The Miniluv Messenger: TEP Liberated!

[Cormac Stark]

Sure, Feederites may have it easier than those in the sinkers. But to say that McM or TNP don't put in huge amounts of effort at engaging nations and generating activity is disingenuous.

Just to be super clear, this isn't what I'm saying. I know TNP puts a lot of work into engagement with the in-game region, recruitment onto the forums, mentoring after they get there, etc., etc. They have an entire ministry dedicated to it, and it's probably one of the most active and thriving ministries TNP has. So if I gave the impression that I was saying they don't do a lot of work, that definitely wasn't what I meant to be saying. I will point out, however, that a Sinker couldn't currently have a thriving ministry like this because they don't have nearly the number of people needed to sustain it, which goes back to the fundamental differences between Feeders and Sinkers that critics like McMasterdonia are ignoring.

What I'm saying is that however much work Feeders do, it pales in comparison to the work that a Sinker government would have to do to achieve what TNP would consider, for its own region, the minimum standard of activity. That level of work, in turn, pales in comparison to the level of work required for UCRs to create regions that are at all active, or even populated.

I think what I'm saying is this: Feederites complaining about recruitment from Feeders are sounding a lot like billionaires complaining about progressive taxation to fund social welfare programs. No matter how hard the billionaire worked for his billions, complaining about benefits for the less fortunate just seems petty. Bringing this analogy back to gameplay terms, Feeders are already much more fortunate than other regions, and recruitment isn't going to cost Feeders anything real in terms of the activity bonanza they enjoy. Complaining about it, particularly in the way McMasterdonia has in this thread, just seems petty. You're the world's largest and most active regions, so please, don't play the victims.

[Where now]

I see, apologies for misinterpreting

I will point out, however, that a Sinker couldn't currently have a thriving ministry like this because they don't have nearly the number of people needed to sustain it, which goes back to the fundamental differences between Feeders and Sinkers that critics like McMasterdonia are ignoring.

In my experience recruitment/retention has a rather snowballing effect: activity brings more new nations, which brings more activity and so on. The hardest part is starting. Now, I don't really care whether GCRs recruit from each other or not, however a lot of the TGs TNP sent out are scripted. I'm sure people in the sinkers could either create their own scripts; modify a public recruitment script; or request access to scripts created by TNP or other regions. There are also of course stamps, and the free region-wide TGs. Except for creating a script, these are relatively time cheap.

It may not have the same impact recruiting from the Feeders would have (which would still require a script, people, or stamps), however if it was only even 20% as effective as TNP's policies (over several months) that's still 100 nations, and 20 WAs. A very solid foundation upon which to build up a bigger platform for a larger - and perhaps more manual - recruitment/retention ministry.

More generally, you get out what you put in. I think someone else mentioned earlier that if the sinkers are unwilling or unable to put a large effort into recruiting, then it won't have a big impact and won't solve their problems.

[Pierconium]

What I'm saying is that however much work Feeders do, it pales in comparison to the work that a Sinker government would have to do to achieve what TNP would consider, for its own region, the minimum standard of activity. That level of work, in turn, pales in comparison to the level of work required for UCRs to create regions that are at all active, or even populated.

Outside of the recruiting aspect, I am not so sure how accurate this is. UCRs are populated by nations which choose to make the effort to be there, meaning that (again outside the effort of recruiting them to the region in the first place) they are inherently more invested in being active there.

[McMasterdonia]

Sure, Feederites may have it easier than those in the sinkers. But to say that McM or TNP don't put in huge amounts of effort at engaging nations and generating activity is disingenuous.

Just to be super clear, this isn't what I'm saying. I know TNP puts a lot of work into engagement with the in-game region, recruitment onto the forums, mentoring after they get there, etc., etc. They have an entire ministry dedicated to it, and it's probably one of the most active and thriving ministries TNP has. So if I gave the impression that I was saying they don't do a lot of work, that definitely wasn't what I meant to be saying. I will point out, however, that a Sinker couldn't currently have a thriving ministry like this because they don't have nearly the number of people needed to sustain it, which goes back to the fundamental differences between Feeders and Sinkers that critics like McMasterdonia are ignoring.

What I'm saying is that however much work Feeders do, it pales in comparison to the work that a Sinker government would have to do to achieve what TNP would consider, for its own region, the minimum standard of activity. That level of work, in turn, pales in comparison to the level of work required for UCRs to create regions that are at all active, or even populated.

I think what I'm saying is this: Feederites complaining about recruitment from Feeders are sounding a lot like billionaires complaining about progressive taxation to fund social welfare programs. No matter how hard the billionaire worked for his billions, complaining about benefits for the less fortunate just seems petty. Bringing this analogy back to gameplay terms, Feeders are already much more fortunate than other regions, and recruitment isn't going to cost Feeders anything real in terms of the activity bonanza they enjoy. Complaining about it, particularly in the way McMasterdonia has in this thread, just seems petty. You're the world's largest and most active regions, so please, don't play the victims.

Complaining, sure. I don't think it was petty though, just a strong difference of opinion.

My opinion is that a insignificant approach to internal recruitment will achieve insignificant results. Even if I accept that external recruitment is part of the solution, I think a hell of a lot more can be done to get more out of the communities that want to recruit, and I think GCRs can work together on how best to do it. My view is that I have not seen a sinker government roll out such a comprehensive/significant internal recruitment scheme like the one we use (as it works). Of course there are differences, but I think it would benefit them greatly if they were to roll out a similar scheme, or certainly to trial it to see how it goes within the mechanics of a sinker region. Even if the manual tg aspect was not addressed, with a focus on scripting, dispatches, and the RMB. The scheme won't necessarily see the same levels of forum activity as TNP gets, neither would external recruitment, but I am confident that a comprehensive scheme would see an improvement.

Hopefully in future we will see more cooperation on that front, as no region can exist in isolation, especially in the GCRs case - where special relationships and unwritten rules (for better or worse) do exist.

Your article provoked plenty of discussion and it is the first article in a long time that I've felt the need to comment on in great deal Good thing or not? Depends on the reader, I guess.

ways you have tried internal recruitment

Eh? Think we have done all the below:
• Maintained a relatively active forum and regional government, despite our difficulties.
• Kept up on endorsements, and send out telegrams to the nations in the region.
• Set up a welcome telegram*, written and pinned dispatches
• Helped keep the RMB active, including posting polls.
• Written up our WFE so people know where to go.

Really the next steps are:
• Monthly telegram updates, perhaps discussing positions and activities.
• Sending personal telegrams to nations, encouraging them to get on the forum.
• Posting the Lazarene Gazette in dispatches.
• Improving on our forum, and adding more activities.
• Getting ready for a possible forum slow-down due to the December holidays.

*I know its working, as I have got a telegram recently thanking me for the welcome.

Thanks for the answer, NR. I think that is a great start, but again, I think with added infrastructure you could see a far greater improvement in the results. I think GCRs can/should communicate and share what ideas work for us, and how to implement them - especially for matters that can be carried out by others other than yourself as Delegate. This offer was made in the past under Delegate r3n, and I hope that we can see greater cooperation on this area between TNP and Lazarus in future.

[Solorni]

First of all, call me old fashioned, but I'm opposed to this and could see this leading to resentment should some regions be better at this than others. It'll be a weird amount of work, recruiting and potentially buying stamps that I feel are unnecessary as the focus should be on internal integration or recruitment. Of course, Balder will be forced to participate if mass recruitment becomes the case to ensure competitive balance.

The Great Case for Recruitment that strangely no one is making

There is in my opinion, a strong case for recruitment that I don't believe anyone has made. Which is that as a whole cross recruitment would be competing with UCRs (recruitment) rather than with the GCR (welcoming) they are recruiting from. It's possible that mass recruitment would strengthen all GCRs at the potential expense of UCRs in general. After all, the competition is with nations who are going to leave anyway. Having said that, I prefer the status quo far more.

[Kazmr]

First of all, call me old fashioned, but I'm opposed to this and could see this leading to resentment should some regions be better at this than others. It'll be a weird amount of work, recruiting and potentially buying stamps that I feel are unnecessary as the focus should be on internal integration or recruitment. Of course, Balder will be forced to participate if mass recruitment becomes the case to ensure competitive balance.

The Great Case for Recruitment that strangely no one is making

There is in my opinion, a strong case for recruitment that I don't believe anyone has made. Which is that as a whole cross recruitment would be competing with UCRs (recruitment) rather than with the GCR (welcoming) they are recruiting from. It's possible that mass recruitment would strengthen all GCRs at the potential expense of UCRs in general. After all, the competition is with nations who are going to leave anyway. Having said that, I prefer the status quo far more.

I did say this, several times, that cross recruitment benefits all GCRs since the liklihood of a nation in, say, TNP accepting a recruitment TG from, say, Lazarus or Balder when they would have otherwise ignored the other 20 recruitment TGs and stayed in The North Pacific is silly.

[Valrifell]

First of all, call me old fashioned, but I'm opposed to this and could see this leading to resentment should some regions be better at this than others. It'll be a weird amount of work, recruiting and potentially buying stamps that I feel are unnecessary as the focus should be on internal integration or recruitment. Of course, Balder will be forced to participate if mass recruitment becomes the case to ensure competitive balance.

The Great Case for Recruitment that strangely no one is making

There is in my opinion, a strong case for recruitment that I don't believe anyone has made. Which is that as a whole cross recruitment would be competing with UCRs (recruitment) rather than with the GCR (welcoming) they are recruiting from. It's possible that mass recruitment would strengthen all GCRs at the potential expense of UCRs in general. After all, the competition is with nations who are going to leave anyway. Having said that, I prefer the status quo far more.

Seriously, the GCRs need to be nerfed, not made anymore powerful. Stop giving them ideas!

[Solorni]

First of all, call me old fashioned, but I'm opposed to this and could see this leading to resentment should some regions be better at this than others. It'll be a weird amount of work, recruiting and potentially buying stamps that I feel are unnecessary as the focus should be on internal integration or recruitment. Of course, Balder will be forced to participate if mass recruitment becomes the case to ensure competitive balance.

The Great Case for Recruitment that strangely no one is making

There is in my opinion, a strong case for recruitment that I don't believe anyone has made. Which is that as a whole cross recruitment would be competing with UCRs (recruitment) rather than with the GCR (welcoming) they are recruiting from. It's possible that mass recruitment would strengthen all GCRs at the potential expense of UCRs in general. After all, the competition is with nations who are going to leave anyway. Having said that, I prefer the status quo far more.

Seriously, the GCRs need to be nerfed, not made anymore powerful. Stop giving them ideas!

Join us

You won't be a userite forever!

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

First of all, call me old fashioned, but I'm opposed to this and could see this leading to resentment should some regions be better at this than others. It'll be a weird amount of work, recruiting and potentially buying stamps that I feel are unnecessary as the focus should be on internal integration or recruitment. Of course, Balder will be forced to participate if mass recruitment becomes the case to ensure competitive balance.

The Great Case for Recruitment that strangely no one is making

There is in my opinion, a strong case for recruitment that I don't believe anyone has made. Which is that as a whole cross recruitment would be competing with UCRs (recruitment) rather than with the GCR (welcoming) they are recruiting from. It's possible that mass recruitment would strengthen all GCRs at the potential expense of UCRs in general. After all, the competition is with nations who are going to leave anyway. Having said that, I prefer the status quo far more.

Seriously, the GCRs need to be nerfed, not made anymore powerful. Stop giving them ideas!

We are the Game-Created Regions. Lower your passwords and surrender your recruitment telegrams. We will add your political and sociological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

[Shadoke]

No no nooooo! Not the GCR hivemind!
*faints*

[Canton Empire]

I'm positive that Lazarus had no malicious intent with the recruitment issue

[Lord Ravenclaw]

I'm positive that Lazarus had no malicious intent with the recruitment issue

They didn't, there wasn't any belief that they did. Just questions.

(Raven is too tired)

[Canton Empire]

I'm positive that Lazarus had no malicious intent with the recruitment issue

They didn't, there wasn't any belief that they did. Just questions.

(Raven is too tired)

The question should be , "how can all regions, not just feeders, benefit from the rise in the popularity of NS

[The Church of Satan]

Never mind that I'm a citizen of Lazarus. I find myself in favor of Lazarus recruiting from the Feeders. As Cormac pointed out, the Feeders get a constant plethora of new players. Generally new players ask on the RMB of whatever Feeder they're founded in on what to do and where to go, which of course means they'll be directed to that specific Feeder's forum. Sinkers on the other hand doesn't get that influx of new players. I wouldn't be surprised if a good portion of refounded nations in Sinkers were already blocking recruitment telegrams when they came back. Additionally, chances are, refounded nations already know where they'll go and what they'll do (or at least some of them will) which puts Sinkers at a huge disadvantage. Personally, I don't feel Feeders have any valid reason to be upset with Sinker recruitment, given their obvious advantages over their Sinker counterparts. Cormac's analogy sums it up pretty well (and kinda makes me giggle).

[New Rogernomics]

Thanks for the answer, NR. I think that is a great start, but again, I think with added infrastructure you could see a far greater improvement in the results. I think GCRs can/should communicate and share what ideas work for us, and how to implement them - especially for matters that can be carried out by others other than yourself as Delegate. This offer was made in the past under Delegate r3n, and I hope that we can see greater cooperation on this area between TNP and Lazarus in future.

Just added a welcome dispatch, inspired a bit by TNPs.

[The Miniluv Messenger]

Big Brother is watching Gameplay

---

Finally, Action: Unibot Banned in The Rejected Realms

Sedgistan: "[T]he admins of this forum have a duty to protect the community here."

By Cormac Skollvaldr

---

THE GREYMARSHES - The Miniluv Messenger is able to confirm that Unibot, former Delegate of The Rejected Realms, has been indefinitely banned from the off-site forum and internet relay chat (IRC) channel of The Rejected Realms. The Messenger has obtained the following statement from Sedgistan, a TRR forum administrator and IRC channel operator, posted in the private subforum of the TRR Assembly:

As people may be aware, there have been accusations regarding Unibot's conduct towards female NSers, specifically that he's sexually harassed a number of them over the past few years. I've received evidence that shows that this is the case. Unibot has contributed an incredible amount to the region, but the admins of this forum have a duty to protect the community here. As such, we've taken the decision to ban him indefinitely from both the forum and the IRC channel.

He's been informed of this decision, and has accepted it in good grace. Him being banned is not a secret, but we're not looking to make a big song and dance about it either.

If you have any questions, do please feel free to ask them.

This ban in The Rejected Realms calls into question Unibot's participation in other NationStates off-site communities. He remains a citizen of The South Pacific, where he previously served as Chair of the Assembly as well as in other offices. Unibot was last active on the TSP forum three days ago, though his last post was in June. Previously the Chief of the Band of the United Defenders League, Unibot remains a Guardian and forum administrator on the UDL forum, though he has not been active on that forum since July. He has forum accounts on many other off-site forums for prior diplomatic purposes as well and has frequented many NationStates related IRC channels over the years.

Over the past several months, serious allegations of sexual harassment have arisen against Unibot, though his accusers have emphasized that this alleged behavior has taken place off-site and is not subject to action by NationStates administrators and moderators. Several players have called for action to be taken against Unibot by off-site communities in which he has been involved, most prominently The Rejected Realms.

It should be noted that Sedgistan and CrazyGirl, the root administrator of the TRR off-site forum, are both NationStates game moderators but were not acting in their capacity as game moderators in making this decision.

Correction: The Miniluv Messenger erroneously reported that Unibot remains a citizen of The South Pacific, but he has lost citizenship due to inactivity. We regret and apologize for the error.

[Ambrella]

I don't know all the details of the accusations against Unibot, but I know enough to see that this is clearly good news. I hope other regions will follow suit.

[The Miniluv Messenger]

Correction: The Miniluv Messenger erroneously reported that Unibot remains a citizen of The South Pacific, but he has lost citizenship due to inactivity. We regret and apologize for the error.

[Shadoke]

Good to see this

[Marselesk]

Nice.

[Misley]

It seems utterly ridiculous to me that NationStates game moderators and site administration cannot (or, in the case of site administration: choose not to) act to remove poisonous members of the community from this website just because they have been careful to keep their transgressions off-site.

It is good that player communities are stepping up to finally do something about it, but this should not be a matter that is left as the responsibility of each individual community.

[Stalker Queen]

For the years that Unibot's been active, it's taken years to get him banned for something that, in its severity, would have gotten him banned a long time ago from dozens of places I can name. Sexual harassment, whether the perpetrator is the mightiest heavyweight or the lowliest pariah, should not be tolerated under any circumstances by anyone. But it is at least good that firm action finally has been taken at last, and better late than never.

[The Silver Sentinel]

It seems utterly ridiculous to me that NationStates game moderators and site administration cannot (or, in the case of site administration: choose not to) act to remove poisonous members of the community from this website just because they have been careful to keep their transgressions off-site.

It is good that player communities are stepping up to finally do something about it, but this should not be a matter that is left as the responsibility of each individual community.

According to you in #gameplay we should have a strong politburo, KGBesque security, gulags and firing squads for people like Unibot.

Either way, it is probably for the best, and it is a positive sign that off-site communities will take the appropriate actions when necessary.

[Misley]

It seems utterly ridiculous to me that NationStates game moderators and site administration cannot (or, in the case of site administration: choose not to) act to remove poisonous members of the community from this website just because they have been careful to keep their transgressions off-site.

It is good that player communities are stepping up to finally do something about it, but this should not be a matter that is left as the responsibility of each individual community.

According to you in #gameplay we should have a strong politburo, KGBesque security, gulags and firing squads for people like Unibot.

https://youtu.be/ZjibEkDoXQc?t=18

And there's a big difference between tongue-in-cheek suggestions of establishing a politburo and removing a serial sexual harasser from the site, Chester.

[The Silver Sentinel]

According to you in #gameplay we should have a strong politburo, KGBesque security, gulags and firing squads for people like Unibot.

https://youtu.be/ZjibEkDoXQc?t=18

And there's a big difference between tongue-in-cheek suggestions of establishing a politburo and removing a serial sexual harasser from the site, Chester.

With all the swearing you were doing about it, it didn't seem very tongue in cheek. The fact that people started ignoring your comments says boatloads.