[BUG?] Proposal not timing out

[The Dark Star Republic]

This proposal was meant to expire at the previous update. It made quorum. During the update, it lost 2 approvals, whether because people removed their approvals, or approvers lost their delegate status, or the quorum threshold inrceased, meaning that by the end of the update it needed 2 approvals and was set to time out "now".

At this update, it still needed 2 approvals. However, when update hit, the proposal did not time out.

This seems to be a bug, because once a proposal loses quorum, it should time out at the next update.

If I have misinterpreted the situation I apologise, but I would appreciate it being looked into. Note that even if the proposal then subsequently reaches quorum again, it should still arguably be removed as it should already have timed out.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

This proposal was meant to expire at the previous update. It made quorum. During the update, it lost 2 approvals, whether because people removed their approvals, or approvers lost their delegate status, or the quorum threshold inrceased, meaning that by the end of the update it needed 2 approvals and was set to time out "now".

At this update, it still needed 2 approvals. However, when update hit, the proposal did not time out.

This seems to be a bug, because once a proposal loses quorum, it should time out at the next update.

If I have misinterpreted the situation I apologise, but I would appreciate it being looked into. Note that even if the proposal then subsequently reaches quorum again, it should still arguably be removed as it should already have timed out.

I don't think it should be removed even if it reaches quorum! It had already reached quorum before the update, so it should stay in quorum.

[Jean Pierre Trudeau]

This proposal was meant to expire at the previous update. It made quorum. During the update, it lost 2 approvals, whether because people removed their approvals, or approvers lost their delegate status, or the quorum threshold inrceased, meaning that by the end of the update it needed 2 approvals and was set to time out "now".

At this update, it still needed 2 approvals. However, when update hit, the proposal did not time out.

This seems to be a bug, because once a proposal loses quorum, it should time out at the next update.

If I have misinterpreted the situation I apologise, but I would appreciate it being looked into. Note that even if the proposal then subsequently reaches quorum again, it should still arguably be removed as it should already have timed out.

I don't think it should be removed even if it reaches quorum! It had already reached quorum before the update, so it should stay in quorum.

Except that's not how it works.

[Mousebumples]

I don't know timing of things - and if there's a way to find it in the GM tools, I don't know where to look - but is it possible that the proposal was, perhaps, due to expire at, say, the most recent minor update? (*yes, it's still there, and no, I don't know why)

I also seem to vaguely recall (*based on memory not actual photographic evidence or anything) historically, that if a nation makes quorum and falls below quorum, it has an update or so to get back to quorum. But, honestly, I'm not a techie, so I'm not really sure on that.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I don't know timing of things - and if there's a way to find it in the GM tools, I don't know where to look - but is it possible that the proposal was, perhaps, due to expire at, say, the most recent minor update? (*yes, it's still there, and no, I don't know why)

It was meant to time out 3 updates ago. It made quorum. It then lost approvals. At the next update it was (2 approvals required) but it did not time out. At the next update it was back to quorum again.

I also seem to vaguely recall (*based on memory not actual photographic evidence or anything) historically, that if a nation makes quorum and falls below quorum, it has an update or so to get back to quorum.

Yes, that's my understanding too. My point is in this case it didn't make it back to quorum in time for the next update.

Put it this way, it's now four approvals short. It will be interesting to see what happens at the next update.

[Mousebumples]

I don't know timing of things - and if there's a way to find it in the GM tools, I don't know where to look - but is it possible that the proposal was, perhaps, due to expire at, say, the most recent minor update? (*yes, it's still there, and no, I don't know why)

It was meant to time out 3 updates ago. It made quorum. It then lost approvals. At the next update it was (2 approvals required) but it did not time out. At the next update it was back to quorum again.

I also seem to vaguely recall (*based on memory not actual photographic evidence or anything) historically, that if a nation makes quorum and falls below quorum, it has an update or so to get back to quorum.

Yes, that's my understanding too. My point is in this case it didn't make it back to quorum in time for the next update.

Maybe I was unclear, given how you're describing things and what I remember in the past.

[Proposal]: Minor-A - quorate
Major-A - sub-quoruate
Minor-B - will be removed from queue if still sub-quorate

The fact that (if I'm reading your description right) it got back to quorum at the theoretical "Minor-B" update might have confused the picture. Is it correct to presume that it was sub-quorate at the recent minor update?

[The Dark Star Republic]

Oh, I see. Yes, that's right, but you have it inverted: it was quorate at the minor updates, and below the threshold at the major update.

In that case we'd have to wait until the next-but-one update, which is when the proposal would actually go to vote, so I still think it's worth looking into.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

Oh, I see. Yes, that's right, but you have it inverted: it was quorate at the minor updates, and below the threshold at the major update.

In that case we'd have to wait until the next-but-one update, which is when the proposal would actually go to vote, so I still think it's worth looking into.

When is the next update?

[Phydios]

Oh, I see. Yes, that's right, but you have it inverted: it was quorate at the minor updates, and below the threshold at the major update.

In that case we'd have to wait until the next-but-one update, which is when the proposal would actually go to vote, so I still think it's worth looking into.

When is the next update?

Updates start around noon and midnight EST. Every day. Use a time zone converter if you need to.

[Mousebumples]

When is the next update?

Updates start around noon and midnight EST. Every day. Use a time zone converter if you need to.

Updates - i.e. the processing of WA proposals and resolutions - do start at noon/midnight EST. So about 3.5 hours from now (and 15.5 hours from now).

[The Dark Star Republic]

proposal is kill

Still not entirely sure why it didn't time out the first time, but the problem seems to have been resolved anyway.

[British Empire Strikes Back]

proposal is kill

Still not entirely sure why it didn't time out the first time, but the problem seems to have been resolved anyway.

RIP On Palm Oil! It could have changed the world for the better.

[Mousebumples]

proposal is kill

Still not entirely sure why it didn't time out the first time, but the problem seems to have been resolved anyway.

RIP On Palm Oil! It could have changed the world for the better.

You realize you can resubmit it if you'd like, right?

[British Empire Strikes Back]

RIP On Palm Oil! It could have changed the world for the better.

You realize you can resubmit it if you'd like, right?

Yes, I know. But I put so much work into it, campaigning for hours on end, I just don't know if I can do it again.

[The Sheika]

You realize you can resubmit it if you'd like, right?

Yes, I know. But I put so much work into it, campaigning for hours on end, I just don't know if I can do it again.

With a little bit of work, and a willingness to cooperate with other members in the WA, you may find it easier to go about your proposal a second time around. I do have to admit that what you were trying to accomplish was admirable, but you have to be patient and willing to compromise when it comes down to writing a proposal.

One suggestion that you could try would be instead of banning the palm oil, why not ban the most harmful methods of harvesting the product?

[Mousebumples]

Yes, I know. But I put so much work into it, campaigning for hours on end, I just don't know if I can do it again.

With a little bit of work, and a willingness to cooperate with other members in the WA, you may find it easier to go about your proposal a second time around. I do have to admit that what you were trying to accomplish was admirable, but you have to be patient and willing to compromise when it comes down to writing a proposal.

One suggestion that you could try would be instead of banning the palm oil, why not ban the most harmful methods of harvesting the product?

Such suggestions belong in his thread in the GA - not in Technical.

[Ballotonia]

I also seem to vaguely recall (*based on memory not actual photographic evidence or anything) historically, that if a nation makes quorum and falls below quorum, it has an update or so to get back to quorum. But, honestly, I'm not a techie, so I'm not really sure on that.

Nope, the system is harsh: at the beginning of update it checks for quorum and discards when the time has expired and quorum isn't there at that time. If a proposal has to sit in queue for some time while being expired, it has to maintain quorum at each update to not get discarded.

The system logs say the proposal was at quorum all the way until it was discarded. I don't know how to place the "it was below quorum" claims of the time it was kept in queue. If this happens again I hope to have time immediately so I can investigate better. Now there's really nothing left to investigate.

Ballotonia

[Kaboomlandia]

To sum it up:


The proposal was sitting at 90 approvals - one short - before update time on its last day. When I came back in the morning, I saw that it was still around, meaning that it must have made quorum long enough to stay up before falling back to 90 again. Then it fell down to 84, and was wiped at the major update the next day.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Nope, the system is harsh: at the beginning of update it checks for quorum and discards when the time has expired and quorum isn't there at that time. If a proposal has to sit in queue for some time while being expired, it has to maintain quorum at each update to not get discarded.

The system logs say the proposal was at quorum all the way until it was discarded.

Thanks for looking into it. That's how I thought it was meant to work; I was just concerned that it hadn't. But as it has, then no problem. :)