A Problem with Liberations

[Sarzonia]

Most of your proposals would ether be open for abuse or would kill raiding all together. It's only natural your getting hostile responses.

I see nothing wrong with killing raiding completely. If that means raiders tuck their tails between their legs and leave the game, good riddance.

And frankly, I don't give a shit if raiders are going to be hostile toward me for that. YOUR actions and your attitude toward those of us who want nothing to do with raiding/defending are getting you hostile responses in your own right.

[Kalibarr]

Political suicide by the mods, many other founderless regions would cry out and complain if your region got a founder and they did not.

[Northrop-Grumman]

Political suicide by the mods, many other founderless regions would cry out and complain if your region got a founder and they did not.

Then let's allow all founderless regions (except the feeders, since they're built that way) to appoint their own founders. I don't see why that isn't fair.

[Kalibarr]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

[Bavin]

Most of your proposals would ether be open for abuse or would kill raiding all together. It's only natural your getting hostile responses.

I see nothing wrong with killing raiding completely. If that means raiders tuck their tails between their legs and leave the game, good riddance.

And frankly, I don't give a shit if raiders are going to be hostile toward me for that. YOUR actions and your attitude toward those of us who want nothing to do with raiding/defending are getting you hostile responses in your own right.

Sarz, frankly, your hostility is not helping in the slightest. If anything, it gives them more support.

Political suicide by the mods, many other founderless regions would cry out and complain if your region got a founder and they did not.

Well, the ones that play the I/D game don't need ones. If they don't want to play the I/D game, come to a founded region. If they get a founder to avoid being raided, shouldn't that send a message that they don't want to play either, like Havenites?

[Northrop-Grumman]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

Again, there are people who want to be left alone here and not play in the R/D game. People with founders have a nice exit out of that game as they can never be harmed by an invasion. Those of us in founderless regions, whether it's because there are too many people to coordinate an exit strategy, have too much history backed up on the RMB, or are fearful that some other party with a grudge will intervene, are really unable to refound their regions. This would solve that instantly. If we could easily do it, we'd do it. So what's the difference if we just get founders and bypass all that painful work?

[Sarzonia]

Sarz, frankly, your hostility is not helping in the slightest. If anything, it gives them more support.

Understood.

On another note, please call me Sarzonia. Thank you.

[Amazonian Beasts]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

Well, no loss there...

Frankly? Go find your own game to play with people who want to play it. Y'all just can't get it when we RPers say "we don't want to play with you. Sorry."

[Hamilay]

I like how both Pythagosaurus and raiders are arguing that nobody actually wants to be raided and if people were given the option to opt out of it raiding would rapidly die.

Just sayin'.

[Mudkips]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

If you're just using the gameplay to troll people that have obviously made it quite clear that they don't want to take part in your shenanigans, then you don't deserve to keep the R/D gameplay.

If a roleplayer tries to invade someone through RP after they've been told that the person doesn't want to roleplay with that person several times, the roleplayer will get into trouble for trolling, flamebait, harassment, or a number of other potential charges. I don't see why trolling and harassing people via the game mechanics that apparently nobody can opt out of should be any different.

Since the entire point of invading regions seems to be trolling and harassment, why shouldn't the R/D gameplay be killed?

[No endorse]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

Well, no loss there...

Frankly? Go find your own game to play with people who want to play it. Y'all just can't get it when we RPers say "we don't want to play with you. Sorry."

Why not go find your own game to play where you don't have any of NationStates' integral gameplay mechanics? Invisionfree exists.



TBH, the tantrum being thrown by everyone involved is.... sickening.

[Amazonian Beasts]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

Well, no loss there...

Frankly? Go find your own game to play with people who want to play it. Y'all just can't get it when we RPers say "we don't want to play with you. Sorry."

Why not go find your own game to play where you don't have any of NationStates' integral gameplay mechanics? Invisionfree exists.



TBH, the tantrum being thrown by everyone involved is.... sickening.

So, they should thus have to play the RP game because the forums are a part of NS, right?

Why can't it be an opt-in? Why do we RPers have to bend over and just say "Yes sir. We'll do whatever you want?"

[Kalibarr]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

If you're just using the gameplay to troll people that have obviously made it quite clear that they don't want to take part in your shenanigans, then you don't deserve to keep the R/D gameplay.

If a roleplayer tries to invade someone through RP after they've been told that the person doesn't want to roleplay with that person several times, the roleplayer will get into trouble for trolling, flamebait, harassment, or a number of other potential charges. I don't see why trolling and harassing people via the game mechanics that apparently nobody can opt out of should be any different.

Since the entire point of invading regions seems to be trolling and harassment, why shouldn't the R/D gameplay be killed?

One that's not the point of R/D gameplay

Two with raiding/defending gone, the game would go down too.

[Mudkips]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

If you're just using the gameplay to troll people that have obviously made it quite clear that they don't want to take part in your shenanigans, then you don't deserve to keep the R/D gameplay.

If a roleplayer tries to invade someone through RP after they've been told that the person doesn't want to roleplay with that person several times, the roleplayer will get into trouble for trolling, flamebait, harassment, or a number of other potential charges. I don't see why trolling and harassing people via the game mechanics that apparently nobody can opt out of should be any different.

Since the entire point of invading regions seems to be trolling and harassment, why shouldn't the R/D gameplay be killed?

One that's not the point of R/D gameplay

Two with raiding/defending gone, the game would go down too.

Then what is the point of R/D gameplay?

Frankly, I don't think most of the NationStates userbase would even notice if R/D went away tomorrow. Even fewer would even care.

[Northrop-Grumman]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

If you're just using the gameplay to troll people that have obviously made it quite clear that they don't want to take part in your shenanigans, then you don't deserve to keep the R/D gameplay.

If a roleplayer tries to invade someone through RP after they've been told that the person doesn't want to roleplay with that person several times, the roleplayer will get into trouble for trolling, flamebait, harassment, or a number of other potential charges. I don't see why trolling and harassing people via the game mechanics that apparently nobody can opt out of should be any different.

Since the entire point of invading regions seems to be trolling and harassment, why shouldn't the R/D gameplay be killed?

One that's not the point of R/D gameplay

Two with raiding/defending gone, the game would go down too.

Oh, I certainly believe it's not the point of R/D gameplay, but that seems to be the direct result of safeguards not being in place to protect users who don't want to be a part of that. It does tend to fall into annoyances and perhaps harassment because it is being shoved down people's throats with a "take it or leave" attitude.

And to others in here, let's at least try to keep this as civil as possible. I'd rather not everything devolve into a flame war with shouts of killing of certain aspects of the game.

[Kalibarr]

because it would kill the R/D gameplay

If you're just using the gameplay to troll people that have obviously made it quite clear that they don't want to take part in your shenanigans, then you don't deserve to keep the R/D gameplay.

If a roleplayer tries to invade someone through RP after they've been told that the person doesn't want to roleplay with that person several times, the roleplayer will get into trouble for trolling, flamebait, harassment, or a number of other potential charges. I don't see why trolling and harassing people via the game mechanics that apparently nobody can opt out of should be any different.

Since the entire point of invading regions seems to be trolling and harassment, why shouldn't the R/D gameplay be killed?

One that's not the point of R/D gameplay

Two with raiding/defending gone, the game would go down too.

Then what is the point of R/D gameplay?

Frankly, I don't think most of the NationStates userbase would even notice if R/D went away tomorrow. Even fewer would even care.

Entertainment, like any other part of the game, Max Barry himself has remarked how he never expect so many communities to form. In essence it would not be NS without them, from RPers to raiders, defenders, Generalites, Forum 7 Goers, Issue Writers, Sports RPers, Neutral Gameplayers, WA supporters/Anti WA groups, all make Nationstates unique, fun and open to many people from around the world of different gender, race educational background, interests and so on.

You may see groups such as gameplay to only be a small piece in the puzzle but you'll find they are more inter connected than we believe they are. There is no one group the game is built upon, even though people try to claim theirs is, the truth is the game is all of us.

You ask why your region? well it is because of your reputation, it is because you would react, true no one expected it to turn into a flamewar, but it is to show that liberations can be misused, something apparently lost in liberate land of the liberals.

Raiders "just want to have fun" infact if haven lost it's PW it would not only be extremely difficult to raid, but the chances of it being a group who would want to re-found would be fairly low, it would likely be a true raider group who would simply hold it for a few days then leave.

Yes you wouldn't want to be raided, no one does but it is why the raider/defender balance is important, why respect should be shown between the two sides because without each other the game it's self would not be whole.

[Mudkips]

So R/D is for trolling.

Got it.

I'm glad we're clear now.

[Amazonian Beasts]

So R/D is for trolling.

Got it.

I'm glad we're clear now.

Pretty much...

[Northrop-Grumman]

Entertainment, like any other part of the game, Max Barry himself has remarked how he never expect so many communities to form. In essence it would not be NS without them, from RPers to raiders, defenders, Generalites, Forum 7 Goers, Issue Writers, Sports RPers, Neutral Gameplayers, WA supporters/Anti WA groups, all make Nationstates unique, fun and open to many people from around the world of different gender, race educational background, interests and so on.

You may see groups such as gameplay to only be a small piece in the puzzle but you'll find they are more inter connected than we believe they are. There is no one group the game is built upon, even though people try to claim theirs is, the truth is the game is all of us.

You ask why your region? well it is because of your reputation, it is because you would react, true no one expected it to turn into a flamewar, but it is to show that liberations can be misused, something apparently lost in liberate land of the liberals.

Raiders "just want to have fun" infact if haven lost it's PW it would not only be extremely difficult to raid, but the chances of it being a group who would want to re-found would be fairly low, it would likely be a true raider group who would simply hold it for a few days then leave.

Yes you wouldn't want to be raided, no one does but it is why the raider/defender balance is important, why respect should be shown between the two sides because without each other the game it's self would not be whole.

I believe the problem lies in the fact that for Generalites, Forum 7 Goers, Issue Writers, Sports RPer, WA groups, their actions do not take away from the enjoyment of the game for other people. Generalites keep their arguments and such bound within the confines of their forum, and while I personally am not much of a debater in politics, I can keep away from that by simply not going there.

The RPing aspect dealt with by the NS, II, and Sports subforums are also contained within their own little forums and the results of their actions are purely voluntary by other parties within the game and even within their own RPing groups. The WA, of which I am not a member nor do I browse their subforums, seems largely to keep to themselves, except in the case of this latest proposal.

See, the issue lies in the fact that everyone's participation and the consequences thereof are purely voluntary on the basis that I do not have to visit that subforum or I don't have to go to a particular part of the game (such as the WA or regional politics). The issue lying from the raider / defender portion is that involvement /is not/ voluntary and you are essentially forced into it without a say. Sure, Haven can take back their region after a few days, but the point is that their community would be disrupted, their enjoyment of the game diminished. No other aspect of the game does this to the community.

[Linux and the X]

from RPers

Whose game can be ignored if you don't want to participate in it

Generalites, Forum 7 Goers,

Don't like NSG or Forum 7? Don't click those links.

Issue Writers,

Mod-controlled, and you can still IGNORE the issues you don't like.

Sports RPers,

Just another part of RP that can be ignored.

Neutral Gameplayers,

They just sit around answer issues.

WA supporters/

WA membership is voluntary AND can be resigned.

Anti WA groups,

Essentially RP.

Then there's raiding. If raiders target your region, you CAN'T ignore them. THAT is why people dislike raiding. It's the only thing that people don't CHOOSE to participate in.

[Kalibarr]

from RPers

Whose game can be ignored if you don't want to participate in it

Generalites, Forum 7 Goers,

Don't like NSG or Forum 7? Don't click those links.

Issue Writers,

Mod-controlled, and you can still IGNORE the issues you don't like.

Sports RPers,

Just another part of RP that can be ignored.

Neutral Gameplayers,

They just sit around answer issues.

WA supporters/

WA membership is voluntary AND can be resigned.

Anti WA groups,

Essentially RP.

Then there's raiding. If raiders target your region, you CAN'T ignore them. THAT is why people dislike raiding. It's the only thing that people don't CHOOSE to participate in.

And yet all of them are as equally important as raiding to the continuation of Nationstates, kill one and the others are sure to fall

[Amazonian Beasts]

from RPers

Whose game can be ignored if you don't want to participate in it

Generalites, Forum 7 Goers,

Don't like NSG or Forum 7? Don't click those links.

Issue Writers,

Mod-controlled, and you can still IGNORE the issues you don't like.

Sports RPers,

Just another part of RP that can be ignored.

Neutral Gameplayers,

They just sit around answer issues.

WA supporters/

WA membership is voluntary AND can be resigned.

Anti WA groups,

Essentially RP.

Then there's raiding. If raiders target your region, you CAN'T ignore them. THAT is why people dislike raiding. It's the only thing that people don't CHOOSE to participate in.

And yet all of them are as equally important as raiding to the continuation of Nationstates, kill one and the others are sure to fall

Got any validity to that claim?

[Mudkips]

Got any validity to that claim?

I don't think he does.

I say we test his theory.

[A mean old man]

I say we test his theory.

As if you can.

[Kalibarr]

from RPers

Whose game can be ignored if you don't want to participate in it

Generalites, Forum 7 Goers,

Don't like NSG or Forum 7? Don't click those links.

Issue Writers,

Mod-controlled, and you can still IGNORE the issues you don't like.

Sports RPers,

Just another part of RP that can be ignored.

Neutral Gameplayers,

They just sit around answer issues.

WA supporters/

WA membership is voluntary AND can be resigned.

Anti WA groups,

Essentially RP.

Then there's raiding. If raiders target your region, you CAN'T ignore them. THAT is why people dislike raiding. It's the only thing that people don't CHOOSE to participate in.

And yet all of them are as equally important as raiding to the continuation of Nationstates, kill one and the others are sure to fall

Got any validity to that claim?

Tell me, what would happen if RP was outlawed and all the RPers left the game?

it would be a mess, WA would collapse, forums would be shut down, NS would lose a lot of money and might shut down because not enough people are playing...

Gameplay would suffer from lost recruits, big mess all around.

If raiding were banned the defenders would be out of a job, interregional politics would in essence cease to exist, players who think there is a way to have "war" in this game would leave as the out let of raiding would be closed to them. Regions would die, mass migration to cybernations, feeder fall into inactivity(worse than they already are), together resulting in new players seeing it as a dead game, not playing it and the doomsday scenario of NS shutting down would become a reality. Rpers wouls first only lose a small player base of those who participate in both sides of the game but as the WA became useless and the overall population decreased they would start taking a hit too, from lost players and eventual shut down.