Firehelm: The Dominion of Chaos

[Revall]

If you look at our regional poll you'll see we are a duck loving region, dogs are enemies of our duck overlords.

Then we need to suppress NSA he is going on about horses:

Nice hit guys. Let the horsies neigh.

[EnTgeisTerT]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not aware that this region, which does everything to signal that it's a fascist region except use the Fascist tag, maintains embassies with a number of Nazi regions and regularly supports Nazi Europa's raids. They used to use the Fascist tag. I'm not going to post it here, because I think it may violate NationStates rules to do so, but until earlier today their forum skin also had the Nazi German swastika as its background.

I look forward to seeing their forces ejected from your raid.

I'm puzzled as to why you actually care about this. After all:

"19 minutes ago: Cormactopia II removed the tag "Anti-Fascist" from Osiris."

See: Osiris Embassy Thread. The Communists haven't been too kind to Osi.

[Plagentine]

four hailed from Kaiserreich

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not aware that this region, which does everything to signal that it's a fascist region except use the Fascist tag, maintains embassies with a number of Nazi regions and regularly supports Nazi Europa's raids.

I'm not going to post it here, because I think it may violate NationStates rules to do so, but until earlier today their forum skin also had the Nazi German swastika as its background.

I look forward to seeing their forces ejected from your raid.

The logo on their forum that i can see is a black bird on a yellow background, which is not in the least indicative of anything fascist. The embassies will be closed shortly, and in the case that we do not see the closure of fascist embassied within a couple days then we will break away from our previous agreement which we made in good faith and permanently cut off any ties that we have with Kaiserreich. Also as far as i am aware NE and K-reich do not have good relations anymore and actually have tensions between them. But in any case, we have offered them a chance to redeem their reputation and show that they are indeed an imperialist region, should they break our trust all relations will cease effective immediately.

[Scieca]

I'm puzzled as to why you actually care about this. After all:

"19 minutes ago: Cormactopia II removed the tag "Anti-Fascist" from Osiris."

See: Osiris Embassy Thread. The Communists haven't been too kind to Osi.

What that has to do with anything? Just because we made a mistake in assuming that Cormac appointed a fascist as his Vizier of War doesn't mean that Osiris had to give up its anti-fascist alignment.

[Cormactopia II]

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not aware that this region, which does everything to signal that it's a fascist region except use the Fascist tag, maintains embassies with a number of Nazi regions and regularly supports Nazi Europa's raids. They used to use the Fascist tag. I'm not going to post it here, because I think it may violate NationStates rules to do so, but until earlier today their forum skin also had the Nazi German swastika as its background.

I look forward to seeing their forces ejected from your raid.

I'm puzzled as to why you actually care about this. After all:

"19 minutes ago: Cormactopia II removed the tag "Anti-Fascist" from Osiris."

Anti-fascism isn't our main focus, raiding is. That doesn't mean we're comfortable with other raiders working with fascists and Nazis. Only in the minds of the NationStates far left does removal of the Anti-Fascist tag seem to imply the addition of the Fascist tag.

Please feel free to take complaints about and swipes at Osiris to the Osiris thread. Thanks.

The logo on their forum that i can see is a black bird on a yellow background, which is not in the least indicative of anything fascist. The embassies will be closed shortly, and in the case that we do not see the closure of fascist embassied within a couple days then we will break away from our previous agreement which we made in good faith and permanently cut off any ties that we have with Kaiserreich. Also as far as i am aware NE and K-reich do not have good relations anymore and actually have tensions between them. But in any case, we have offered them a chance to redeem their reputation and show that they are indeed an imperialist region, should they break our trust all relations will cease effective immediately.

I've seen a screen shot of their forum with the Nazi swastika, taken earlier today. I'll make sure you get it via Skype.

The rest of what you said is fair enough. I just wanted to make sure Firehelm and the other two mainstream raider regions supporting your raid are fully aware of this region's troubling history.

[Big Bad Badger]

Great work guys! Keep it up!

[Verborgenen Herrn]

Firehelm and Kaiserreich celebrating their attempted 'cleansing' of Vanet

Cleansing? Huh? Ever heard of lighting starting fires?

It would seem that Firehelm has fallen back to its founder's original ways

Well it looks like T E Lawrence is "back to his original ways" as well since he was fully aware of and had no problem with our involvement in the raid.

and in particular Kaiserreich and its glorious Reich Chancellor "The Awesome Reich of Nazi Kingdom of Neo-Prussia".

Nazi Germany MK II. Do I see a nation with the word "nazi" in honorable Westphalia? My word! Must be a racist slime pit.

Afterall, they have spoken about wishing "To unite marginalized invaders through the effective education of aspiring gameplayers in the art of invading through the promotion and spread of raider ideals", and there is no group more marginalized, due to its extremism and hateful rhetoric, than the NS Right. Let us rejoice on this glorious day of invading progress!

(Image)

Given your Predator comments it's no secret that if it was up to you all raiders would be 'cleansed' from the game. Thankfully you're not running the place. A year ago many of today's raiders were using an illegal tool which got a bunch of people banned. Yet no one's holding that over their head today. Because we live in the present not the past. Time passes, communities change.

As K-reich is heavily involved in Roleplay my understanding is that the tag materialized to reflect ongoing roleplay themes then veered the region off into the wrong direction when it started generating embassy requests from gameplayer fascist regions. Also there seems to be a common misconception (at least among NS's most common age group) that the word "Reich" can only refer to the Third Reich, so inevitably it's going to attract young players still in the stage of exploring radical political viewpoints. We're not going to ideologically screen our residents: if they are willing to conduct themselves in an acceptable manner while they are in the region, they are welcome to stay.

Just look at their Reich Chancellor's nation afterall.

Seriously? After playing the game for 6 years judging the player by her nation is one of your main arguments? Creating 100s of puppets is usually enough for someone to realize that most of the time no one takes nation design seriously because it's a game and one designed to have a humorous bent at that. But if you insist:

flag: iron cross and prussian eagle
motto translation: Strength, nobility and creativity
capital: Fritz Lang's Metropolis
currency: Preußenmarks
animal: Prussian Eagle
religion: Awesome Christianity that is Awesome

However, a nation made up as a cookie-cutter Nazi Germany in its name, region, and custom fields (e.g. motto, currency), with no contrary context or redeeming content, is hard to interpret as anything other than an endorsement of that real-life nation's most well-known acts.

The appearance of Neo-Prussia's nation comes nowhere close to referencing the RL Third Reich.

it certainly hasn't done any actually visible re-branding

The major things like the fascist tag and embassy with Nazi Europa were removed. RMB discussion is acceptable. We didn't consider it necessary to start an embassy witch hunt. Are you implying that anyone who isn't obsessed with cleansing any reference to fascism from their region is automatically themselves a fascist?

Embassies have always been a favorite tool of those seeking to "expose" fascists but in reality they mean next to nothing. Anyone can hit a button and build an embassy, but having two different communities integrate and get to know each other is an altogether different beast which requires real work to accomplish. So in all but the most selective regions embassies don't stand for much and the communities largely remain strangers, and K-reich has always been quite liberal in accepting embassies.

I remember how TRF justified raiding neutral regions because one of their friends of a friend had an embassy with a fascist-tagged region

[Silverakia]

Hi!

[Cormactopia II]

<snip>

Your "changed" community was using a Nazi German swastika as its forum background image until earlier today.

[T E Lawrence]

Well it looks like T E Lawrence is "back to his original ways" as well since he was fully aware of and had no problem with our involvement in the raid.

I've been on leave, but I thought it would be best to pop back in for a second.

This was an operation conducted by Firehelm, with apparently only one nation from The Invaders participating. I have no problem with helping old friends from Firehelm, and I wouldn't care even if they were working with the RLA or FRA.

If they'd like our help, we'll help.

[Eskvor]

<snip>

Your "changed" community was using a Nazi German swastika as its forum background image until earlier today.

We actually have a rather pathetic reason for that, in that almost all of us are worthless at coding, so we ripped off one of NE's old designs as they were the only GERMAN based region we could find in the forums, it was a stop gap measure due to our incompetence with the forum code and has now been rectified by flying our war flag, however, we have no friendly relations with NE in any capacity, this primarily stemming from Woodhouse slandering the Reich in a rant as his given reason for abandoning the AAN occupation half-way through.

As for the spat you seem to have with Neo-Prussia, she has a factbook describing the origin of her nation in which she explains that King Fritzler and his subjects chose to still use Nazi uniforms and the like simply because they looked cool.

[Verborgenen Herrn]

Your "changed" community was using a Nazi German swastika as its forum background image until earlier today.

We actually have a rather pathetic reason for that, in that almost all of us are worthless at coding, so we ripped off one of NE's old designs as they were the only GERMAN based region we could find in the forums, it was a stop gap measure due to our incompetence with the forum code and has now been rectified by flying our war flag, however, we have no friendly relations with NE in any capacity, this primarily stemming from Woodhouse slandering the Reich in a rant as his given reason for abandoning the AAN occupation half-way through.

As for the spat you seem to have with Neo-Prussia, she has a factbook describing the origin of her nation in which she explains that King Fritzler and his subjects chose to still use Nazi uniforms and the like simply because they looked cool.

According to Scansinia, he was unfamiliar with forum software back when he had just created the region so he asked The Gregorach (NE forum admin) to make one for him, and the latter apparently ended up creating a carbon copy of Nazi Europa's forums.

As you can see from the date of the most recent posts, we don't use our forum very much and it's mostly abandoned so fixing the theme was not a huge priority, but still Scansinia had been trying to find for a while someone who knew how to edit the CSS theme code.

This isn't your Tumblr page.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Cormactopia II]

It seems like you have a lot of really convenient excuses for why your region is no longer a fascist region despite still appearing to be one. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not buying any of them.

That said, given the ambiguous nature of your region, I'm not going to hold it against Firehelm, HYDRA Command, The Invaders, et al., if they continue working with you because they take you at your word that you're no longer a fascist region. Osiris certainly won't be working with you, though, and for the sake of maintaining class and professionalism in raiding, I hope they will all reconsider as well.

[We Are Not the NSA]

It seems like you have a lot of really convenient excuses for why your region is no longer a fascist region despite still appearing to be one. I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not buying any of them.

That said, given the ambiguous nature of your region, I'm not going to hold it against Firehelm, HYDRA Command, The Invaders, et al., if they continue working with you because they take you at your word that you're no longer a fascist region. Osiris certainly won't be working with you, though, and for the sake of maintaining class and professionalism in raiding, I hope they will all reconsider as well.

Hydra decided against forming relations with KR about a month ago. The only reason that we worked with them in this instance was that we were helping Firehelm, and they were helping Firehelm. Our allies trust them, so we won't use their presence as an excuse to turn our backs on our allies.

[Silverakia]

I'm puzzled as to why you actually care about this. After all:

"19 minutes ago: Cormactopia II removed the tag "Anti-Fascist" from Osiris."

Anti-fascism isn't our main focus, raiding is. That doesn't mean we're comfortable with other raiders working with fascists and Nazis. Only in the minds of the NationStates far left does removal of the Anti-Fascist tag seem to imply the addition of the Fascist tag.

Please feel free to take complaints about and swipes at Osiris to the Osiris thread. Thanks.

The logo on their forum that i can see is a black bird on a yellow background, which is not in the least indicative of anything fascist. The embassies will be closed shortly, and in the case that we do not see the closure of fascist embassied within a couple days then we will break away from our previous agreement which we made in good faith and permanently cut off any ties that we have with Kaiserreich. Also as far as i am aware NE and K-reich do not have good relations anymore and actually have tensions between them. But in any case, we have offered them a chance to redeem their reputation and show that they are indeed an imperialist region, should they break our trust all relations will cease effective immediately.

I've seen a screen shot of their forum with the Nazi swastika, taken earlier today. I'll make sure you get it via Skype.

The rest of what you said is fair enough. I just wanted to make sure Firehelm and the other two mainstream raider regions supporting your raid are fully aware of this region's troubling history.

The swastika (also known as the hakenkreuz, gammadion cross, cross cramponnée, or tetraskelion) (as a character: 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious symbol that generally takes the form of an equilateral cross, with its four legs bent at 90 degrees.[1][2] It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and dates back to before the 2nd century BC.[3]

Western literature's older term for the symbol, gammadion cross, derives mainly from its appearance, which is identical to four Greek gamma letters affixed to each other.[4] The name swastika comes from the Sanskrit word svastika (Devanāgarī: स्वास्तिक), meaning "lucky or auspicious object".[4]

It has been used as a decorative element in various cultures since at least the Neolithic. It is known most widely as an important symbol, long used in Indian religions, denoting "auspiciousness."

It was adopted as such in pre-World War I-Europe and later, and most notably, by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany prior to World War II. In many Western countries, the swastika has been highly stigmatized because of its use in and association with Nazism.[5]

It continues to be commonly used as a religious symbol in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.[3]

[We Are Not the NSA]

Anti-fascism isn't our main focus, raiding is. That doesn't mean we're comfortable with other raiders working with fascists and Nazis. Only in the minds of the NationStates far left does removal of the Anti-Fascist tag seem to imply the addition of the Fascist tag.

Please feel free to take complaints about and swipes at Osiris to the Osiris thread. Thanks.


I've seen a screen shot of their forum with the Nazi swastika, taken earlier today. I'll make sure you get it via Skype.

The rest of what you said is fair enough. I just wanted to make sure Firehelm and the other two mainstream raider regions supporting your raid are fully aware of this region's troubling history.

The swastika (also known as the hakenkreuz, gammadion cross, cross cramponnée, or tetraskelion) (as a character: 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious symbol that generally takes the form of an equilateral cross, with its four legs bent at 90 degrees.[1][2] It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and dates back to before the 2nd century BC.[3]

Western literature's older term for the symbol, gammadion cross, derives mainly from its appearance, which is identical to four Greek gamma letters affixed to each other.[4] The name swastika comes from the Sanskrit word svastika (Devanāgarī: स्वास्तिक), meaning "lucky or auspicious object".[4]

It has been used as a decorative element in various cultures since at least the Neolithic. It is known most widely as an important symbol, long used in Indian religions, denoting "auspiciousness."

It was adopted as such in pre-World War I-Europe and later, and most notably, by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany prior to World War II. In many Western countries, the swastika has been highly stigmatized because of its use in and association with Nazism.[5]

It continues to be commonly used as a religious symbol in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.[3]

Yeah, the screenshot in question shows an eagle made out of blood clutching a swastika. I highly doubt it is a Hindi, Jainist or Buddhist swastika.

[Plagentine]

I should probably announce that Firehelm has permanently cut ties with KR effective immediately and our point in Vanet has been instructed to eject KR soldiers that are present there. This is due to some bits of information I've acquired via various channels which are both relevant and irrelevant to fascism. It is unfortunate that our diplomatic experiment has ended in such a way, i suppose that i had foolish hopes. Regardless, the matter is now concluded.

[Olevsky]

What a surprise!

[Cormactopia II]

I should probably announce that Firehelm has permanently cut ties with KR effective immediately and our point in Vanet has been instructed to eject KR soldiers that are present there. This is due to some bits of information I've acquired via various channels which are both relevant and irrelevant to fascism. It is unfortunate that our diplomatic experiment has ended in such a way, i suppose that i had foolish hopes. Regardless, the matter is now concluded.

Good choice. I don't think anyone (besides defenders, but who cares?) will hold it against you for giving KR the benefit of the doubt at first.

[Silverakia]

The swastika (also known as the hakenkreuz, gammadion cross, cross cramponnée, or tetraskelion) (as a character: 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious symbol that generally takes the form of an equilateral cross, with its four legs bent at 90 degrees.[1][2] It is considered to be a sacred and auspicious symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism and dates back to before the 2nd century BC.[3]

Western literature's older term for the symbol, gammadion cross, derives mainly from its appearance, which is identical to four Greek gamma letters affixed to each other.[4] The name swastika comes from the Sanskrit word svastika (Devanāgarī: स्वास्तिक), meaning "lucky or auspicious object".[4]

It has been used as a decorative element in various cultures since at least the Neolithic. It is known most widely as an important symbol, long used in Indian religions, denoting "auspiciousness."

It was adopted as such in pre-World War I-Europe and later, and most notably, by the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany prior to World War II. In many Western countries, the swastika has been highly stigmatized because of its use in and association with Nazism.[5]

It continues to be commonly used as a religious symbol in Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism.[3]

Yeah, the screenshot in question shows an eagle made out of blood clutching a swastika. I highly doubt it is a Hindi, Jainist or Buddhist swastika.

Swastika is simply a symbol that represents strength. The Nazis ruined it.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Yeah, the screenshot in question shows an eagle made out of blood clutching a swastika. I highly doubt it is a Hindi, Jainist or Buddhist swastika.

Swastika is simply a symbol that represents strength. The Nazis ruined it.

That's not really what the debate is about though. The issue is that a former fascist region that claims it is no longer fascist was using what was clearly a Nazi swastika on their forums as late as yesterday. Personally I agree that the swastika is a cool symbol, and the Nazis ruined it, but that isn't really relevent to what we're talking about.

[RiderSyl]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

.. That was actually a perfect response.

[Eskvor]

Swastika is simply a symbol that represents strength. The Nazis ruined it.

That's not really what the debate is about though. The issue is that a former fascist region that claims it is no longer fascist was using what was clearly a Nazi swastika on their forums as late as yesterday. Personally I agree that the swastika is a cool symbol, and the Nazis ruined it, but that isn't really relevent to what we're talking about.

Yes, we were not able to properly code the forums for a while, and issue that you can search for and verify in past RMB posts, so we took NE's old forum design until we could come up with a proper German design or picture. We never intended for this to be a symbol of Fascism, it's simply the symbol we used until we could find a viable alternative.

[Sedgistan]

The posts on blackmail/leaking of PII by Verborgenen Herrn have been split here, so any further discussion/questions on that matter should go there.

[Revall]

Firehelm has concluded our successful operation in Vanet. We saw a great turnout for both the initial strike as well as upwards of thirty pilers. Vapid even managed to convert some natives to our cause and drive off the former delegate

Thanks to our friends in HYDRA Command, The Invaders and The Black Hawks for standing with us in the spirit of raider unity.