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[SUBMITTED] An Age Old Problem

A place to spoil daily issues for those who haven't had them yet, snigger at typos, and discuss ideas for new ones.
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Baggieland
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[SUBMITTED] An Age Old Problem

Postby Baggieland » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:10 pm

Here's my next one.

[TITLE] An Age Old Problem

[DESCRIPTION] The long arm of the law finally caught up with the most notorious burglar in all of @@NAME@@. William @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@, who stole the ceremonial staff from parliament and terrorized many a neighbourhood, is now in custody. However, most @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ were shocked to discover that he is an 84 year old pensioner, and media is rife with the best way to deal with 'Burglar Bill'.

[VALIDITY] must allow elderly, have courts

[OPTION] "He's a common thief and shouldn't be afforded any special treatment just because of his age," declares @@RANDOMNAME@@, Head Warden at @@ANIMAL@@ Prison, as @@HE@@ runs @@HIS@@ truncheon along the radiator in your office. "The law is clear on how to deal with a repeat burglar, hand him the maximum sentence on the books. And at his age… allow me to throw away the keys!"

[EFFECT] jail house rock has been replaced with jail house golden oldies

[OPTION] "A little compassion shown to the elderly wouldn't hurt us," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a social worker, who despite being the victim of five burglaries @@HIM@@self, still believes in the good of humanity. "I do agree that some form of punishment needs to be given, but he's a frail old man now. Put an ankle monitor on him so he can't get up to his old tricks any more, and give him some community service."

[EFFECT] bingo nights get interrupted by the beeping of ankle monitors

[OPTION] "Grandpa is a good man! He raised me since I was a kid and always taught me right from wrong," states William @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@ III, Burglar Bill's grandson, as he discreetly pockets a valuable ornament from your shelf. "Look, he only swiped the staff from parliament for a dare, and as for all those other burglaries – he was robbing from the rich to give to his girlfr… I mean the poor. He's a right Robin Hood, he is. @@LEADER@@, you shouldn't allow prison sentences to be handed down to pensioners, let them live their final days in dignity with their family."

[EFFECT] retirement homes are under constant police surveillance


[TITLE] An Age Old Problem

[DESCRIPTION] The long arm of the law has caught up with the most notorious burglar in all of @@NAME@@. After 40 years of investigative diligence, the police finally arrested William @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@. Although he has admitted to stealing the ceremonial staff from parliament and terrorizing many a neighbourhood, that was all over 30 years ago and he has been living a quiet, upstanding and crime free life ever since. At 84 years old, the media is rife with the best way to deal with 'Burglar Bill'.

[VALIDITY] must allow elderly, have courts

[OPTION] "Grandpa is a good man! He raised me since I was a kid and always taught me right from wrong," states William @@RANDOMLASTNAME(1)@@ III, Burglar Bill's grandson, as he discreetly pockets a valuable ornament from your shelf. "Look, he only swiped the staff from parliament for a dare, and as for all those other burglaries – he was robbing from the rich to give to his girlfr… I mean the poor. He's a right Robin Hood, he is. He hasn't committed any crime for 30 years now; been helping out in the community and is well respected by everyone. Let him live his final days in dignity with his family."

[EFFECT] retirement homes are under constant police surveillance

[OPTION] "I don't care how old he is, nor that he's turned over a new leaf," declares @@RANDOMNAME@@, Head Warden at @@ANIMAL@@ Prison, as @@HE@@ runs @@HIS@@ truncheon along the radiator in your office. "He's a common thief and shouldn't be afforded any special treatment just because of his age. It cost the state thousands of @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ to replace the ceremonial staff, and his other victims deserve some kind of restitution. The law is clear on how to deal with a repeat burglar, hand him the maximum sentence on the books. And at his age… allow me to throw away the keys!"

[EFFECT] jail house rock has been replaced with jail house golden oldies

[OPTION] "A little compassion shown to the elderly wouldn't hurt us," muses @@RANDOMNAME@@, a social worker, who despite being the victim of five burglaries @@HIM@@self, still believes in the good of humanity. "After all, everyone acknowledges that he hasn't done anything illegal for decades, however, I do agree that some form of punishment needs to be given. As he's a frail old man now, just put an ankle monitor on him, and give him some community service."

[EFFECT] bingo nights get interrupted by the beeping of ankle monitors


[TITLE] Running From Time

[DESCRIPTION] The long arm of the law has finally caught up with the most notorious burglar in @@NAME@@. After 40 years of investigative diligence, the man who stole the ceremonial staff from parliament, has been named as William @@RANDOMLASTNAME@@. The only problem is that the statute of limitations prevents the state from trying 'Burglar Bill'.

[VALIDITY] must allow elderly, have courts

[OPTION] "We absolutely must keep the statute of limitations," declares @@RANDOMNAME@@, a civil rights lawyer, who recently managed to get 'Psycho Pete' released on compassionate grounds. "After so many years, evidence deteriorates and is no longer viable. Also, as is the case here, the suspect is now a frail, old man who has committed no crime in decades. The police were clearly incompetent in their inability to locate William before the statute expired. A better trained police force will prevent this from happening again."

[EFFECT] criminals lock themselves in their mums' basements to avoid prison

[OPTION] "Whose bright idea was it to introduce limitations?" demands @@RANDOMNAME@@, Head Warden at @@ANIMAL@@ Prison, as @@HE@@ runs @@HIS@@ truncheon along the radiator in your office. "This man is a common thief and shouldn't be allowed to get away with what he did. It cost the state thousands of @@CURRENCYPLURAL@@ to replace the ceremonial staff, not to mention the national embarrassment it caused us. Just because he managed to avoid detection for four decades, doesn't mean he shouldn't pay for his crime. Abolish the statute of limitations, and put this criminal where he belongs – in jail!"

[EFFECT] jail house rock has been replaced with jail house golden oldies

[OPTION] "Burglar Bill is awesome!" announces your younger brother, as he adds the latest addition to his 'Burglar Bill scrapbook', which he has had since he was a kid. "The daring break-in into parliament, avoiding the cops for 40 years - this man knows his stuff! You should make Burglar Bill the Chief of Police; his inside knowledge of the criminal underworld makes him the perfect fit for the job."

[EFFECT] the only crimes that get investigated are doughnut heists
Last edited by Baggieland on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:47 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:17 pm

I don't know what to make of this issue. Is this a real thing?
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:43 pm

Since this is only a three option issue, I feel like you could add more meat to options one and two. The premise is funny, but maybe you also want to specify the crimes committed were recent. After reading the description for the first time, I thought they finally caught him after searching for a long time.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:57 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:I don't know what to make of this issue. Is this a real thing?
Sure, it happens.

Reminds me of a previous draft, which concerns a criminal who was already in jail rather than one who has just been caught, but also addesses the basic idea of punishing elderly people. Has that submission been rejected?

For that matter, you see something similar at the other end of the age spectrum.

Sacara wrote:Since this is only a three option issue, I feel like you could add more meat to options one and two. The premise is funny, but maybe you also want to specify the crimes committed were recent. After reading the description for the first time, I thought they finally caught him after searching for a long time.
Yeah, it's vague about that. In fact, the only clear indication of when the crimes took place is in the second option, which says "he's a frail old man now", implying some sort of contrast with when the crimes were committed. Other speakers seem to imply more recent crimes, as nobody really presents "hasn't it been so long that it's not worth worrying about anymore?" as an argument.

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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:01 am

Trotterdam wrote:Reminds me of a previous draft, which concerns a criminal who was already in jail rather than one who has just been caught, but also addesses the basic idea of punishing elderly people. Has that submission been rejected?


Just checked. 'The sickest criminals' is in the 'waiting to be picked up by an editor' pool. Although the premise and storyline are different, the issues are exactly the same: should the elderly serve their time in prison or not?

Going to have to abandon this one, then.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:40 am

I could've sworn we had an issue named this, too...

Must've been a draft or something, but my word, is my mind playing tricks on me.

Sorry to see it not work out, Baggie. :(
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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:07 pm

Jutsa wrote:Sorry to see it not work out, Baggie.


Ah well, such is life. :)

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:22 am

I still don't get what the blood's about. Did the midwife kill the baby?
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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:42 am

Australian rePublic wrote:I still don't get what the blood's about. Did the midwife kill the baby?


Umm, I think that's Free Joy States' draft.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:52 am

You've both got gold names; y'don't see threads by editors so often so I get the confusion. :blush:
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:18 am

Baggieland wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:I still don't get what the blood's about. Did the midwife kill the baby?


Umm, I think that's Free Joy States' draft.

Well, I'm an idiot


Sorry that it didn't work out
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:12 am

Sorry to see this not work out, but there is a similar concept that could be worthy of pursuing here in NS.

Sometimes the long arm of the law takes a long time to catch up with criminals- sometimes even decades. In that time, the criminal can well 'settle down' and become just a nice elderly individual who bakes cookies and has the grandchildren round once a month. It has occurred that local communities appeal to the authorities to not lock up these people on the basis that they have changed.

Perhaps go at this from that angle?
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:23 pm

What about that one dude that was removed from the country for being a nazi war criminal. Perhaps that could be an issue? A person from Brasilistan is found to have been a war criminal from sixty years ago — deport him or no?
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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:31 am

Chan Island wrote:Sometimes the long arm of the law takes a long time to catch up with criminals- sometimes even decades. In that time, the criminal can well 'settle down' and become just a nice elderly individual who bakes cookies and has the grandchildren round once a month. It has occurred that local communities appeal to the authorities to not lock up these people on the basis that they have changed.

Perhaps go at this from that angle?


Thanks Chan. It's definitely worth a go. I've reworked the intro and all options to make it clear that Burglar Bill has lived a crime-free life for the last 30 years.

Just checked The Sickest Criminal draft again, and that issue is more about people dying in prison and should there be compassionate release. So I think they're enough different now to warrant this issue. But then again I'm biased! If you guys could run your independent eyes over this and let me know if they are indeed different enough.

Sacara wrote:What about that one dude that was removed from the country for being a nazi war criminal. Perhaps that could be an issue? A person from Brasilistan is found to have been a war criminal from sixty years ago — deport him or no?


I've decided to keep it as a burglar. Mainly because if you change it to a Nazi type war criminal, someone who was involved in a genocide, people's emotions might come into play and everyone will choose the throw away the keys option. The same as if you change it to an issue based on the Zodiac killer. By keeping it as a lesser crime, there's more chance of all the options being explored.

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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:39 am

Fair enough. I'll check back in again sometime.
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:41 am

Seems to me this issue might work best if focused on the idea of statutes of limitations. As in, bring up the arguments for and against such a concept.

Right now, the issue is asking "should you forgive and forget if it was a long time ago?" and the answer clearly is no, though you could compassionately moderate punishment to account for age and frailty.

A more legally relevant question, in my mind, is whether you can have a fair trial and sufficient quality of evidence to bring conviction for the accused, thirty years after the event.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:03 pm

Wait, if he's old and frail, how is community service possible?
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Krogon
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Postby Krogon » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:28 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Wait, if he's old and frail, how is community service possible?


I was asking that same question. Maybe change community service to non labor community service?

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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:34 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Seems to me this issue might work best if focused on the idea of statutes of limitations.

Good call, there's an actual law related to this!

3rd draft is up, all changed to be around the statute of limitations.

Not that keen on the new title, suggestions welcome!

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:32 am

I agree. Change the focus to statutes of limitations
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:00 pm

I love the new focus.

Aussie, you really ought to read a whole thread before you make comments. Baggie made the changes several hours before you said he should do so.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:09 pm

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Aussie, you really ought to read a whole thread before you make comments. Baggie made the changes several hours before you said he should do so.
Or at least read the first post of the thread. Isn't this why we edit changes into the first post? So that new readers can quickly see the current state of the issue and so easily tell which parts of the discussion are out-of-date?

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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:44 am

Would still like suggestions for a new title, please guys! :)

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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:05 pm

Just shotgunning a few:
    Long Arm of the Law Not Long Enough
    Running From Time
    Stalling Because of Statue
    Lawful Elderly Discount
    Being Old Comes With Perks
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Baggieland
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Postby Baggieland » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:49 pm

Sacara wrote:Just shotgunning a few:
    Long Arm of the Law Not Long Enough
    Running From Time
    Stalling Because of Statue
    Lawful Elderly Discount
    Being Old Comes With Perks


Thanks Sacara, I've gone with the top one and have edited it into the 3rd draft.

Any more comments on this one guys?

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