been trying to say for the duration of this, I don't think people are getting it.

[Rikatan]

I don't feel like making people's personal interests public, especially when they were expressed through a private medium, is the right thing to do. Just because these people have done something wrong doesn't mean that you're supposed to detail their fetishes and sexual activities.

That's my biggest problem with this, basically.

You know how, in news stories, people sometimes choose to remain anonymous? There's even the whole John/Jane Doe thing. That's what would have made this entire thing entirely alright with me. *nods*
Clearly these people don't deserve that level of decency. Or, at least, that's what I understand from this.

So your personal sense, and the moderation staff's personal sense, of what is and is not an acceptable fetish should be used to decide objectively to what extent a player should be punished?

So...instead yours should?

No one's should. Fetishes are fantasies. The underage soliciting and things like that, horrible. But personal sexual interests? Irrelevant, at least in my opinion.

[Litorea]

Notice how telegrams are not explicitly mentioned, and it is never said that they are not actually private means of communication.

"Any content you upload to Nationstates," and "any messages you wrote" (literally the concept of a TG) would most likely qualify. If you're still willing to act this oblivious about it I'd be happy to link to NS terms & conditions and the OSRS. The punishments were well deserved. The presentation of this annihilation needs work.

That's not the issue, the issue is that telegrams were never explicitly stated, hence the rules ought to be revised in order to make that clear and the punishments made less harsh.

[Major-Tom]

This is unjust. DOSing and DEATing people for doing something they didn't know was against the rules. I, and I assume many others, always thought the PG-13 Rule applied only to public content, not private correspondances. Its not just to summarily DEAT and DOS all these people without even warning them.

Oh no, god fucking forbid punishments are issued when someone sends explicit pornographic and fetish material across a site that is accessed by children.

There is no justification for using telegrams as a place to share one's disgusting, perverted variants of "porn."

[Imperial--japan]

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=285075


If anyone contemplates suicide because of a webforum, I think it's time to take a step back and realize that it's all just some text on a screen.

Maybe, but this is more than that, these are reputations and friendships we're talking about here. Having your name on that shitlist pretty much means you're dead to most of the community.

Dead to the community is a far stretch. Does anyone really care that users were doing sexual shit in private (besides moderation apparently)? Honestly, it's hardly that big of a deal for anyone except those deleted. Ooooh sexual roleplay, so fuckin spooky.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just sick or something for not seeing what people do in private as my business. I personally won't look at any of the people on this list differently. What they do in private isn't my business.

[The Orson Empire]

Ok, so I've been reading through this and, just wow; Flame Dawn and Straus, two of the few people who would give me a second and third chance on the CoTM threads. Makes me wonder if im such an idiot that a lot of people IRL think I am.

For the love of God, people, get off your high horses and stop pretending you don't have skeletons in your closets. This goes for everyone here.

And you should stop trying to take up for people who obviously broke the rules. They knew exactly what they were doing and got punished for it. If people want to pull shit like this, they should go to another website.

[Doom Legions]

Maybe, but the damage has most certainly been done. This could've been handled so much better, but honestly I'd be lying if I said I weren't surprised by the.. 'sloppy' way this situation was dealt with.

Okay, that was pretty clever, I'll give you that one. Regardless, just because the damage has already been done doesn't mean we can't learn something from this. Namely, not to show this level of unprofessionalism again? Seriously, just check the title alone. That doesn't even read like an official moderator title.

The potential to learn from this is definetly here, both for player and mod alike. In my experience though, nobody will actually learn from this. Sadly we are quite powerless here, can't exactly force people to do what we like nor can we overthrow the mods or something, though that does sound like a juicy idea.

[The Orson Empire]

This is unjust. DOSing and DEATing people for doing something they didn't know was against the rules. I, and I assume many others, always thought the PG-13 Rule applied only to public content, not private correspondances. Its not just to summarily DEAT and DOS all these people without even warning them.

Not knowing the rules is not an excuse for breaking them.

That's like saying "Oh, I didn't know murdering someone was illegal! You can't arrest me!" That is the logic you are using.

[Litorea]

For the love of God, people, get off your high horses and stop pretending you don't have skeletons in your closets. This goes for everyone here.

And you should stop trying to take up for people who obviously broke the rules. They knew exactly what they were doing and got punished for it. If people want to pull shit like this, they should go to another website.

Someone needs to speak for those who can't be spoken for.

[Bycrest]

Notice how telegrams are not explicitly mentioned, and it is never said that they are not actually private means of communication.

It says any messages, which definitely refers to telegrams.

And seriously, stop trying to take up for people who obviously broke the site rules. They knew exactly what they were doing and got punished for it. If people want to pull shit like this, they should go to another website.

So you're basically saying stop trying to defend your friends. They broke the rules so they're obviously bad people and your shouldn't defend them. I know a good amount of people on that list and they shouldn't be defined by this one event.

[Arkadacia]

You know how, in news stories, people sometimes choose to remain anonymous? There's even the whole John/Jane Doe thing. That's what would have made this entire thing entirely alright with me. *nods*
Clearly these people don't deserve that level of decency. Or, at least, that's what I understand from this.

Yeah, that would've been a perfectly acceptable way of going about it instead of putting a laser pointer on the people involved.

Oh no, god fucking forbid punishments are issued when someone sends explicit pornographic and fetish material across a site that is accessed by children.

There is no justification for using telegrams as a place to share one's disgusting, perverted variants of "porn."

Calm down, buddy. We get it, everyone's a dirty, sinful, horribly human being for doing smut.

Truly you are a beacon of morality and shining virtue in this world.

The potential to learn from this is definetly here, both for player and mod alike. In my experience though, nobody will actually learn from this. Sadly we are quite powerless here, can't exactly force people to do what we like nor can we overthrow the mods or something, though that does sound like a juicy idea.

Yeah, it's just going to continue on the 'YOU DIRTY FIENDS' circlejerk for a while and everyone will forget about it until the next major incident.

[Faustian Fantasies]

This is like the NationStates Panama Papers.

[Esternial]

No one's should. Fetishes are fantasies. The underage soliciting and things like that, horrible. But personal sexual interests? Irrelevant, at least in my opinion.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure they were considered as relevant. Try seeing it from a Mod's perspective.

You can't be 100% sure that a particular poster is underage. So it's entirely possible that there are several adult-minor cybersex interaction. I think that's why the punishments are so harsh. I think those that didn't get DoS'ed should call themselves fortunate, to be honest, because if the Mods really were to play things safe all the way they likely would have issues much harsher punishments, justified or not, to avoid any liability being placed on NS and Max.