The West Pacific Union

[Cormactopia II]

The few people still active on the regional forum of the West Pacific have voted to dissolve the Voice, the legislature of the Union of the West Pacific. In its place, Delegate Elegarth has created a government that is entirely appointed by the Delegate, who is also always appointed by the outgoing Delegate. One wonders why natives of the West Pacific bothered to resist the DEN coup a few months ago, only to have the last vestiges of democracy replaced by an autocratic system even less liberal and democratic than that of the New Pacific Order. DEN couldn't possibly have done worse.

I've brought this up for discussion because if this were any other Feeder, there would be two or three threads about it. There would be military campaigns for or against. Has anyone outside TWP even noticed that this happened in TWP though? How many people inside TWP have noticed? One wonders how long the oligarchy in TWP is going to keep it mired in this state of inactivity and irrelevance. It's shameful to see a Feeder in this condition, the sandbox of quasi-retired veterans who really should hold democratic elections and pass the torch. What are you even holding onto, at this point?

[Belschaft]

There's a The West Pacific? Are you sure?

....

In all seriousness, how is this any different to how TWP has been governed for the last decade?

[Cormactopia II]

There's a The West Pacific? Are you sure?

....

In all seriousness, how is this any different to how TWP has been governed for the last decade?

They have at least maintained a legislature on their regional forum, and at times have elected the forum government. They have maintained that the Delegate does not control the forum community, and vice versa. Now the legislature is dissolved, the government is appointed by the Delegate, and as a result, the Delegate has absolute autocratic control over both the in-game region and the forum community.

While that may not seem like a big difference, it really is: There isn't even the pretense of any kind of democracy or separation of powers anymore. Given Elegarth's origins in the New Pacific Order, this is hardly a surprise, but it still seems noteworthy.

[Lady Anastasia]

One wonders why natives of the West Pacific bothered to resist the DEN coup a few months ago, only to have the last vestiges of democracy replaced by an autocratic system even less liberal and democratic than that of the New Pacific Order. DEN couldn't possibly have done worse.

I recall a quote along the lines of "often a people prefer a native tyrant to a government imposed on them by outsiders". For what it's worth, I don't feel that Elegarth in this case is a tyrant, but use this idea to illustrate that regions often resist outside forces trying to impose their values or governing structures onto them. Further, I personally have little qualms in this case, given that the Union did dissolve itself freely, that the culture of the region is relatively in tune to the changes that have been made, and that Elegarth is not handing over the region to a foreign force like URAP did.

Activity is an issue in TWP, there is no doubt about that. I'm hopeful that a significant change made can help entice people (including me, a freely-admitting inactive resident) to participate. If these changes do not, I'm sure that they will be re-evaluated.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Why am I not surprised that it's already been implied that The Pacific had a hand in this?

[Cormactopia II]

I recall a quote along the lines of "often a people prefer a native tyrant to a government imposed on them by outsiders". For what it's worth, I don't feel that Elegarth in this case is a tyrant, but use this idea to illustrate that regions often resist outside forces trying to impose their values or governing structures onto them. Further, I personally have little qualms in this case, given that the Union did dissolve itself freely, that the culture of the region is relatively in tune to the changes that have been made, and that Elegarth is not handing over the region to a foreign force like URAP did.

Well, I don't have the same qualms I would have about a coup. Everything that's happened here seems legitimate and has the consent of the community, or what's left of a community, at any rate. My concern is that the West Pacific is an inactive mess and the "solution" they always seem to pursue is to give the Delegate even more power and call it a day. Autocracy isn't working in TWP; perhaps they should pursue democracy as have three of the four other Feeders, all of which are more active and functional than TWP.

Activity is an issue in TWP, there is no doubt about that. I'm hopeful that a significant change made can help entice people (including me, a freely-admitting inactive resident) to participate. If these changes do not, I'm sure that they will be re-evaluated.

If more autocracy actually solves the activity problem on anything but a short-term basis, I'll be very surprised. Especially since this particular autocrat hasn't demonstrated any higher an activity level than TWP's old guard.

Why am I not surprised that it's already been implied that The Pacific had a hand in this?

I didn't mean to imply that, though I will note that Ivan was the one who proposed dissolution of the legislature and vesting full power in the Delegate's hands in the first place -- but that was quite some time ago, he was rejected at the time, and he did not push for this vote.

My point is that, having his origin in the New Pacific Order, it seems that Elegarth's first instinct is toward greater autocracy. It's preventing him from seeing that a different approach is probably needed here. TWP needs to be thoroughly democratized, which will attract the interest of its own native community, as well as attracting newcomers from elsewhere. That's what currently works for the other Feeders, The Pacific being an exception due to Ivan's high level of activity and old school ability to make autocracy functional and engaging for more than just himself, which Elegarth doesn't even come close to matching.

[Unibot III]

And who appoints the Delegate? Is it a People's Dictatorship (claim popular sovereignty, ban competition, self-appoint successors)? Or does the outgoing legislature appoint the delegate's successor?

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

*yawns*

Found a new windmill to tilt at Cormac? Well everyone has to have a hobby I suppose. Hope it turns out better than the last one.

[Cormactopia II]

*yawns*

Found a new windmill to tilt at Cormac? Well everyone has to have a hobby I suppose. Hope it turns out better than the last one.

I brought up an at least slightly interesting topic for discussion from a region that is usually devoid of anything interesting, in a game that is increasingly devoid of anything interesting. It would be nice if you would discuss that instead of baiting me.

I would think the West Pacific would be glad someone outside TWP remembers it exists.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

*yawns*

Found a new windmill to tilt at Cormac? Well everyone has to have a hobby I suppose. Hope it turns out better than the last one.

I brought up an at least slightly interesting topic for discussion from a region that is usually devoid of anything interesting, in a game that is increasingly devoid of anything interesting. It would be nice if you would discuss that instead of baiting me.

I would think the West Pacific would be glad someone outside TWP remembers it exists.

There's very little point in debating with you Cormac. Your argument will run along the lines "NPO takeover because Elegarth and Ivan". Various luminaries will add their two cents worth, nod sagely and generally harrumph.

Then a new Gameplay squirrel will run by and you will be off chasing that.

So let's just short circuit the process eh?

[Cormactopia II]

There's very little point in debating with you Cormac. Your argument will run along the lines "NPO takeover because Elegarth and Ivan". Various luminaries will add their two cents worth, nod sagely and generally harrumph.

I haven't once argued that this is an NPO takeover. The state of affairs in the West Pacific predates Elegarth, though it's now only worsening instead of improving under his Delegacy, and nobody is ultimately at fault for it except the so-called "Guardians" of the West Pacific.

Then a new Gameplay squirrel will run by and you will be off chasing that.

I'm flighty because I bore easily. Don't challenge me to give TWP my full attention.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I'm flighty because I bore easily. Don't challenge me to give TWP my full attention.

I'm sure we can wait five minutes.

[Cormactopia II]

I'm flighty because I bore easily. Don't challenge me to give TWP my full attention.

I'm sure we can wait five minutes.

Challenge accepted, then.

[The Silver Sentinel]

Why am I not surprised that it's already been implied that The Pacific had a hand in this?

I didn't mean to imply that

Ok, I will. Given that Ivan is still a member of the Imperial Senate, should any of this really be a surprise? And given the fact that the TWPAF (or whatever it is) has since annexed Atlantic, there is a real probability TWP could become even more of a threat to the international community than the Pacific.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

Strangely, I can't bring myself to have a greater reaction other than a "what", regarding TWP as a threat to the interregional community. Conversely, suggesting The Pacific is one is... *sigh*.

I don't believe that there is any single, concentrated threat to the interregional community at large unless we suddenly have a group of forum destroyers active in NS again.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

So we're a region usually devoid of anything interesting or we're more of a threat to the international community than the Pacific. Which is it?

You really should get your stories straight.

[Big Bad Badger]

So we're a region usually devoid of anything interesting or we're more of a threat to the international community than the Pacific. Which is it?

You really should get your stories straight.

I think we should roll with "threat to the international community".

A spectre is born!

[Wickedly evil people]

his has been part of my master plan since 2004 when I created my West Pacific puppet at Black Adder's behest.

Only now have we found a credible puppet to take the reigns and rapidly gain influence.

Franco and Unlimited would be proud of our long term sleeper op.

[Elegarth]

Oh hi there Cormac.

I'm such an evil dictator that... ugh, I won't bother.

Oh hi there Cormac!

[Icecream Princess]

Am I the only one who thinks The West Pacific Union sounds more like a bank than a region? xD

[We Are Not the NSA]

Am I the only one who thinks The West Pacific Union sounds more like a bank than a region? xD

Until I noticed that Cormac was the OP, I thought this was a recruitment thread for some sort of GCR spin off region.

If someone from TWP wouldn't mind answering, is the current version of the Union going to be permanent, or is it just a transitional government until something better is worked out? After reading the new gov't description, it just doesn't feel like a lasting model to govern by.

[Cormactopia II]

If someone from TWP wouldn't mind answering, is the current version of the Union going to be permanent, or is it just a transitional government until something better is worked out? After reading the new gov't description, it just doesn't feel like a lasting model to govern by.

I'm not sure they actually answer questions or criticisms, I think they just mock people like a bad parody of Mean Girls.

[Icecream Princess]

If someone from TWP wouldn't mind answering, is the current version of the Union going to be permanent, or is it just a transitional government until something better is worked out? After reading the new gov't description, it just doesn't feel like a lasting model to govern by.

I'm not sure they actually answer questions or criticisms, I think they just mock people like a bad parody of Mean Girls.

Mean girls <3

Now I will definitely join, thank you!

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

I'm not sure they actually answer questions or criticisms, I think they just mock people like a bad parody of Mean Girls.

Well, let's face it there's plenty here to mock. And if it appeared we were taking you seriously it might encourage you.

If someone from TWP wouldn't mind answering, is the current version of the Union going to be permanent, or is it just a transitional government until something better is worked out? After reading the new gov't description, it just doesn't feel like a lasting model to govern by.

Fair question, to which the answer is at the moment we don't know. Though when I think about it it's a reasonable management structure.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Pretty pathetic that the TWP response to this thread is basically just making fun of Cormac. Even more pathetic that nobody else seems to care.