Captain Woodhouse wrote:Revisiting my chat logs, the first coalition action we saw after recapturing NE W minor, 6/18, happened Th minor, 6/19.
That therefore makes your claim in relation to NE incorrect - the entire reason for it being in this conversation.
Captain Woodhouse wrote:NE sits soundly under UIAF-TNP control only because the UIAF required everyone and their dog’s assistance to retake it. Without everyone-and-their-dog’s help, you’d still be banging on the door like Jehovah’s witnesses at a meeting of the Atheist Alliance International.
All large-scale 'liberations' are composed of multiple organisations.
Had our point been active, the NE 'liberation' would not have succeeded - it's not a case of NE retaking it reflecting a military success for them, but a function of the point's inactivity. That was incompetence on our point's part, which he was reprimanded for, as outlined in the UIAF statement.
Captain Woodhouse wrote:Maybe you should research it then, yeah? Just because you’re unfamiliar with those liberations doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. Makhnovia received coverage in the Lazarene Gazette, the Rejected Realms Media Corporation, and was discussed in The People’s Republic of Lazarus and FRA topics.
You might be surprised to learn that I am not avid fan of the Lazarene Gazette, TRR Times or topics on the FRA or Lazarus forums.
One, of course, does read them regularly to identify and respond to attacks on the UIAF, but one tends to scan the rest of the junk out.
In any case, one doubts they would be exact as to both the number of updaters on the 'liberation' and whether it occurred on a minor after a major.
The Gregorach wrote:Onderkelkia wrote:We weren't 'assisting in the invasion of Nazi Europe'. We co-led it with The North Pacific and the region currently lies under joint UIAF-TNP control.
Athelstan MacGregor was forced to renounce LKE citizenship over the incident you refer to; if he had not agreed to do this, he would have been prosecuted for treason. He was also stripped of his peerage, which is the only occasion in which an LKE peer has been stripped of a peerage since late 2007.
The idea that Athelstan MacGregor was acting on our behalf, as part of 'charlatan tactics', is a lie. As you see, he was thrown out of the LKE for this.
That's playing it a little fast and loose with the truth there, Onder. There was no forcing involved. I told you that the price of the UIAF invading NAZI EUROPE would be my leaving the LKE long before, and you actually talked me into not leaving a few months before when you, me, and Cephal had that little private chat. (You have Cephal to thank for me not leaving in an uproar then.) I was not stripped of my peerage, but resigned it with the many other honors you bestowed on me for long and faithful service to the LKE - all of it while knowing of my involvement in NAZI EUROPE, which, might I add, was one of the first regions I joined, before I had ever even heard of the LKE. I had my citizenship in, and status as propaganda minister of NAZI EUROPE in my signature for the entire time I was a citizen of the LKE up until you formally shifted the LKE's stance to anti-nazi, at which time, you may recall, I was the sitting Prime Minister. I removed it then without your asking so as not to cause you embarrasment, and told you what I had done. Looking back, that was the moment when I should have left, but I continued on, wasting countless hours on your region while you slowly but surely made it more and more difficult for me to faithfully serve both regions. I still waited as long as I could before I left, and then did so quietly, for auld lang syne and the friends I still had in the region. I would still have kept quiet if Captain Woodhouse had not made me aware of what you said here. May this set the record straight and cause you some discomfort.
There are several major inaccuracies in this post.
1. The LKE's stance never 'switched' to anti-Nazi. It was always anti-Nazi. The switch which Athelstan refers to is the declaration of war on GGR, which arose over a specific incident relating to the invasion of The United Kingdom of Britain - we had taken an anti-Nazi position prior to that point.
2. Following our declaration of war on GGR, we did become aware of Athelstan's membership in Nazi Europe. As we are not at war with NE, that did not constitute grounds to remove him from the region, but as we could not remove him from the LKE, he was asked to leave Nazi Europe. He declined to do this. Prior to this point, he may have been affiliated to Nazi Europe and he may have, as he says, advertised this in his signatures, but it was not something which came specifically to my attention prior to the declaration of war on GGR, so it was not dealt with before that point.
3. It follows from the last point that we were not aware of Athelstan's affiliation until after he became Prime Minister, rather than before.
4. The reason subsequently it was 'surely made it more and more difficult for [him] to faithfully serve both regions', as he says, was because he was informed his position was unacceptable and it was made clear that he could no longer hold positions in the LKE while he was in NE. For instance, when he attempted to stand for Prime Minister again in late 2013 (having previously left office in mid-2012), this was specifically blocked.
5. Athelstan was informed that if the LKE invaded NE and he opposed that, this would constitute treason - in other words, that it would require him to withdraw from the region. Several attempts involving the LKE to invade NE were made in this period. Had he not left then, he would have been pushed.
5. Athelstan's peerage was stripped; LKE peerages cannot be resigned.
In hindsight, it would have been wiser to have not minded about niceties surrounding banning citizens without a trial and removed this individual extrajudicially the moment that one learned of his affiliation to Nazi Europe. As it was, the decision was made to delay any action and wait until the point until he could be prosecuted for an offence against the LKE - i.e. when we invaded Nazi Europe and he opposed it. These proceedings were not commenced because he left, well aware that his position was one which could not continue, having been informed previously that supporting NE would be unacceptable.
The Rainbow Collective wrote:I expect that other socialists will feel similarly. I don't know that they will, and I don't have any authority to speak for any region or military. If they do feel similarly, they will speak up or demonstrate it through their actions. But nothing I say here represents anyone but myself.
That is simply not good enough, particularly in light of the threat which has occurred with Balder.
Either you are claiming their support or you are not. If not, you should retract your earlier statements on the subject.
The Rainbow Collective wrote:You, on the other hand, are Founder of The Land of Kings and Emperors, so let's get back to this:
Evidently you would like to change the topic of conversation.
On a side note, I am not " Founder of The Land of Kings and Emperors". I currently own the founder nation, but Lucius founded the region, not me.
The Rainbow Collective wrote:That differs a lot from what you said in your previous post, Onder, and you didn't mention having any prior knowledge of his residence in Nazi Europe before he was supposedly forced out. Did you have prior knowledge and only act when other regions became aware of it? Did you even act at all, or is what The Gregorach is saying true and he left of his own volition, resigned his peerage, etc.? Did you actually talk a fascist into staying in your region? If you knew and not only tolerated the presence of a fascist but allowed him to be elected Prime Minister on numerous occasions, that calls into question everything mainstream gameplay thinks it knows about The Land of Kings and Emperors and its commitment to anti-fascism.
That would be pretty embarrassing after the stink The LKE made along with its allies Europeia, The New Inquisition, etc. over Lone Wolves United working with The Greater German Reich a few years ago. It certainly makes your declaration of war against The Greater German Reich look hollow and your efforts to refound Nazi Europe look downright preposterous. Too odious to exist, but not to offensive to serve in your government for years. Is anti-fascism only for the cameras, so to speak?
The statements I made in my previous response, that he was forced to leave and that he was stripped of his peerage, are both entirely accurate.
I became aware of it after he was ' elected Prime Minister on numerous occasions', rather than before.
I should have been aware of it before then, because the information was openly available, but I was not. The issue of his signature came up after the GGR declaration of war. This regrettable ignorance in part reflects that our counter-intelligence focused on defenders; we did not suspect any Nazi presence.
With regard to your other points, see my response to him. The LKE has always adopted a vigorously anti-Nazi position, at home and abroad.
