Alternative History in NS

[Zaolat]

The more things change in Lazarus, the more they stay exactly the same.

Yeah, I guess the only difference really is who is banned and who dislikes the regime but it appear that Laz could simply be identical to how it was previously.

What if Todd hadn't gone to TEP?

No, the question would be what if Todd hadn't sacked San Francisco Bay Area?

[Solorni]

But if he didn't go to TEP, SFBA may never have been given back

EDIT: Actually would Todd have won his election without sacking SFBA, else he wouldn't have had that chip to play...

[Benjamin Henrikson]

Had I not met Leningrad, who knows where I would be.

Or if I had, and joined Lazarus, would I be a fenda or not? They had me almost convinced

[Todd McCloud]

Yeah, I guess the only difference really is who is banned and who dislikes the regime but it appear that Laz could simply be identical to how it was previously.

What if Todd hadn't gone to TEP?

No, the question would be what if Todd hadn't sacked San Francisco Bay Area?

If I hadn't sacked it, someone eventually would have. SFBA was, at one point, the bane of all raiders. Heck, at some points I'd rank them higher than TITO or FRA. Their problem was their founder wasn't active or would just die off. I'd say they've got a pretty solid founder these days though.

SFBA and other high impact factor raids actually hurt me initially, I think. The first feeder I joined was TSP, and some defenders followed me there, lol. I then went to TEP, then TRR, then back to TEP again. I think what happened with TEP is they just didn't care that I was a raider at one point. Running against two legit NSers who were more adapt to RPing than gameplay might have helped a bit as well. Not that they weren't good - on the contrary, they were and are good players, but I had a lil more face time, I guess. The delegate commercials helped a lot too.

Which leads me to TEP. Had I not run, it would've come down to Dannistaan (who helped fight the Empire) and a nation named Warre (who was kind of playing both sides IIRC). I think the next guy to run after that was Dyr Nasad. Don't know what TEP would've turned into, but I'm almost certain it'd be different!

[Pestarzt the Traveller]

From a personal perspective, I've always wondered what would have happened if I had stuck with the NPO in 2013.

You and I would likely be very good friends.

1. What if Lux's Balder coup was carried out and successful?

If you had stayed with the NPO, a loooooooooot of things would have been different.

Gaspo. SovCon. Milograd in The Pacific. Gatesville. TSP coup. Imperium coup. Everything thereafter.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I'm curious what would've happened if I'd never couped TSP, as it was the resultant fall-out within the FRA that led to Unibot leaving to found the UDL. The UDL launched a lot of gameplayers' careers, and also impacted on the political landscape of the GCRs.

I would never have gotten involved in gameplay and would probably have either stayed exclusively in the GA or left the game entirely.

[Corvus Corax]

I'm curious what would've happened if I'd never couped TSP, as it was the resultant fall-out within the FRA that led to Unibot leaving to found the UDL. The UDL launched a lot of gameplayers' careers, and also impacted on the political landscape of the GCRs.

I would never have gotten involved in gameplay and would probably have either stayed exclusively in the GA or left the game entirely.

The UDL and Mr. Senpai are the very reason I become a raider and I will play my cards until to the dead man's hand what ever it will be and what ever it takes.

I'm in dept to Mr. Senpai.

[Common-Sense Politics]

...plus Earth and Oliver who joined TRR after being kicked out of Europeia...

That's not what happened. Earth and Oliver left out of a combination of frustration and personal interest in a very turbulent period in Europeian history. Many people were very much angry and/or hurt by the rhetoric and actions that followed their exit and there was a great deal of venom from each side. Maybe they didn't want to come back and maybe we didn't want them back but nobody was ever removed (forcibly or otherwise) to my recollection.

[Shizensky]

I see some of the names and events and wonder what role I could have played to change things. The RIA was the first home for Gaspo and Falconias. Our short stint with the ADN introduced Gaspo to them, and our departure made him feel forced to choose them over us. This opened him up to the bigger world and he eventually found himself around the GCRs. Falc stuck around, but after the forums were destroyed he drifted off and went his own way with his own regions and activity within the FRA.

Outside of that we haven't had a lot of 'important' people get away from the RIA. They get to be our claims to fame, and from what I hear through the grapevine they are pretty controversial claims.

[Misley]

This would have an almost negligible impact on the wider Gameplay community, but I wonder what the leftist sphere would look like today if La Pasionaria hadn't been deleted, or if someone else had been Comrade WA Delegate of The Internationale at the time.

[RiderSyl]

If TBR's Ragnarok Arisen, A Million Voices, and Chain Reaction were still active raiders.

If a region more immoral than TBR and Nazi Europe combined had manifested itself in NS.

If Unibot and Halcones were still banned from joining the World Assembly.

If all of the Gameplay Summit's changes were already put in by now.

If these regions wouldn't have died:
DEN
The Brotherhood of Malice
The Ancient Empires of the World

[Ambroscus Koth]

Here's an underrated one: If Durk had never founded The Imperial Legion.

I probably never would have found out about raiding, and I definitely wouldn't have met people like Cormac and made good friends with the group from Exshaw who ended up founding Asgard. Without Asgard, I wouldn't have ever gotten Venico to play NationStates, which would mean that The Brotherhood of Malice and the OFO would have never existed.

Not to mention that Cormac probably would have ended up in a completely different place in the game, and he's by far a more influential player than myself.

[Chairman Wow]

If Unibot and Halcones were still banned from joining the World Assembly.

At minimum, there would be a different Delegate of The Rejected Realms. I don't even know what would have happened with the UDL, as Unibot's WA ban was well before his resignation as Chief of the Band and in that earlier period someone like Earth or Sovreignry may have been elected Chief instead of Mahaj -- assuming there had even been an election and Unibot hadn't just appointed a replacement, under those very different circumstances.

I can't really speak to what would be different if Halcones had remained WA banned because I don't know what impact he's had on TBR since then.

Edit: Blah, this is Cormac, unintentionally from a puppet. I assume the flag made that clear.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Honestly, I don't think Halcones would have changed a thing. He probably would have still stuck around and made the new tools, but I can't really speak for him in that regard. It probably would have had an effect, yes, especially if he was permabanned while Unibot wasn't.

[Ananke II]

If Norion hadn't lost the delegacy to Berhampore (or was it Lanier?). Would the same group of people have coalesced in TWP, leading to the Dominion, the Empire etc?

If Neutered Sputniks hadn't ordered everyone out of the Pacific, when a bug made Francos Spain lose the delegacy?

If Pope Hope hadn't joined ADN and become director?

I sometimes wonder if the Pixiedance mess in TNP could've been avoided if we'd handled things differently during Great Bight's coup.

[Communist Eraser]

If Topid never wrote 'Liberate Eastern Europe' and FRA and TITO would just let Czechmate kick everyone and refound, Eastern Europe would have been just a typical trophy region refound. And now one of the 1000s of dead founderless regions.

Instead, we got to see the the impressive show of Czechmate and his friends pretending to surrender to defenders, surrender to the rest of the region and over 9 months convince the region to elect him delegate again and tricked the rest of the Gameplay to repeal their liberation. All so he could re-found right after.

As Ballo later described it:

NS is a political game, so it's not intended to be always 'fair'. It's perfectly ok in NS to (politically, in-game) stab someone else in the back, use subterfuge, tell bold faced lies to manipulate (example: what Czech Mate did was impressively well-played), betray, etc...

Had defenders been successful the second time and refounded the region for the other natives, it would have probably stayed a roleplaying/chat region, and no one knows how it would have turned out 4 years later, today.

As it was, Czechmate's act of political bastardy became a major influence on my gameplay career. It's one of the rare occasions where an (ex)-native upstaged invaders, defenders, SCers, half his own region, all the gameplayers in the game - they all willingly believed it till he turned. I wouldn't of never been interested in him or Eastern Europe, or even the general seduction of Gameplay political drama if it wasn't for this incident.

Back to EE, Czechmate was originally just going keep EE as a trophy after he refounded and got his revenge on the rest of the region. But because I was so starstruck by him, wanting to build community even when it was a Stalinist trophy region, he was overcomed to give the region a 2nd beginning that still alive today. He slowly relaxed his restrictions and through the trust he had built with me, even after I stepped down he allowed the community to continue to flourish. In turn, his legacy had turned from a region greifer to a beloved but complicated founder whose acts is now considered to be what saved the region from invaders (at least until his present day CTE from the game.).

[Unibot III]

I'm curious what would've happened if I'd never couped TSP, as it was the resultant fall-out within the FRA that led to Unibot leaving to found the UDL. The UDL launched a lot of gameplayers' careers, and also impacted on the political landscape of the GCRs.

I would never have gotten involved in gameplay and would probably have either stayed exclusively in the GA or left the game entirely.

Similarly, Milograd was pulled into gameplay by TSP's coup and the UDL later. Same with Solm, and by extension, St George too. Quad. Lots of GCRs would be differently. Osiris, The South Pacific and Lazarus.

I would say the political environment we live in today is mostly a consequence of Sedge's coup. That marked the end of the Post-Influence decline and bounced us into a brave new world.

[The Blaatschapen]

I would never have gotten involved in gameplay and would probably have either stayed exclusively in the GA or left the game entirely.

Similarly, Milograd was pulled into gameplay by TSP's coup and the UDL later. Same with Solm, and by extension, St George too. Quad. Lots of GCRs would be differently. Osiris, The South Pacific and Lazarus.

I would say the political environment we live in today is mostly a consequence of Sedge's coup. That marked the end of the Post-Influence decline and bounced us into a brave new world.

As Andracantra once eloquently put it:

It's always sedge's fault.

[KaelThas Quilor]

If regions like Europeia, TNI, the LKE, etc, embraced the 'Raider Identity' that defenders claim they already really have at some point early in their development. Things would be different, for those regions and the wider-world, if they were actually Raider, rather than Independent or Imperialist.

[Belschaft]

I would never have gotten involved in gameplay and would probably have either stayed exclusively in the GA or left the game entirely.

Similarly, Milograd was pulled into gameplay by TSP's coup and the UDL later. Same with Solm, and by extension, St George too. Quad. Lots of GCRs would be differently. Osiris, The South Pacific and Lazarus.

I would say the political environment we live in today is mostly a consequence of Sedge's coup. That marked the end of the Post-Influence decline and bounced us into a brave new world.

I think that's a fair comment. Both the split in the FRA, leading to UDL, and the militarization of the GCR'S, leading to the rise of modern Independence, happened as a result of Sedge's coup.

[Corvus Corax]

A Basic requirement of "Alternative History" in NS is that you and your friends find a way out from GCR cabinets...

It is illusionary power particularly for those whom role in it all is only act like cannonfodder passive pilers for the greater benefits of Off-site forum landlords.

I'm one of them myself but I earned my freedom of speech by my in-game actions. It was not one passive endorsement to GRC delegate who cannot give a shit what you think, what you want or how you would want things to be.

[Consular]

A Basic requirement of "Alternative History" in NS is that you and your friends find a way out from GCR cabinets...

It is illusionary power particularly for those whom role in it all is only act like cannonfodder passive pilers for the greater benefits of Off-site forum landlords.

I'm one of them myself but I earned my freedom of speech by my in-game actions. It was not one passive endorsement to GRC delegate who cannot give a shit what you think, what you want or how you would want things to be.

You really can't seem to understand that GCR communities think differently to you. Most resident WA nations in GCRs regard your compulsive need to tag everything as a waste of time and little more than petty vandalism. Which, to be honest, it pretty much is. Just because they play the game differently to you doesn't make them in any way inferior, despite that being what your post seems to allude.

The power of GCRs is also not illusory. You only see it that way because you seem to measure power by the number of regions one can write their name across - that isn't power, it's just self gratifying nonsense. It doesn't grant any lasting influence and isn't even a good projection of strength, it inspires neither fear nor admiration. And for that matter, many GCRs actually /can/ field militaries. TNP has a military force demonstrably larger than all but a few regions in this game.

[Shizensky]

Just because they play the game differently to you doesn't make them in any way inferior,

Many seem to have a hard time understanding this, unfortunately.

The power of GCRs is also not illusory.

As noted in the successful passage of "Commend Evil Wolf". The stacks of GCRs supporting the proposal definitely helped EW achieve a commendation. Nobody can hope to pass or repeal a Liberation without strong support from GCRs.

[Corvus Corax]

The GCR wall in it's purest appearance and representation.

I accept that. I try change that.

[Evil Wolf]

Oh, I've got a good Alternative History suggestion!

What if Eluvatar had never pass on information to TNP that a UDL Lt. was stealing information from the NPA's private forum?

Would TNP-UDL relations still exist? Would NPA be the centralist powerhouse it is today, or a Defender vanguard loyal to the UDL's brand of Defending, as Unibot so desperately wanted?

The world may never know.