Site policy on "malicious" content

[Vakolic]

And yet again, the anti-roleplay bias of this pollecy shows through.
As far as this goes, does this mean that I can't, let's say, rp a genocidal nation which wants to kill everyone not of its ethnicity? They're around 25 % of the roleplay community.

Look. We're not machine-men with machine-minds and machine-hearts. We are capable of some discernment in matters of roleplay. If you've got a clear distinction between out-of-character and in-character, you can be 99% certain you're fine.

~ Tsar the Mod is not cattle either

The dictator ftw.

However, this problem will surely cause so many 'restore my nation please' requests, which can lead to extreme annoyance on the part of the possibly wronged party, that it would be a smoother system either to keep it where it was previously (because noone has broken down in tears about the ggr, it just leads to some nice gameplay), or keep it firmly in the public eye and not 'behind closed doors.'

[Vakolic]

Failing this, can we have a message from Max Barry (not his friends) on the subject?

You do know [violet] is the most senior person on this site other than Max right? And it's pretty fair to assume that he (Max) has had input on this policy.

I'm not really concerned with the pollecy of getting rid of actually offensive stuff, I'm more concerned with its potential for rampent nazi-bashing and the continuation of the ggr shitstorm.

[National Sozialistische]

Failing this, can we have a message from Max Barry (not his friends) on the subject?

You do know [violet] is the most senior person on this site other than Max right? And it's pretty fair to assume that he (Max) has had input on this policy.

thats absolutely doubtful.

with exception to a few mods, there is some extreme bias at play here. i think this deserves some sort of arbitration or vote or something.

[Tsaraine]

Can this topic be debated upon at NSG?

Failing this, can we have a message from Max Barry (not his friends) on the subject?

Signs point to 'no'; [violet] is the official spokesperson for Max Barry precisely because Max doesn't want to get embroiled in this sort of drama. His business is writing, not popping in to every Moderation thread to proclaim that it has his approval; if Max were to rule on everything, why would we need Moderators? In matters relating to NationStates, [violet] can be regarded as the Holy Spirit, delivering the Word of God from on high.

~ Tsar the Mod is but the vessel which enacts His will

[Jamie Anumia]

You do know [violet] is the most senior person on this site other than Max right? And it's pretty fair to assume that he (Max) has had input on this policy.

thats absolutely doubtful.

with exception to a few mods, there is some extreme bias at play here. i think this deserves some sort of arbitration or vote or something.

Moderation policy is decided by the mods and admins. Not by us (non-mod/admin nations).

[Tsaraine]

However, this problem will surely cause so many 'restore my nation please' requests, which can lead to extreme annoyance on the part of the possibly wronged party, that it would be a smoother system either to keep it where it was previously (because noone has broken down in tears about the ggr, it just leads to some nice gameplay), or keep it firmly in the public eye and not 'behind closed doors.'

Eh, we are capable of dealing with the shitstorm. We're dealing with it right now. We are continuing to monitor the shitstorm as it develops, and should it develop into a shiticane, we'll order the evacuation of Florida.

thats absolutely doubtful.

with exception to a few mods, there is some extreme bias at play here. i think this deserves some sort of arbitration or vote or something.

Nnnnope, not a democracy.

I'm not really concerned with the pollecy of getting rid of actually offensive stuff, I'm more concerned with its potential for rampent nazi-bashing and the continuation of the ggr shitstorm.

If you see 'rampant nazi-bashing' happening, by all means report it and we'll take a look; but we can't rule on hypotheticals! As above, we are continuing to monitor weather conditions in The Greater German Reich and throughout the forums.

~ Tsar the Mod is a Category Five

[Vakolic]

thats absolutely doubtful.

with exception to a few mods, there is some extreme bias at play here. i think this deserves some sort of arbitration or vote or something.

Moderation policy is decided by the mods and admins. Not by us (non-mod/admin nations).

Then wouldn't it be wise to get rid of a few of the generalite mods and recruit a few mods from the rp forums to gain a broader mix?

[The Ruthenian Federation]

Out of sheer curiosity, I'd like to ask: does that mean users seeking to emulate questionable entities such as Nazi Germany or their policies in roleplay may do so as long as the name and details of their account (or nation, to be specific) are not emulating above-mentioned questionable entities?

[Jamie Anumia]

Moderation policy is decided by the mods and admins. Not by us (non-mod/admin nations).

Then wouldn't it be wise to get rid of a few of the generalite mods and recruit a few mods from the rp forums to gain a broader mix?

Some of the mods are RP mods. Euro, Trans to name a few. But this probably isn't the place to debate on the qualifications/background of the mod team.

[Sedgistan]

So after my initial glee and bloodlust, I believe National Sozialistische has a point.

The current invasion of The Greater German Reich was caused by mod error. It appears the founder Leather-clad Germany was initially deleted, but then quickly reinstated...in Lazarus, like it had CTE and refounded.

This mod action had the direct consequence of making the delegate position in The Greater German Reich to go from non-exec to exec, enabling the raid to occur.

I'm going to respond to this because I see that the moderators have not responded to it, which leads me to believe they are still considering this matter.

There was no "mod error" involved. Leather-clad Germany was in fact in violation of rules on the kind of malicious and offensive content discussed in this thread and was presumably deleted for that reason. That the mods reinstated her was lenient, far too lenient in my opinion given that she has presided over a region that has produced volumes of malicious content. Leniency does not mean that a very appropriate punishment of deletion was an error, it simply means the mods were lenient.

Moreover, there is no reason for the mods to reverse the invasion of The Greater German Reich. Because they have been lenient and reinstated LCG, she is more than capable as founder of reversing the invasion and its effects on her own. Indeed, had she logged in and moved her nation back to the region sooner the invasion would not even have been possible. Why should the mods do what she is herself quite capable of doing?

Incorrect - the matter is not still being discussed. LCG was deleted by mistake due to a mis-reading of the nation's warning record. Upon being corrected by another moderator, the nation was restored. While that nation had offensive fields, this was not considered enough to warrant deletion.

Regarding the situation in The Greater German Reich, I've removed the existing delegate from their position, since the invasion was only enabled by a mod mistake. See precedent in Roman Empire for us taking steps to correct moderation mistakes. I'd remove the invaders from the region, and temporarily password it, but I don't have time at the moment. If LCG isn't back after update and the invader delegate is re-elected, I will remove them from their position again and reverse all the changes to the region.

[Tsaraine]

Then wouldn't it be wise to get rid of a few of the generalite mods and recruit a few mods from the rp forums to gain a broader mix?

But we have mods from the RP forums! Melkor, Reppy, Euro, Ard, Nathi, Trans, and myself all got our start in roleplaying. Trust me, we're well represented. If we spend more time in NSG, well, NSG is where most of the kerfuffles are!

Out of sheer curiosity, I'd like to ask: does that mean users seeking to emulate questionable entities such as Nazi Germany or their policies in roleplay may do so as long as the name and details of their account (or nation, to be specific) are not emulating above-mentioned questionable entities?

We hold nations to higher standards than roleplaying, since your nation can't have 'Not really advocating turning Jews into lampshades' plastered across the top of it (or at least that'd make one weird national motto). Roleplaying is easily divided into in-character and out-of-character, is capable of conveying more nuance and detail, et cetera. So yes, you're welcome to roleplay a genocidal state which turns those not of the righteous faith of their forefathers into Soylent Green. As I said earlier, if you've got a clear IC/OOC distinction, 99% of the time you'll be fine. The problem comes in when there's no clear distinction, or when no clear distinction is possible (such as on nations).

~ Tsar the Mod is made of people

[Altito Asmoro]

Gonna ask something, which bugging me on...

So, if there is a Nazi Region like GGR, I should report them to here?

[The Ruthenian Federation]

Then wouldn't it be wise to get rid of a few of the generalite mods and recruit a few mods from the rp forums to gain a broader mix?

But we have mods from the RP forums! Melkor, Reppy, Euro, Ard, Nathi, Trans, and myself all got our start in roleplaying. Trust me, we're well represented. If we spend more time in NSG, well, NSG is where most of the kerfuffles are!

Out of sheer curiosity, I'd like to ask: does that mean users seeking to emulate questionable entities such as Nazi Germany or their policies in roleplay may do so as long as the name and details of their account (or nation, to be specific) are not emulating above-mentioned questionable entities?

We hold nations to higher standards than roleplaying, since your nation can't have 'Not really advocating turning Jews into lampshades' plastered across the top of it (or at least that'd make one weird national motto). Roleplaying is easily divided into in-character and out-of-character, is capable of conveying more nuance and detail, et cetera. So yes, you're welcome to roleplay a genocidal state which turns those not of the righteous faith of their forefathers into Soylent Green. As I said earlier, if you've got a clear IC/OOC distinction, 99% of the time you'll be fine. The problem comes in when there's no clear distinction, or when no clear distinction is possible (such as on nations).

~ Tsar the Mod is made of people

Ah, thank you for the clarification!

[Jamie Anumia]

Gonna ask something, which bugging me on...

So, if there is a Nazi Region like GGR, I should report them to here?

There's the Getting Help Request, which I would assume is where they would be reported, considering that's where region reports traditionally went.

[Tsaraine]

Gonna ask something, which bugging me on...

So, if there is a Nazi Region like GGR, I should report them to here?

Not really, no. If there's a Nazi region, well, is it doing anything you find offensive? If so, report it through the Getting Help Page (since, as a region, it's a gameside, not a forumside, matter) and we'll take a look at it. If it's not doing anything you find offensive, let it be.

Ah, thank you for the clarification!

You are welcome!

~ Tsar the Mod is at your service

[Laerod]

I am a bit confused. What exactly (or unexactly) has changed regarding the standard of when a nation crosses the line?

[Jamie Anumia]

Gonna ask something, which bugging me on...

So, if there is a Nazi Region like GGR, I should report them to here?

Not really, no. If there's a Nazi region, well, is it doing anything you find offensive? If so, report it through the Getting Help Page (since, as a region, it's a gameside, not a forumside, matter) and we'll take a look at it. If it's not doing anything you find offensive, let it be.

Just for a clarification, if a region doesn't condone it on their RMB but contains references to Hitler etc and things like that on their WFE, is that reportable or does it depend on the context?

[Tsaraine]

Just for a clarification, if a region doesn't condone it on their RMB but contains references to Hitler etc and things like that on their WFE, is that reportable or does it depend on the context?

That sounds like it'd be reportable, yes. Use your judgment to see whether or not you think it's adulating Hitler and/or the Holocaust et cetera.

~ Tsar the Mod

[Jamie Anumia]

Just for a clarification, if a region doesn't condone it on their RMB but contains references to Hitler etc and things like that on their WFE, is that reportable or does it depend on the context?

That sounds like it'd be reportable, yes. Use your judgment to see whether or not you think it's adulating Hitler and/or the Holocaust et cetera.

~ Tsar the Mod

Thanks for the clarification.

[National Sozialistische]

thank you for fixing the GGR. we will rebuild as soon as someone can get my name off the unbanlist and back in the delegacy so i can lock the region till LCG gets back

Delegate of the Greater German Reich
Reichsmarschall und Reichsminister des Auswärtigen
Weltversammlungsdelegierter des Großdeutschen Reiches
The_Greater_German_Reich

[The Evil Smurfs]

roleplay

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

I for one and growing awfully sick and tired of "genocide" RP's popping up all the time:

"Nation X announces mass murder of group Y" etc.

Another lovely example just popped up:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=217123

EDIT: If this isn't actionable, forgive me...just venting.

[Vakolic]

roleplay

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think it means 'an in character development of your nation, containing as little ooc clutter as possible, such as a war or exchange. This can be done (clutteringly) on the rmb, and I don't think that that's against the rules.' What do you think it is?

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Hint- if you can't find anything better to do as an RPer than post the kind of content that would get you banned, you are a lousy roleplayer.

So, you see yourself as the unofficial spokesperson for the entire rp community?

I've seen (and participated in) some rather good rps centred on genocides, religious biggotry, enslavement of minorities, or Ralk or Scand (basicly all 3 in
one.)
So, as this is an amazingly blurry line, with astheticly pleasing curves and sidestreets, it is impossible to see where the line from harmless slaughter and banable offense is drawn.

There are no hidden meanings or implications attached to this statement, I certainly don't see myself as an unofficial spokesperson for the entire RP community, and I've never had an issue determining that Ralk and Scand aren't exactly advocating their RP content as a decent policy for IRL. If you can't take that as it is, word for word, then don't take it at all. Go back and read the specific wording of what is now considered to be unacceptable in the OP, and then think it over again.

[Sedgistan]

Regarding the situation in The Greater German Reich, I've removed the existing delegate from their position, since the invasion was only enabled by a mod mistake. See precedent in Roman Empire for us taking steps to correct moderation mistakes. I'd remove the invaders from the region, and temporarily password it, but I don't have time at the moment. If LCG isn't back after update and the invader delegate is re-elected, I will remove them from their position again and reverse all the changes to the region.

Update: now fixed as best is possible.