Grand Central

[Klaus Devestatorie]

I have proposed a constitutional amendment passed that will a; give the citizens of Grand Central an avenue to object and cancel any similar incident happening again (remove a newly accepted citizen applicant that nobody wanted) and b; ensure that this constitutional amendment can be retroactively applied to the applications of Feuer and Nuke.

In the meantime, I now know why 94 Block allowed these two into Grand Central; the overarching reason was exactly what I expected, but part of the associated rationale behind it was beyond appalling. I will not be participating there again.

Care to share?

I imagine whoever's already been leaking stuff from the Grand Central chat for the last couple of weeks will have your back.

[Dark Robes]

One of our "poor, poor citizens" was, until earlier tonight when she departed your region due to the presence of Nuke, a dual citizen of Osiris and Grand Central. That's what I mean when I say that this doesn't just affect your citizens. This isn't just an internal matter. What your leaders and forum administrators are allowing affects many people who don't exist exclusively in Grand Central, and Osiris will not stand for mistreatment of our citizens by Grand Central. Neither should any other region.

I was never aware she was there. I've made it clear how I feel about the matter. I was removed from DEN, and left NS because of my horrific actions. I've done terrible shit on NS. I'm not proud of it. The sexual harassment? Betraying a friend and deliberately hurting her is not something I just take in stride. I fucked up, I'm a predator, a monster, I'm everything you claim I am. I hurt an innocent girl, a friend out of my own selfish desires. I don't want to be forgiven or given a pity party. I just want to move on and try to prevent this sort of shit from happening again. Yet no matter who long I stay off or where I go I'm driven away? How do I change and become a better person if I'm treated with scorn?

As I've said multiple times in the Skype chat and in the forums, you can "reform" yourself somewhere else where your victims are not.

[Brunhizzle]

As I've said multiple times in the Skype chat and in the forums, you can "reform" yourself somewhere else where your victims are not.

If you want to be "reformed" after something like that you can try changing your name and acting like it never happened. It'd be better for those that were hurt to never have to see the person that hurt them again.

[The Dourian Embassy]

I've tried. Where do I go? I went to the one place I knew people and then it turns out she's there too. I didn't have plans to interact with her. I felt it best not to talk to her again. Why don't I leave? I still have friends here and still am addicted to this game. What I don't want and what I'm trying to explain is I don't want people not involved in my disgusting acts to be blamed for something they were not involved with. GC didn't just allow me in. In fact, they weren't going to originally. They took a vote after I explained myself and what my goal was. Most simply do not trust me and that's fine. If you want to blame someone: blame me. GC isn't at fault for allowing me in. I'm the one who harassed numerous people on NS, I'm the one who sexually harassed someone. Most of this shit is because, I'm a goddamned bully. I did it to feel powerful, to feel good about myself. After I "retired", I did a lot of thinking. I realized being a bully, being the bad guy wasn't fun. I was tired of hurting people, I was tired of being an asshole to everyone. I feel I could at least do something decent to change myself instead of just doing the usual song and dance I typically did in the past.

What do you think happens in a region that regularly lets people who have your history in? Do you think more will show up? Some not so genuine in their reformation? Do you think your victim can ever feel safe in such a place? It's not about you personally. It's about the over-arching issue of how a community deals with predators.

What you're saying, and failing to recognize is this: "I am genuinely sorry. Now, let me tell you about what I want." If you genuinely want to make amends, you have to stop thinking about what you want.

You want to come back to the game. You want to find a region willing to take you on. You want to show the world that you have changed. Your victim wants to not be around you. That last thing should be the only thing that matters to you. When you found out she was there, you should've left. But in a more general sense, you should never have put her in that position in the first place. Assume, from now on, your victim is wherever you want to go in NS. Now, with that assumption, what should you do to avoid hurting her again?

[CoraSpia]

The back-and-forth between Osiris and GC members in this thread needs to stop. Seriously.
I'm increasingly feeling as if I'm being asked to choose between two regions I hold citizenship in because they refuse to work together. I admit that I disagree with giving the people concerned full citizenship: some form of probationary citizenship would have been more appropriate. However, the statements of things like 'Grand Central needs to die' and other such unnecisary remarks only inflame already unnecisarily high tentions between the two regions.

The members from Osiris posting are well-known GPers. They have a right to an opinion. However, I would urge them to restrain themselves from making comments which only make the situation more serious than it needs to be. I don't want to see the mods becoming involved in this, since I don't want to see anyone punished, but I fear that that is what could happen if this carries on (not that I'd even consider reporting.)

So that's just my two cents as a joint citizen of GC and Osiris.

[RiderSyl]

The members from Osiris posting are well-known GPers. They have a right to an opinion. However, I would urge them to restrain themselves from making comments which only make the situation more serious than it needs to be.

The state of Grand Central invoked a response in me that wasn't a forum post, or a rant in an offsite chat. My response was a total alignment change in R/D.

Tell me how serious this situation "needs to be", Coraspia.

[CoraSpia]

The members from Osiris posting are well-known GPers. They have a right to an opinion. However, I would urge them to restrain themselves from making comments which only make the situation more serious than it needs to be.

The state of Grand Central invoked a response in me that wasn't a forum post, or a rant in an offsite chat. My response was a total alignment change in R/D.

Tell me how serious this situation "needs to be", Coraspia.

Not so serious as to call for the death of an entire region. I can't think of many things that are serious enough for that.

[RiderSyl]

Not so serious as to call for the death of an entire region. I can't think of many things that are serious enough for that.

Then God Bless your innocent mind.

[CoraSpia]

Not so serious as to call for the death of an entire region. I can't think of many things that are serious enough for that.

Then God Bless your innocent mind.

Well, if the entire region was dedecated to sexual harassment, that would call for it. GC isn't though.

[RiderSyl]

Then God Bless your innocent mind.

Well, if the entire region was dedecated to sexual harassment, that would call for it. GC isn't though.

I don't think I'll be following your brand of logic on this one.

[The Ghost of Festavo]

I would just like to point out that Nuke and Feuer Ritter are no longer citizens of Grand Central.

[CoraSpia]

I would just like to point out that Nuke and Feuer Ritter are no longer citizens of Grand Central.

Why?

[Soames]

I would just like to point out that Nuke and Feuer Ritter are no longer citizens of Grand Central.

Now can everyone stop being drama queens? Must be a slow day in Gameplay.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

I would just like to point out that Nuke and Feuer Ritter are no longer citizens of Grand Central.

Now can everyone stop being drama queens? Must be a slow day in Gameplay.

There's still the question of why they were allowed in in the first place, when your staff knew full well that it was putting at least two members at risk and had access to the evidence it prove it. It's a step, but not an end. Especially when some of those responsible for the decision have shown no signs of taking back their view that the victims in this case were, what was it, "overreacting" and "leading on?"

[Soames]

Now can everyone stop being drama queens? Must be a slow day in Gameplay.

There's still the question of why they were allowed in in the first place, when your staff knew full well that it was putting at least two members at risk and had access to the evidence it prove it. It's a step, but not an end. Especially when some of those responsible for the decision have shown no signs of taking back their view that the victims in this case were, what was it, "overreacting" and "leading on?"

I'll let people defend their own statements. I came into this thread and called for foreign leaders like Cormac to stop inflaming the issue and let the internal process of our region work it out. Eventually, it did, but thanks to them we've had to suffer the rancor in between then. This would have gone far more smoothly had they stayed out.

[RiderSyl]

Yeah, Cormac and other foreigners were upset because your region allowed in harassers with the victims they harassed. Fuck us, right?

You have no right to sit here and talk trash about the completely justified outrage.

[Soames]

Yeah, Cormac and other foreigners were upset because your region allowed in harassers with the victims they harassed. Fuck us, right?

We gave somebody a chance instead of pushing a permanent shame button. The harasser has been severely punished up until this point, and rehabilitation must follow punishment. And yes, the juxtaposition of the two was concerning, which is why we wanted to enforce all laws and kick the guy out if he acts up. Of course this is a moot point. Our leaders miscalculated how well this would go down with the community as a whole. But they weren't pro-harasser. They're for forgiveness, and they're for the law.

And now we see that the harassers have left our region. So the controversy is dead. We didn't need Osiris to incite tensions in such a sensitive time. It confused the issue. It made us all more hostile than we needed to be. You should have left us to our own devices.

have no right to sit here and talk trash about the completely justified outrage.

Who the hell are you?

[Valrifell]

I would just like to point out that Nuke and Feuer Ritter are no longer citizens of Grand Central.

Now can everyone stop being drama queens? Must be a slow day in Gameplay.

It's always a slow day in Gameplay.

[Cormactopia II]

Now can everyone stop being drama queens? Must be a slow day in Gameplay.

There's still the question of why they were allowed in in the first place, when your staff knew full well that it was putting at least two members at risk and had access to the evidence it prove it. It's a step, but not an end. Especially when some of those responsible for the decision have shown no signs of taking back their view that the victims in this case were, what was it, "overreacting" and "leading on?"

Very much this. Grand Central's leadership should not be let off the hook, and are not off the hook in the eyes of Osiris, just because Nuke and Feuer Ritter have left. That doesn't change that they admitted them to citizenship in the first place and did so in such a way that was incredibly disrespectful and hurtful to Kemi and others.

[Soames]

There's still the question of why they were allowed in in the first place, when your staff knew full well that it was putting at least two members at risk and had access to the evidence it prove it. It's a step, but not an end. Especially when some of those responsible for the decision have shown no signs of taking back their view that the victims in this case were, what was it, "overreacting" and "leading on?"

Very much this. Grand Central's leadership should not be let off the hook, and are not off the hook in the eyes of Osiris, just because Nuke and Feuer Ritter have left. That doesn't change that they admitted them to citizenship in the first place and did so in such a way that was incredibly disrespectful and hurtful to Kemi and others.

So what do you want to see happen?

[RiderSyl]

have no right to sit here and talk trash about the completely justified outrage.

Who the hell are you?

The one of us with perspective.

[Cormactopia II]

Very much this. Grand Central's leadership should not be let off the hook, and are not off the hook in the eyes of Osiris, just because Nuke and Feuer Ritter have left. That doesn't change that they admitted them to citizenship in the first place and did so in such a way that was incredibly disrespectful and hurtful to Kemi and others.

So what do you want to see happen?

Removal of 95 Block as an Elder and forum administrator -- which shouldn't be a controversial step for Grand Central anyway, given that he has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past -- and recall of Festavo from the office of Stationmaster. At that point, we would accept that Grand Central as a community is taking this matter seriously enough. Anything short of that is just an attempt to sweep this under the rug. They are the ones who were responsible for this, to varying degrees, and they are the ones who should face consequences for it in Grand Central.

[Soames]

So what do you want to see happen?

Removal of 95 Block as an Elder and forum administrator -- which shouldn't be a controversial step for Grand Central anyway, given that he has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past -- and recall of Festavo from the office of Stationmaster. At that point, we would accept that Grand Central as a community is taking this matter seriously enough. Anything short of that is just an attempt to sweep this under the rug. They are the ones who were responsible for this, to varying degrees, and they are the ones who should face consequences for it in Grand Central.

Why should we start down an implausible path of removing important members of our region when we can simply implement controls to ensure that this doesn't occur again? For example, Klaus is already working on a constitutional amendment.

[Plagentine]

So what do you want to see happen?

Removal of 95 Block as an Elder and forum administrator -- which shouldn't be a controversial step for Grand Central anyway, given that he has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past -- and recall of Festavo from the office of Stationmaster. At that point, we would accept that Grand Central as a community is taking this matter seriously enough. Anything short of that is just an attempt to sweep this under the rug. They are the ones who were responsible for this, to varying degrees, and they are the ones who should face consequences for it in Grand Central.

You are enjoying this way too much, Cormac. Take a breather.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Removal of 95 Block as an Elder and forum administrator -- which shouldn't be a controversial step for Grand Central anyway, given that he has twice destroyed Grand Central's forums in the past -- and recall of Festavo from the office of Stationmaster. At that point, we would accept that Grand Central as a community is taking this matter seriously enough. Anything short of that is just an attempt to sweep this under the rug. They are the ones who were responsible for this, to varying degrees, and they are the ones who should face consequences for it in Grand Central.

Why should we start down an implausible path of removing important members of our region when we can simply implement controls to ensure that this doesn't occur again? For example, Klaus is already working on a constitutional amendment.

Whether or not that applies to this case, sometime those things are the same. See: Community response to Predator.