by Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:42 pm
by Kandarin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:51 pm
Bavin wrote:Alright, as many of you know, there was recently an attemptby a known raider region and well known raider to "liberate" Haven from our legally elected (and well liked) delegate. This raises quite the problem: raiders "liberating" and the raiding RP regions who put our passwords up to avoid just that. Not because we don't want to be raided, just because we don't care, and raids are quite an annoyance when one tries to create an RPing sub-community like Haven. Naturally, me and my fellow Havenites didn't take too kindly to being forced to play a game we didn't want to, and harsh words were exchanged, on both sides. But lets put that behind us, and confront the larger problem: RP regions being forced to take part in the R/D game.
One possible solution, an "RP Region" button that would give a region immunity from "liberation"
Another, any region with no WA memebers being immune from "liberation".
Another would be to eliminate the "Liberate" function entirely, but I don't think that is necessary, at this point. Other suggestions would be much appreciated, "other then suck it up and deal", because that is tyranny, or as Derscon put it, rape.
I wish I remember who wrote:Games like Nationstates are like a big cardboard box, and there are two kinds of people in the world. The kind who look at the empty void inside the box and ask "Where the hell is it?" and the kind who jump into the box with their friends and make it into a fort, or a spaceship.
by Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:56 pm
Good point, which is why I distrusted this option. I came up with a justification before, but it escapes me now.Kandarin wrote:Bavin wrote:Alright, as many of you know, there was recently an attemptby a known raider region and well known raider to "liberate" Haven from our legally elected (and well liked) delegate. This raises quite the problem: raiders "liberating" and the raiding RP regions who put our passwords up to avoid just that. Not because we don't want to be raided, just because we don't care, and raids are quite an annoyance when one tries to create an RPing sub-community like Haven. Naturally, me and my fellow Havenites didn't take too kindly to being forced to play a game we didn't want to, and harsh words were exchanged, on both sides. But lets put that behind us, and confront the larger problem: RP regions being forced to take part in the R/D game.
One possible solution, an "RP Region" button that would give a region immunity from "liberation"
What is to stop raiders from taking over a region and declaring it a RP region, thus removing the only recourse against its annihilation?
Then maybe save liberate for this only, to be used at mod discretion, which would eliminate the tyranny by majorityAnother, any region with no WA memebers being immune from "liberation".
This would eliminate one of the other reasons why the liberation feature exists - some regions find themselves with a password and insufficient WAs to get a Delegate to remove it, thus dooming themselves to long slow death.
Another would be to eliminate the "Liberate" function entirely, but I don't think that is necessary, at this point. Other suggestions would be much appreciated, "other then suck it up and deal", because that is tyranny, or as Derscon put it, rape.Emphasis mine. I really don't think this is an analogy you want to make here. If the resolution is bad, convince people to vote against it. Given the reaction thus far, that shouldn't be hard at all.
by Kandarin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:13 pm
Then maybe save liberate for this only, to be used at mod discretion, which would eliminate the tyranny by majorityAnother, any region with no WA memebers being immune from "liberation".
This would eliminate one of the other reasons why the liberation feature exists - some regions find themselves with a password and insufficient WAs to get a Delegate to remove it, thus dooming themselves to long slow death.
Another would be to eliminate the "Liberate" function entirely, but I don't think that is necessary, at this point. Other suggestions would be much appreciated, "other then suck it up and deal", because that is tyranny, or as Derscon put it, rape.Emphasis mine. I really don't think this is an analogy you want to make here. If the resolution is bad, convince people to vote against it. Given the reaction thus far, that shouldn't be hard at all.
Hmm... good point, but the analogy was Derson's. I agree with you that the resolution probably will fail, but it still raises the problem, and some small RP region may not be able to protect itself as vociferously as Haven has.
I wish I remember who wrote:Games like Nationstates are like a big cardboard box, and there are two kinds of people in the world. The kind who look at the empty void inside the box and ask "Where the hell is it?" and the kind who jump into the box with their friends and make it into a fort, or a spaceship.
by Pythagosaurus » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:16 pm
by Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:17 pm
by Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:31 pm
Pythagosaurus wrote:You don't really have to be in the same region to RP, do you? It sounds like you do care.
Pythagosaurus wrote:That's not a problem. That's a feature.
by Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:31 pm
Bavin wrote:Hmm, I guess we are out of options at this point, but the problem of "liberating" regions that are using passwords constructively remains.
by Automagfreek » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:34 pm
Pythagosaurus wrote:That's not a problem. That's a feature.
by Bavin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:37 pm
Kalibarr wrote:
Prove to the WA your an RP region and it will almost surely fail, Liberate Haven will fail because of your response. You could always launch a TG campaign if you need further convincing
by Kalibarr » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 pm
Bavin wrote:Kalibarr wrote:
Prove to the WA your an RP region and it will almost surely fail, Liberate Haven will fail because of your response. You could always launch a TG campaign if you need further convincing
Problem is, that requires effort that the RPers have to make to avoid being seriously annoyed, effort that they, unlike defenders, have no wish to do, and find no fun in it.
by Automagfreek » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:40 pm
Kalibarr wrote:Prove to the WA your an RP region and it will almost surely fail, Liberate Haven will fail because of your response. You could always launch a TG campaign if you need further convincing
by Automagfreek » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:44 pm
Kalibarr wrote:Raiders have no wish to involve them selves in the WA RP stuff like liberations, but are forced under it's authority and forced to deal with the WASC. NO reason you shouldn't be too
by Mudkips » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:46 pm
Automagfreek wrote:Kalibarr wrote:Raiders have no wish to involve them selves in the WA RP stuff like liberations, but are forced under it's authority and forced to deal with the WASC. NO reason you shouldn't be too
Explain how a game feature like "Liberation" falls under roleplay. I don't think you realize that what takes place in NS and II is for the most part completely detached from anything WA related. WA roleplay has no relationship with NS/II roleplay in the slightest, and just about every regular RPer I know does not even acknowledge the WA as existing in terms of RP.
by Pythagosaurus » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:50 pm
Pythagosaurus wrote:That's not a problem. That's a feature.
Well, it is the opinion of me and many of the Havenite's I've spoken too that this feature is potentially problematic, even if such a proposal is unlikely to pass.
by Automagfreek » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:53 pm
Pythagosaurus wrote:Waa. Go find me a region that wants to be raided. Or are you suggesting that raiding should be banned?
by Scandavian States » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:54 pm
Kalibarr wrote:Raiders have no wish to involve them selves in the WA RP stuff like liberations, but are forced under it's authority and forced to deal with the WASC. NO reason you shouldn't be too
by Pythagosaurus » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:54 pm
Automagfreek wrote:Pythagosaurus wrote:Waa. Go find me a region that wants to be raided. Or are you suggesting that raiding should be banned?
You're making the assumption that I even care about raiding. I'm only on this site for roleplay, and my region only exists as a place for the guys in my circle to meet up, and as a recruiting tool to expand our RP circle. Why should the dedicated RPers on this site be forced to take part in game mechanics when we want no part of it?
by Mudkips » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:57 pm
Pythagosaurus wrote:Automagfreek wrote:Pythagosaurus wrote:Waa. Go find me a region that wants to be raided. Or are you suggesting that raiding should be banned?
You're making the assumption that I even care about raiding. I'm only on this site for roleplay, and my region only exists as a place for the guys in my circle to meet up, and as a recruiting tool to expand our RP circle. Why should the dedicated RPers on this site be forced to take part in game mechanics when we want no part of it?
Because the only other option is banning it.
by Kandarin » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:58 pm
Mudkips wrote:You could always just set Scandavian States as the founder. Edolia lost the password to the original founder a long, long time ago.
I wish I remember who wrote:Games like Nationstates are like a big cardboard box, and there are two kinds of people in the world. The kind who look at the empty void inside the box and ask "Where the hell is it?" and the kind who jump into the box with their friends and make it into a fort, or a spaceship.
by Scandavian States » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:00 am
Pythagosaurus wrote:Because the only other option is banning it.
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