On Inactive Large Nations

[Jinwoy]

Twas, and I was ultimately better for it. But that's besides the point - it should be easier to get past nation names because no one is using them anymore.

Then that would apply to everyone, including names with a lingering negative reputation.

I'm sure there are valid reasons to make the waiting period as long as it is.

I'm somewhat agreeing to keeping mod-names or DOS nations like permnantly reserved, my argument applies to nations that cte'd.
If there is a reason, I would like to hear it?

[Scepez]

Same can be said about your stance. Should have come on NS earlier than that person. You snooze, you lose.

But that's not fair - if you haven't heard of NS, how are you supposed to choose a nation name?
That works about as much as dividing by zero.

Oh, but it is fair for that person that left? Please. People don't get what they always want, that's life. If you want to keep your name/nation safe you should always check your email so that it's active.
I've lost nations that way by not providing an email, but that was my own fault and I shouldn't get pampered for it.
Names are names. Those people can come back in a snap, and it would be a damn shame if their name got taken by some person who only wanted the name and didn't even care about the actual person and/or it's influence. (See the post above about how its almost like impersonation)

[Avalon]

I have revived puppets after 4 or 5 years, and didn't even know NS let me do that but I was glad I could do it. But I also think the current population limit (how much is it? 500 million?) is too low, one should have been playing for at least a year to reclaim a nation so old. If you stayed in NS for a whole year, then I think you could come back eventually, but you can reach 500 million just checking vacation mode and logging in twice or three times.

Anyway, I don't need any more fancy names, just my views on the matter

[Lordieth]

I think the main problem is that a nation name is ubiquitous with a login name, and for all sorts of reasons keeping login names unique is generally a good idea.

A better compromise would be allowing the user of "Nation X, formally Nation Y" For as long as Nation X remains inactive. Once they become active you'd lose the pseudonym. You could change your pseudonym at any time, providing nobody else is using it, and the owner is inactive.

It wouldn't appear anywhere but your nation page, and as you never lose your original nation name, it avoids impersonation issues.

[The Grey Wolf]

The problem is name sitting. People, even now, have inactive puppets merely to lay claim to names. That's the problem, not inactive large nations. As soon as you lower it, people will just lay claim to them, and sit on them. Then we're back to square one.

You should be able to "annex" nation names based on their activity level. That way, regardless of who you are, nobody can sit on nation names. This would include log in time, so anyone answering issues using script bots won't fare any better either.

After falling below the activity threshhold, your nation name would become available for annexation. When this happens and someone lays claim, they'll be alerted, and have x days to prevent annexation.

This seems sound enough.

[Esternial]

Then that would apply to everyone, including names with a lingering negative reputation.

I'm sure there are valid reasons to make the waiting period as long as it is.

I'm somewhat agreeing to keeping mod-names or DOS nations like permnantly reserved, my argument applies to nations that cte'd.
If there is a reason, I would like to hear it?

I meant that nations that CTE can also have a negative reputation. There are names in II that are associated with bad RP'ers or overall troublemakers.

You should ask Moderation for that.

One reason would be to allow people to return to their nations after a long time.

[The Grey Wolf]

What's stopping them from doing that now?
Making all nation names available after a year after being cte hurts no one, and the creator shoudlve thought longer about staying on ns before leaving in the first place, kind of like 'you snooze you lose'.

Same can be said about your stance. Should have come on NS earlier than that person. You snooze, you lose.

I really doubt a person who has been gone from NS for seven years is going to come back any time soon and just log in.

[Avalon]

I really doubt a person who has been gone from NS for seven years is going to come back any time soon and just log in.

I did, after almost five years. But there's no way to know they are completely gone, they may just be using some other nation in the meantime, and revive their CTE'd nations later, whenever they decide to and according to the rules.

[The Grey Wolf]

I really doubt a person who has been gone from NS for seven years is going to come back any time soon and just log in.

I did, after almost five years. But there's no way to know they are completely gone, they may just be using some other nation in the meantime, and revive their CTE'd nations later, whenever they decide to and according to the rules.

My own nation name was taken from a guy who has been gone since 2003. He had 10 years to come back and claim it. Anyone else who wanted it had about a decade as well. I just don't see why a nation name should be permanently locked away.

[Avalon]

Yeah, a decade it's too much for me too. Especially for nations that were active only for a couple of months. I'd say the more time you were active, the more time your name is reserved. I think that's similar to what Lordieth was saying, but I wouldn't measure log in time.

[Scepez]

I did, after almost five years. But there's no way to know they are completely gone, they may just be using some other nation in the meantime, and revive their CTE'd nations later, whenever they decide to and according to the rules.

My own nation name was taken from a guy who has been gone since 2003. He had 10 years to come back and claim it. Anyone else who wanted it had about a decade as well. I just don't see why a nation name should be permanently locked away.

I don't think a name should be permanently locked away.
But as stated above, those names can be associated with some bad things, so if we are going to allow to take names after say 2 years, I think the nations that have been deleted should not be open to name taking. And we shouldn't also revoke that right from people who bought the "Supporter" pack on NS.

[Ifreann]

This might be the least worthy thing people have ever given a shit about online.

[The Grey Wolf]

This might be the least worthy thing people have ever given a shit about online.

You've never seen the YouTube comment section then, Iffy.

[Avalon]

This might be the least worthy thing people have ever given a shit about online.

Your opinion is noted.

[Scepez]

This might be the least worthy thing people have ever given a shit about online.

Really? I thought it was the gamergate thing.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I would have thought people manufacturing ridiculous numbers of puppets was more responsible for taking up names.

[Ifreann]

This might be the least worthy thing people have ever given a shit about online.

You've never seen the YouTube comment section then, Iffy.

I do try to avoid them. I heard things. Terrible, terrible things.

---

This might be the least worthy thing people have ever given a shit about online.

Your opinion is noted.

Thanks.

---

I would have thought people manufacturing ridiculous numbers of puppets was more responsible for taking up names.

Silly Cupboard. Me taking over a hundred names for myself is perfectly fine, but someone else taking one name that I want is MEAN and I should be allowed to take it away from them.

[Nasal Bondage]

I have on occasion wished that a particular nation name was open for me to use, but it's really not that big of a deal. And even if it was, the implementation sounds like it would have to be so complex so nobody took advantage of the system, that it wouldn't be worth it anyway.

[Luna Amore]

What's stopping them from doing that now?
Making all nation names available after a year after being cte hurts no one, and the creator shoudlve thought longer about staying on ns before leaving in the first place, kind of like 'you snooze you lose'.

Not necessarily. The higher you bump up the population limit, the more likely you are to run into players that people remember. Let's say the site said if you've been gone for more than 5 years regardless of population, your name can be reused. Spoffin falls under that guideline. Now you might not know Spoffin, but I remember him. I'd be kinda confused if they recycled his name. It wouldn't make sense to recycle a name that has a history attached to it and it'd be impossible to sort through the millions of CTE'd nations and flag the ones people might remember.

Yeah, it's a drag. There's a name you want but it's taken. I ran into that when I joined over 11 years ago. Luna was taken. I slapped another word on the end. You make do.

[Narasymha]

This list http://forum.nationstates.net/memberlist.php?sk=a&sd=a&start=594000 lists a list of used names, including ex-nations. There is, aproximately, 594.150 used names. To at least try and limit the available names within the reasonable ones, I'll consider only names from 5 to 10 letters in an alphabet of 26 where no consonant is repeated and vowels and consonants are intercalated, starting from both. I'm not that good at math, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in this case we would have 55.897.221.250. So it would be something like 0,001% used.
Should we really worry?

I would have thought people manufacturing ridiculous numbers of puppets was more responsible for taking up names.

Large majority of puppets are identified under a single name.

[Luna Amore]

This list http://forum.nationstates.net/memberlist.php?sk=a&sd=a&start=594000 lists a list of used names, including ex-nations. There is, aproximately, 594.150 used names. To at least try and limit the available names within the reasonable ones, I'll consider only names from 5 to 10 letters in an alphabet of 26 where no consonant is repeated and vowels and consonants are intercalated, starting from both. I'm not that good at math, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in this case we would have 55.897.221.250. So it would be something like 0,001% used.
Should we really worry?

That's just a list of CTEd nations who also clicked on the forum (just this forum, which started in mid 2009) link creating a forum profile. There have been nearly 4 million nations (3,876,132 as of this post) since the game debuted. I'm not sure how many nations names have been released since the Name Release started, but I'd imagine it is a sizable (I'd guess ~1.5 million) chunk.

[Narasymha]

Ah, thanks. Even by the number you gave the percentage is pretty small.

* Where did you get it?

[Avalon]

Nah, but people complaining about this are usually interested in founding their own Ireland, America or Gondor... Something specific and meaningful. Most of them would feel frustrated anyway, even if those names were released, because too many people want them and only one gets it. Usually a puppeteer.

[The Batorys]

How terrible it must be to have to summon the sheer creativity to make up a name that hasn't been used yet.

My heart bleeds for you.

[Enfaru]

I agree with apparently the majority that names shouldn't be relinquished by the admins any more so than the current guidelines permit. In otherwords, I think the game currently strikes the right balance.

However, some people might voluntarily want to give up their nation complete, have it wiped and so on. These names should be released if the user themselves (confirmed by email in a similar way to wa membership) wishes to give up the name.

I would also be interested in seeing some of the limits raised in terms of how long before your nation is reserved nigh on permanently. I'm almost positive that when the guidelines were drawn up, no one in their wildest dreams thought NationStates would still be here :3.