[ABANDONED] The Old Dike and the Sea

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:02 pm

Orange words are suggestions, orange ellipsis are removed phrases, underlined words are comments. I have no idea where the title is from, but I feel like something like it is some poetic phrase some historical figure said at some point or was written into some highly-acclaimed novel. Until someone can suggest a better title, it's what I'll use.

Code: Select all: [color=#FF6A00][/color]

Title: The Old Dike and the Sea
Validity: In issue #342: This Land Was Made For You And Me, the nation chose Option 4
Description: The nation's plan for sea reclamation was going great until one of the old dikes spontaneously weakened. After a storm, it was unable to hold back the water and eventually burst, releasing so much water that a[/color] small town was consumed by the resultant deluge.

Option 1: "Honestly, your nation's flood defenses are terrible, @@LEADER@@," claims Zee Zuid, @@A@@ @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ engineer renowned for her work with sea reclamation and flood defense. "I know just about everything anyone needs to know about floods, since I've been fixing them since I could write and talk! In fact, I'll go and fix up your awful defenses for a small fee, although you'll unfortunately have to cover it with taxes. But in the end, not even the collective tears of frustrated gamers and whiny children will overcome this wall!"
Fallout 1: even the mightiest of tsunamis fail to penetrate the Great @@NAME@@ Coastal Defenses

(must have private industry)
Option 2: "You want the citizens to pay for it? That's absurd!" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, an entrepreneur of a company specializing in dam building. "Nobody will want to pay millions in taxes to move their beaches farther. Even worse, a tax hike for this will achieve nothing![/color ] Instead, how about you [color=#FF6A00]open up the potential for businesses like me — ones with expertise in controlling water — that want to try their hand at reclaiming the sea? A few guys might end up owning everything coastal, but it's better than charging everyone."
Fallout 2: the nations' wealthy force beachgoers to pay for entry into privately-owned reclaimed beaches

Option 3: "This was a horrible idea in the first place!" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, an environmentalist opposed to land reclamation. "If we hadn't decided to dry up the seas, my twice-removed cousin might still have their house. Plus, there are disastrous environmental effects from it, like reducing the territory of marine animals! And it's plain dangerous, especially when the soil starts liquefying and sliding everywhere from the seawater. You need to stop any and all land reclamation projects, or you'll surely regret it when ninety percent of the nation's land is drowned!"
Fallout 3: the failed land reclamation projects of @@NAME@@ are now known as the "modern Atlantis"

Option 4: "Hi, Billy Swift here with Tight Tape! The future solution to widespread flooding!" yells the owner of the Tight Tape company ... after his abrupt entrance. "Poorly-made dikes destroying whole towns and causing major damage? That's not a problem with my products. Just slap some of this stuff onto those pathetic structures with the might of gods, and no water will ever leak past. Short on money? Don't worry @@LEADER@@, this stuff will be way cheaper than Zee's suggestion."
Fallout 4: the government's solution to a lot of damage is copious amounts of tape

Option 5: "Instead of unstable land reclamation, how about we encourage people to live on boats?" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, an owner of a cruise ship. "They can still return to land for their jobs and whatnot or work on other ships. That way, any previous residential land can be converted into industry and shops, and our population can instead live on the practically infinite seas instead of pricey and dangerous plots of land on prior ocean. Sea sickness might be a small problem, but we'll get used to it."
Fallout 5: cruise ships now qualify as real estate in @@NAME@@

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:03 pm

To make it easier to edit the original post, this post will be getting edited for previous copies so then I don't have to deal with a mile-long post each time I have to make a change.

Title: The Old Dike and the Sea
Validity: In issue #342: This Land Was Made For You And Me, the nation chose Option 4
Description: The nation's plan for sea reclamation was going great until one of the old dikes spontaneously weakened. After a storm, it was unable to hold back the water and burst, releasing so much water that several small towns were consumed by the resultant deluge.

Option 1: "Honestly, your nation's flood defenses ... are terrible, @@LEADER@@," claims Zee Zuid, a Welkinland immigrant known for her work with Welkin flood defense. "Where I come from, we've had to deal with floods since we were known as the Welkins, so we're pretty knowledgeable in this sort of stuff. In fact, I'll go and fix up your awful defenses for a small fee. Not even the collective tears of frustrated gamers and whiny children will overcome this wall!"
Fallout 1: even the mightiest of tsunamis fail to penetrate the Great @@NAME@@ Coastal Defenses

Option 2: "This was a horrible idea in the first place!" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, an environmentalist opposed to sea reclamation. "If we hadn't decided to dry up the seas, my twice-removed cousin might still have their house. Plus, there are disastrous environmental effects from reclamation, like... um... just know that there are! And it's plain dangerous, especially when the soil starts liquefying and sliding everywhere from the water. You need to stop any and all land reclamation projects, or you'll surely regret it when ninety percent of the nation's land is drowned!"
Fallout 2: nobody is reclaiming lost items from now-flooded reclaimed land

Option 3: "But what if we just reclaim more land?" asks local town idiot @@RANDOMNAME@@. "It's just like printing more money to counter inflation, only with land and water! Just think about it: if we have thousands of plots of reclaimed land, the water can't flood it all, right? As it is, we only have like a hundred plots, which is easy to flood because there's less space for the water to consume. Therefore, more plots equals more space equals a region that's harder to flood! Flawless logic, am I right?"
Fallout 3: citizens drive farther and farther for beaches due to mass land reclamation

Title: The Old Dike and the Sea
Validity: In issue #342: This Land Was Made For You And Me, the nation chose Option 4
Description: The nation's plan for sea reclamation was going great until one of the old dikes was somehow weakened without anyone's knowledge. After a storm, the levee was unable to hold back the water and burst, releasing so much water that several small towns were consumed by the resultant deluge.

Option 1: "Your flood defenses in place are terrible, @@LEADER@@," claims Zee Zuid, a Welkinland immigrant known for her work with Welkin flood defense. "Where I come from, we've had to deal with floods since we were known as the Welkins, so we're pretty knowledgeable in this sort of stuff. In fact, I'll fix up your awful defenses for a small fee. Not even the collective tears of frustrated gamers and whiny children will overwhelm this wall!"
Fallout 1: even the mightiest of tsunamis fail to penetrate the Great @@NAME@@ Coastal Defenses

Option 2: "This was a horrible idea in the first place!" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, an environmentalist opposed to sea reclamation. "If we hadn't decided to dry up the seas, my twice-removed cousin might still be alive. Plus, there are disastrous environmental effects from reclamation, like... um... just know that there are! And it's plain dangerous, especially when the soil starts liquefying and sliding everywhere from the water. You need to stop any and all land reclamation projects, or you'll surely regret it!"
Fallout 2: nobody is reclaiming lost items from now-flooded reclaimed land

Option 3: "But what if we just reclaim more land?" asks local town idiot @@RANDOMNAME@@. "It's just like printing more money to counter inflation, only with land and water! Just think about it: if we have thousands of plots of reclaimed land, the water can't flood it all, right? As it is, we only have like a hundred plots, which is easy to flood because there's less space for the water to consume. Therefore, more plots equals more space equals a region that's harder to flood! Flawless logic, am I right?"
Fallout 3: citizens drive farther and farther for beaches due to mass land reclamation

Title: Reclaiming What was Lost
Validity: In issue #342: This Land Was Made For You And Me, the nation chose Option 4
Description: The nation's plan for sea reclamation was going great until someone mistook the dike as garden soil that they could take. After a storm, the severely weakened dike was unable to hold back the water and burst, releasing so much water that several small towns were consumed by the resultant deluge.

Option 1: "Your flood defenses in place are terrible, @@LEADER@@," claims Zee Zuid, a Welkinland immigrant known for her work with Welkin flood defense. "Where I come from, we've had to deal with floods since we were known as the Welkins, so we're pretty knowledgeable in this sort of stuff. In fact, I'll fix up your awful defenses for a small fee. Not even the collective tears of frustrated gamers and whiny children will overwhelm this wall!"
Fallout 1: even the mightiest of tsunamis fail to penetrate the Great @@NAME@@ Coastal Defenses

Option 2: "This was a horrible idea in the first place!" says @@RANDOMNAME@@, an environmentalist opposed to sea reclamation. "If we hadn't decided to dry up the seas, my twice-removed cousin might still be alive. Plus, there are disastrous environmental effects from reclamation, like... um... just know that there are. And it's plain dangerous, especially when the soil starts liquefying and sliding everywhere from the water. You need to stop any and all land reclamation projects, @@LEADER@@!"
Fallout 2: nobody is reclaiming lost items from now-flooded reclaimed land

Option 3: "But what if we just reclaim more land?" asks local town idiot @@RANDOMNAME@@. "It's just like printing more money to counter inflation, only with land and water! Just think about it: if we have thousands of plots of reclaimed land, the water can't flood it all, right? As it is, we only have like a hundred plots, which is easy to flood because there's less space for the water to consume. Therefore, more plots equals more space equals a region that's harder to flood! Flawless logic, am I right?"
Fallout 3: citizens drive farther and farther for beaches due to mass land reclamation

by **Australian rePublic** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:38 pm

How do you confuse a dike for soil

by **Candensia** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:41 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:How do you confuse a dike for soil

dikes can in fact be made of earth, literal soil.

however, it would be obvious that it would be a bad idea to dig into such a thing, so I do agree with your sentiment, in a limited capacity.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:30 pm

Candensia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:How do you confuse a dike for soil

dikes can in fact be made of earth, literal soil.

however, it would be obvious that it would be a bad idea to dig into such a thing, so I do agree with your sentiment.

The person saw a hill, concluded it was soil, never looked at the other edge to see ocean. Note sure how realistic it is, but I can still change the description.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:09 pm

Bump.

by **Trotterdam** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:04 am

Does this look like a natural hill formation to you?

tt also looks pretty thick. I doubt taking a few shovelfulls of soil from it would make a meaningful difference.

by **Jutsa** » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:15 am

Well, I could see people thinking it was natural if they weren't very smart, tbh; especially if you see that from their eyes.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:21 pm

Made some small edits.

by **Palos Heights** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:37 am

Reclaiming the Land of the Lost?
The Old Dike and the Sea?

Just some ideas for a title.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:56 pm

Palos Heights wrote:Reclaiming the Land of the Lost?
The Old Dike and the Sea?

Just some ideas for a title.

These sound like book titles, but they aren't... I'll go with the latter.

by **Candlewhisper Archive** » Tue May 01, 2018 1:46 am

I didn't think sea reclamation generally used dykes in the long run, but rather was generally approached via infilling.

After all, it makes no sense to create new coastal land that is below sea level. Even with sea barriers in place, there'd be regular flooding and drainage problems.

by **Jutsa** » Tue May 01, 2018 8:45 am

*Looks at New Orleans*

Also #342.4:

"I have a much, much more palatable solution," assures your Minister of Internal Expansion, rubbing his hands together greedily. "Let's expand our coasts. How do we do that you ask? Simple, we reclaim it from the surrounding seas. All we need to do is build levees and dikes and pump out the water. It'll take some serious desalinization and a constant, reliable power source to accomplish, but it'll be worth it in the long run."

Edit: Actually that's already in the validity.

by **Palos Heights** » Tue May 01, 2018 11:12 am

Shwe Tu Colony wrote:
Palos Heights wrote:Reclaiming the Land of the Lost?
The Old Dike and the Sea?

Just some ideas for a title.

These sound like book titles, but they aren't... I'll go with the latter.

Well The Old Man and the Sea is indeed a novel and that's what I figured could work in reference.

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I didn't think sea reclamation generally used dykes in the long run, but rather was generally approached via infilling.

After all, it makes no sense to create new coastal land that is below sea level. Even with sea barriers in place, there'd be regular flooding and drainage problems.

Maybe it wasn't used like that in the long run, but I've seen it used in smaller projects. Create a barrier off the shore, separate body of water from rest of larger body of water, pump out water, fill with land. Something like that on a massive scale, while impractical, seems like the wacky kind of thing NationStates would employ.

by **Trotterdam** » Tue May 01, 2018 11:56 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:I didn't think sea reclamation generally used dykes in the long run, but rather was generally approached via infilling.

After all, it makes no sense to create new coastal land that is below sea level. Even with sea barriers in place, there'd be regular flooding and drainage problems.

I don't think Wikipedia agrees with you.

by **Shwe Tu Colony** » Tue May 01, 2018 3:21 pm

Trotterdam wrote:I don't think Wikipedia agrees with you.

In fact, this issue was inspired by the Dutch's shenanigans with their polders, which is how I got the name for Zee Zuider (Zuiderzee Works) & Welkinland (welkin means sky/heaven, sky is the opposite of the Nether is Netherlands). If we still think dikes are too unrelaistic, I might be able to do soil liquefaction. Plus, as Jutsa said, the minister did mention levees & dikes, so the nation is definitely using them somewhere to reclaim land.

"I have a much, much more palatable solution," assures your Minister of Internal Expansion, rubbing his hands together greedily. "Let's expand our coasts. How do we do that you ask? Simple, we reclaim it from the surrounding seas. All we need to do is build levees and dikes and pump out the water. It'll take some serious desalinization and a constant, reliable power source to accomplish, but it'll be worth it in the long run."

by **Palos Heights** » Tue May 01, 2018 3:40 pm

Shwe Tu Colony wrote:
Trotterdam wrote:I don't think Wikipedia agrees with you.

In fact, this issue was inspired by the Dutch's shenanigans with their polders, which is how I got the name for Zee Zuider (Zuiderzee Works) & Welkinland (welkin means sky/heaven, sky is the opposite of the Nether is Netherlands). If we still think dikes are too unrelaistic, I might be able to do soil liquefaction. Plus, as Jutsa said, the minister did mention levees & dikes, so the nation is definitely using them somewhere to reclaim land.

"I have a much, much more palatable solution," assures your Minister of Internal Expansion, rubbing his hands together greedily. "Let's expand our coasts. How do we do that you ask? Simple, we reclaim it from the surrounding seas. All we need to do is build levees and dikes and pump out the water. It'll take some serious desalinization and a constant, reliable power source to accomplish, but it'll be worth it in the long run."

I say, get rid of the "do we do that you ask" bit and make it "How?". The rest of it sounds good, just maybe tweak it a bit so it sounds more in-character.

by **Trotterdam** » Tue May 01, 2018 3:46 pm

Palos Heights wrote:I say, get rid of the "do we do that you ask" bit and make it "How?". The rest of it sounds good, just maybe tweak it a bit so it sounds more in-character.

Shwe Tu Colony wasn't proposing an option for this draft. He was quoting the existing #342 option 4.

by **Palos Heights** » Tue May 01, 2018 3:49 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Palos Heights wrote:I say, get rid of the "do we do that you ask" bit and make it "How?". The rest of it sounds good, just maybe tweak it a bit so it sounds more in-character.
Shwe Tu Colony wasn't proposing an option for this draft. He was quoting the existing #342 option 4.

:curb your enthusiasm song plays:

by **Candlewhisper Archive** » Wed May 02, 2018 7:40 am

Huh, so people do do that.

Seems like a bad idea and inviting eventual disasters to me, but I'm not an engineer.

by **Jutsa** » Wed May 02, 2018 9:47 am

I mean, Hurricane Katrina kinda killed New Orlenes.

Then they went and did it again in the same exact place.

Ed: I too am surprised at how many wacky NS options turn up IRL.

by **Trotterdam** » Wed May 02, 2018 11:33 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Seems like a bad idea and inviting eventual disasters to me, but I'm not an engineer.

Well, yeah. Floods are the single most common disaster in the Netherlands. That's why we got even better at building dikes.

Wikipedia wrote:Flood control is an important issue for the Netherlands, as about two thirds of its area is vulnerable to flooding, while the country is among the most densely populated on Earth.

Wikipedia wrote:The current sea defenses are stronger than ever, but experts warn that complacency would be a mistake.

Wikipedia wrote:Without dikes, the Netherlands would be flooded to this extent

It would certainly be a valid political position that this is unreasonably dangerous and we should not be doing it. However, there are also many who would simply say "challenge accepted!". That's why this is a meaningful political issue.

If everyone thought this was a great idea with no downsides, there'd be no issue.

If you're interested in the political consequences of all this, you may also want to look at these:

Wikipedia wrote:As a result of flooding disasters, water boards called waterschap (when situated more inland) or hoogheemraadschap (near the sea, mainly used in the Holland region) were set up to maintain the integrity of the water defences around polders, maintain the waterways inside a polder, and control the various water levels inside and outside the polder. Water boards hold separate elections, levy taxes, and function independently from other government bodies. Their function is basically unchanged even today. As such they are the oldest democratic institution in the country. The necessary cooperation among all ranks to maintain polder integrity gave its name to the Dutch version of third way politics—the Polder Model.

Wikipedia wrote:So ever since the Middle Ages, when the process of land reclamation began, different societies living in the same polder have been forced to cooperate because without unanimous agreement on shared responsibility for maintenance of the dykes and pumping stations, the polders would have flooded and everyone would have suffered. Crucially, even when different cities in the same polder were at war, they still had to cooperate in this respect. This is thought to have taught the Dutch to set aside differences for a greater purpose.

by **Jutsa** » Wed May 02, 2018 11:43 am

Huh. I seriously didn't think that their being below sea level was why they were so inclusive. Amazing. :clap:

by **Candlewhisper Archive** » Fri May 04, 2018 2:15 am

Jutsa wrote:Huh. I seriously didn't think that their being below sea level was why they were so inclusive. Amazing.

Hmm, now I'm thinking that there should be a proposal to lower the land level of the USA, in order to encourage communalism.

by **Trotterdam** » Fri May 04, 2018 2:18 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:Hmm, now I'm thinking that there should be a proposal to lower the land level of the USA, in order to encourage communalism.

With the current administration's policies on global warming, I'm pretty sure they're already on that.

[ABANDONED] The Old Dike and the Sea

[ABANDONED] The Old Dike and the Sea

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