The West Pacific Union

[That Called the Vlagh]

Thank you.

I assume you meant that to be an insult. Not being misogynist myself, I find it flattering that you would think I could be equivalent to the undoubtedly accomplished women that would be part of the actual WPO.

For those slower on the uptake, I believe the implication is "West Pacific Order."

And for those apparently even slower on the uptake, my comment was in response to Sentinel agreeing that WPO stood for Women's Presidents Organization, which is an actual thing. Unlike the West Pacific Order, which is not.

[That Called the Vlagh]

Regardless, if I'm correct, then I am correct. Endorsement caps and the possibility of ejection have nothing to do with a nation's choice to endorse the sitting Delegate nation.

However, if you decide to not endorse the delegate, and endorse others, you are probs gonna bet ejected for being a security threat to the region.

According to who? There are scores of nations in TWP that do not endorse the Delegate nation and endorse other nations.

[The Silver Sentinel]

Ah, 'friendly banter'...good to know what casual sexism is called these days. Thanks.

Good to know you can resort to low blows when you can't back up your point. I have went out of my way to attack your position, and not you. I would appreciate the common debate courtesy in return.

Regardless, if I'm correct, then I am correct. Endorsement caps and the possibility of ejection have nothing to do with a nation's choice to endorse the sitting Delegate nation.

I'm sorry, I am not seeing how choice has a role in this. The way I see it there are three choices:

1. Not join the WA.
2. Join the WA, not endorse Ele, and get punted out of the region.
3. Join the WA and endorse Ele so that he can remain in power indefinitely.

You show me where a good choice is there?

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

For those slower on the uptake, I believe the implication is "West Pacific Order."

And for those apparently even slower on the uptake, my comment was in response to Sentinel agreeing that WPO stood for Women's Presidents Organization, which is an actual thing. Unlike the West Pacific Order, which is not.

Friendly and joking agreement, followed by a distinctly less friendly if possibly still "joking" implication of misogyny, sure.

Implication may be too kind of a choice of diction. Accusation may be better suited.

[That Called the Vlagh]

Ah, 'friendly banter'...good to know what casual sexism is called these days. Thanks.

Good to know you can resort to low blows when you can't back up your point. I have went out of my way to attack your position, and not you. I would appreciate the common debate courtesy in return.

Regardless, if I'm correct, then I am correct. Endorsement caps and the possibility of ejection have nothing to do with a nation's choice to endorse the sitting Delegate nation.

I'm sorry, I am not seeing how choice has a role in this. The way I see it there are three choices:

1. Not join the WA.
2. Join the WA, not endorse Ele, and get punted out of the region.
3. Join the WA and endorse Ele so that he can remain in power indefinitely.

You show me where a good choice is there?

Actually, that is incorrect on several counts.

1. In going back over the last page I can find nothing from you that backs up your point except for baseless accusation regarding other nations that I may OOC be associated with, and even that is poorly done.
2. In several instances you allude to me being incapable of arguing my point to the point of near insult (again, while failing to supply any support for your own position). So I fail to see how you have gone out of your way in any circumstance.
3. You agreed with another nation that WPO in reference to myself and TWP meant Womens Presidents Organization. You did that, I didn't make that up. Considering the manner in which you have responded to me throughout this 'exchange' there is absolutely no reason why I would not take that as you presenting it as a perceived insult towards my masculinity. I find that laughable on many levels and simply called you on it. It wasn't a personal insult, it was an observation. If you honestly had no intention of utilizing that as an insult, and I find that very hard to believe, then I apologize.

As to the rest of your post, as I noted above, your position on #2 is wrong. There are plenty of nations in TWP that do not endorse Elegarth.

[That Called the Vlagh]

And for those apparently even slower on the uptake, my comment was in response to Sentinel agreeing that WPO stood for Women's Presidents Organization, which is an actual thing. Unlike the West Pacific Order, which is not.

Friendly and joking agreement, followed by a distinctly less friendly if possibly still "joking" implication of misogyny, sure.

Implication may be too kind of a choice of diction. Accusation may be better suited.

It was 100% an accusation. I didn't realize it was unclear.

[Soviet El Paso]

Popular election already exists within the feeders. No nation is compelled to support the Delegate nation. If the nations of TWP did not wish Elegarth to be Delegate then he wouldn't be. As it stands, he is, therefore I support whatever system of government he supports. In the current instance it is autocratic. If he decided to institute an oligarchical system like many of the other feeders utilize, I would support that as well.

I hate to harp on a minor point but please note the two two lines I highlighted. The two ideas seem at odds.

I can appreciate an autocracy but I'm confused about it being conflated with a popular vote, that is, the Delegate endorsement list. The nations of TWP would not have a choice about Elegarth being Delegate, if he is indeed an autocrat.

[ROM]

However, if you decide to not endorse the delegate, and endorse others, you are probs gonna bet ejected for being a security threat to the region.

According to who? There are scores of nations in TWP that do not endorse the Delegate nation and endorse other nations.

I was talking about aggressively endorsing other nations in the region without endorsing the delegate, but sure.

[That Called the Vlagh]

Popular election already exists within the feeders. No nation is compelled to support the Delegate nation. If the nations of TWP did not wish Elegarth to be Delegate then he wouldn't be. As it stands, he is, therefore I support whatever system of government he supports. In the current instance it is autocratic. If he decided to institute an oligarchical system like many of the other feeders utilize, I would support that as well.

I hate to harp on a minor point but please note the two two lines I highlighted. The two ideas seem at odds.

I can appreciate an autocracy but I'm confused about it being conflated with a popular vote, that is, the Delegate endorsement list. The nations of TWP would not have a choice about Elegarth being Delegate, if he is indeed an autocrat.

Please point to any single nation within TWP that was forced to give its endorsement to Elegarth and I will happily concede the point.

[The Silver Sentinel]

You agreed with another nation that WPO in reference to myself and TWP meant Womens Presidents Organization. You did that, I didn't make that up. Considering the manner in which you have responded to me throughout this 'exchange' there is absolutely no reason why I would not take that as you presenting it as a perceived insult towards my masculinity. I find that laughable on many levels and simply called you on it. It wasn't a personal insult, it was an observation. If you honestly had no intention of utilizing that as an insult, and I find that very hard to believe, then I apologize.

I'm sorry but I must ask, are you intoxicated right now?

You agreed with another nation that WPO in reference to myself and TWP meant Womens Presidents Organization. You did that, I didn't make that up.

No I did not agree that the WPO was in reference to the Women's Presidents Organization. Like I said, it was friendly banter.

Considering the manner in which you have responded to me throughout this 'exchange' there is absolutely no reason why I would not take that as you presenting it as a perceived insult towards my masculinity.

You literally must be out of your mind if that is how you read that. I don't know where to begin, so I won't even try. If you believe that I was flat out insulting your masculinity, I suggest you report this transgression immediately in Moderation, because that would be a clear cut case of flaming, with a dose of trolling on the side.

It wasn't a personal insult, it was an observation.

Baloney. It was a well placed shot at an easy target. You probably didn't even have to use a scope for that snipe.

If you honestly had no intention of utilizing that as an insult, and I find that very hard to believe, then I apologize.

Yet you pretty much accuse me of trolling, and then apologize all in the same diatribe?

[That Called the Vlagh]

Ahh, the Women Presidents Organization. Gotcha.

I suppose that would be close enough.

Your definition of 'close enough' and mine must be different. You are now stating that you 'did not agree' but by most conventional views of the term 'close enough' it would seem that you did. Odd.

[The Silver Sentinel]

I suppose that would be close enough.

Your definition of 'close enough' and mine must be different. You are now stating that you 'did not agree' but by most conventional views of the term 'close enough' it would seem that you did. Odd.

Are you going out of your way to be obtuse for a particular purpose, or are you simply trying to bait a flame out of me? It was friendly banter. Like I said there is a point where one can be technically correct, and yet still totally wrong all at the same time.

Now can we get back to the actual discussion at hand?

[That Called the Vlagh]

Your definition of 'close enough' and mine must be different. You are now stating that you 'did not agree' but by most conventional views of the term 'close enough' it would seem that you did. Odd.

Are you going out of your way to be obtuse for a particular purpose, or are you simply trying to bait a flame out of me? It was friendly banter. Like I said there is a point where one can be technically correct, and yet still totally wrong all at the same time.

Now can we get back to the actual discussion at hand?

Certainly.

Let's get back to where you provide substantive support for your position that TWP is now a puppet region of the Pacific.

Begin...

[Soviet El Paso]

I hate to harp on a minor point but please note the two two lines I highlighted. The two ideas seem at odds.

I can appreciate an autocracy but I'm confused about it being conflated with a popular vote, that is, the Delegate endorsement list. The nations of TWP would not have a choice about Elegarth being Delegate, if he is indeed an autocrat.

Please point to any single nation within TWP that was forced to give its endorsement to Elegarth and I will happily concede the point.

Can you point to a nation that was not banjected for gathering endorsments above the stated cap? I will concede that a government needs laws, such as endorsement caps, in order to maintain their own viability. But so far the arguments for maintaining the current government have been somewhat confusing. Admittedly that is my own problem, but I'm requesting a clarification.

The nations endorsing Elegarth have no choice if no one else is allowed to gather endorsements in the range of the Delegate.

BTW, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I assume that you are a private citizen, and no longer part of the active TWP government?

[That Called the Vlagh]

Please point to any single nation within TWP that was forced to give its endorsement to Elegarth and I will happily concede the point.

Can you point to a nation that was not banjected for gathering endorsments above the stated cap? I will concede that a government needs laws, such as endorsement caps, in order to maintain their own viability. But so far the arguments for maintaining the current government have been somewhat confusing. Admittedly that is my own problem, but I'm requesting a clarification.

The nations endorsing Elegarth have no choice if no one else is allowed to gather endorsements in the range of the Delegate.

BTW, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I assume that you are a private citizen, and no longer part of the active TWP government?

If you can concede the need for a cap then no evidence to support someone breaking it should be necessary as that defeats the whole purpose of said cap.

That said, there are means by which exceptions to the endorsement cap can be gained and have been granted in the past. There is information on this in this dispatch posted over two years ago: http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=218074

You might also note that Elegarth has been Delegate for 110 days, so it is hardly a good argument that he has been a perpetual dictator and that change does not occur in the Delegacy of TWP. Just a few months ago the OP of this very thread participated in a coup in the region and is thus banned from the offsite community (which I personally suspect has some bearing on the nature and purpose of this topic).

EDIT: You are correct, I am not a member of TWP's government in any way, shape, or form.

[The Silver Sentinel]

BTW, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I assume that you are a private citizen, and no longer part of the active TWP government?

He is the delegate of the Pacific, and the Emperor of The New Pacific Order a fascist regime that has used whatever means it needs to, to stay on power in the Pacific. The current Delegate of The West Pacific happens to be a member of The Imperial Senate, which is the official ruling body of the New Pacific Order.

[That Called the Vlagh]

BTW, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I assume that you are a private citizen, and no longer part of the active TWP government?

He is the delegate of the Pacific, and the Emperor of The New Pacific Order a fascist regime that has used whatever means it needs to, to stay on power in the Pacific. The current Delegate of The West Pacific happens to be a member of The Imperial Senate, which is the official ruling body of the New Pacific Order.

I'm fairly certain that this nation is not Delegate of the Pacific. It isn't even in the World Assembly.

Also, Elegarth is not part of the Pacific Senate. Why do you keep saying that when it is actually completely wrong and untrue?

[ROM]

He is the delegate of the Pacific, and the Emperor of The New Pacific Order a fascist regime that has used whatever means it needs to, to stay on power in the Pacific. The current Delegate of The West Pacific happens to be a member of The Imperial Senate, which is the official ruling body of the New Pacific Order.

I'm fairly certain that this nation is not Delegate of the Pacific. It isn't even in the World Assembly.

Also, Elegarth is not part of the Pacific Senate. Why do you keep saying that when it is actually completely wrong and untrue?

Why are you acting as though this nation and Pierconium are separate entities? As far as I'm concerned, they are one and the same, as you are behind both.

[That Called the Vlagh]

I'm fairly certain that this nation is not Delegate of the Pacific. It isn't even in the World Assembly.

Also, Elegarth is not part of the Pacific Senate. Why do you keep saying that when it is actually completely wrong and untrue?

Why are you acting as though this nation and Pierconium are separate entities? As far as I'm concerned, they are one and the same, as you are behind both.

When I begin to worry about what you are concerned with in regards to my style of play I will be sure to let you know.

[The Silver Sentinel]

I'm fairly certain that this nation is not Delegate of the Pacific. It isn't even in the World Assembly.

And the Sun is made of cheese as well.... Everyone knows who you are Ivan, so drop the pretense okay?

Also, Elegarth is not part of the Pacific Senate. Why do you keep saying that when it is actually completely wrong and untrue?

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p26085602
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p26085618

When I begin to worry about what you are concerned with in regards to my style of play I will be sure to let you know.

People don't "roleplay" in Gameplay Ivan, and you should know that. Also thank you for publicly confirming that you are Pierconium, so I don't have to go dig up more links.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Why are you acting as though this nation and Pierconium are separate entities? As far as I'm concerned, they are one and the same, as you are behind both.

When I begin to worry about what you are concerned with in regards to my style of play I will be sure to let you know.

Your style of play may have been respected a decade ago, but nobody is buying it these days. You're expected to take responsibility for all your actions across all Gameplay personas no matter how pitifully you insist on separating them. You can not care about this all you want, but I'm just telling you that nobody respects it anymore.

[That Called the Vlagh]

I'm fairly certain that this nation is not Delegate of the Pacific. It isn't even in the World Assembly.

And the Sun is made of cheese as well.... Everyone knows who you are Ivan, so drop the pretense okay?

Also, Elegarth is not part of the Pacific Senate. Why do you keep saying that when it is actually completely wrong and untrue?

viewtopic.php?p=26085602#p26085602
viewtopic.php?p=26085618#p26085618

People don't "roleplay" in Gameplay Ivan, and you should know that. Also thank you for publicly confirming that you are Pierconium, so I don't have to go dig up more links.

I never deny factual OOC information, and I'm not RPing. I simply view the political interactions of the various regions I choose to involve myself with separately.

While it may not be popular in the current climate, some people still prefer duality. I do not believe this is the place to discuss it, especially since you recently posted that we should get back on topic - how is that substantive support coming along by the way?

I'm not sure what you hoped to 'prove' with those links. As far as I am aware, Elegarth resigned from the Pacific Senate some time ago. He is not listed on the moderating team for the Pacific offsite.

[That Called the Vlagh]

When I begin to worry about what you are concerned with in regards to my style of play I will be sure to let you know.

Your style of play may have been respected a decade ago, but nobody is buying it these days. You're expected to take responsibility for all your actions across all Gameplay personas no matter how pitifully you insist on separating them. You can not care about this all you want, but I'm just telling you that nobody respects it anymore.

I believe you are incorrect about a few things. I never deny responsibility for anything that I do, I just choose to acknowledge them from the perspective of the various nations with which they are associated.

I have noticed you responding to me quite often of late, should I take your acrimony as an indication of DEN's political position on the Pacific? You know, since we can't separate these days...

[Ambroscus Koth]

Your style of play may have been respected a decade ago, but nobody is buying it these days. You're expected to take responsibility for all your actions across all Gameplay personas no matter how pitifully you insist on separating them. You can not care about this all you want, but I'm just telling you that nobody respects it anymore.

I believe you are incorrect about a few things. I never deny responsibility for anything that I do, I just choose to acknowledge them from the perspective of the various nations with which they are associated.

I have noticed you responding to me quite often of late, should I take your acrimony as an indication of DEN's political position on the Pacific? You know, since we can't separate these days...

I don't think I have any kind of authority in DEN anymore, so if you try to make that connection that's on you, have fun. However, that's missing the point entirely.

You state in this thread that you can't have Pacific bias as Vlagh because "this nation isn't even in the WA, let alone delegate of the Pacific!" or whatever. Come off it, everyone knows that's insincere.

[The Silver Sentinel]

I have noticed you responding to me quite often of late, should I take your acrimony as an indication of DEN's political position on the Pacific? You know, since we can't separate these days...

Holy fuck.... That was really out of line this time. Koth was trying to provide some helpful advice, and you do a drive by on him?