The Eternal Knights: Under New Management

[Cormac Stark]

Looks like Nephmir got control of the founder again, somehow. There goes me as King, see you guys.

Good. Nobody should have ever applauded or encouraged your seizure of the Founder nation in the first place, it was vile and pathetic.

Congratulations to Nephmir on reclaiming his nation and his region from the snakes in Ainur.

[Anders Blakewood]

Looks like Nephmir got control of the founder again, somehow. There goes me as King, see you guys.

Good. Nobody should have ever applauded or encouraged your seizure of the Founder nation in the first place, it was vile and pathetic.

Congratulations to Nephmir on reclaiming his nation and his region from the snakes in Ainur.

This has nothing to do with Ainur to be fair, it was my action solely.

[Rifty]

Looks like Nephmir got control of the founder again, somehow. There goes me as King, see you guys.

Good. Nobody should have ever applauded or encouraged your seizure of the Founder nation in the first place, it was vile and pathetic.

Congratulations to Nephmir on reclaiming his nation and his region from the snakes in Ainur.

Oh please Cormac - These tactics are the equivalent of a coup in the GCRs. It happens. Of all regions for this to happen to TEK was the one that needed it.

Either way - seems fishy. Doubt any of this is true

[Rifty]

http://i.imgur.com/EHnKDjw.png

Scratch that - it's true

[Cormac Stark]

Oh please Cormac - These tactics are the equivalent of a coup in the GCRs. It happens. Of all regions for this to happen to TEK was the one that needed it.

Either way - seems fishy. Doubt any of this is true

No, they really aren't. Coups in GCRs involve getting the endorsements of other nations -- either natives, through deception, or external invaders, or a combination -- in order to take the Delegacy, or getting a Delegate nation willingly handed to you. This was taking control of a shared nation without permission. It's phishing, and it's not a legitimate tactic.

[Rifty]

Oh please Cormac - These tactics are the equivalent of a coup in the GCRs. It happens. Of all regions for this to happen to TEK was the one that needed it.

Either way - seems fishy. Doubt any of this is true

No, they really aren't. Coups in GCRs involve getting the endorsements of other nations -- either natives, through deception, or external invaders, or a combination -- in order to take the Delegacy, or getting a Delegate nation willingly handed to you. This was taking control of a shared nation without permission. It's phishing, and it's not a legitimate tactic.

It was willingly handed over the password through gaining trust.... deception. It was not hacked. It depends purely on the person with the password to make these events start.Abuses of trust break no rules and since moderation has made this call I am curious as to when the rules changed. In GDU i was told very clearly it broke no rules yet they do not endorse the behavior. This was no different. I want to know when the rules change and if they didn't how they can make this call here...but didn't on GDU.

[Cormac Stark]

If the rules changed, they changed for the better. We don't need a "game" that involves taking over regions by deceiving someone into giving you their password. That it was ever tolerated is what's mind blowing, not that the mods have decided not to tolerate it further.

[Rifty]

If the rules changed, they changed for the better. We don't need a "game" that involves taking over regions by deceiving someone into giving you their password. That it was ever tolerated is what's mind blowing, not that the mods have decided not to tolerate it further.

We also don't need regions completely invincible to damaged down to a founder. This behavior should be praised...not hated.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Yeah, I'd like to see an official public ruling on that one. Rifty/Fest's takeover of GDU was a lot dirtier than that, and just as well published, but received no more than public scorn, and no modly correction to the blatant statement made by players that deceiving a founder into sharing a password, then wrecking the place, was not against the rule. There, they infiltrated with the sole purpose of gaining access to the founder, whereas here a leader given access in a nation stated from the very begging as to be shared between the them (need I dig up a link? *sigh* Post on it - viewtopic.php?f=12&t=314829&p=22243811#p22243586

"The King and Bishop have access to the regional founder account and TEK forum admin at all times, and are free to speak on behalf of the region through the founder account."

.... and the WFE archeive from that same day naming Anders as Bishop and therefore by that forum post having founder access) decided to reject his fellow leader.

More relevantly, and less personally, the Pinned Rules Regarding Shared Accounts "Nation theft - Fact is, the more people have access to a nation, the less secure it is. If one person hijacks that shared account, there will be nothing moderation can do to help recover it."

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=308885

It certainly doesn't say "The mods will give you access again, delete the other player's WA nation, warn all others, and threaten him with deletion of all nations"

Now, warn me for rules lawyering, but that's not fucking right. If the rules have changed, that should change as well.

Not that anything can be done about it now. Our lovely and usually awesome overlords aren't likely going to give Anders access back even if by some miracle the ruling was overturned. But I'd love to see Anders file a GHR about that warning, siting those very rules.

[Cormac Stark]

At most, he should be reinstated to the WA and the warnings should be removed since the rules did not appear to have changed at the time he seized the nation. But the rule should be changed. There is no other game on the internet in which phishing is considered a valid tactic, and it's preposterous that the rules ever allowed it in the first place.

[Anders Blakewood]

Yeah, I'd like to see an official public ruling on that one. Rifty/Fest's takeover of GDU was a lot dirtier than that, and just as well published, but received no more than public scorn. There, they infiltrated with the sole purpose of gaining access to the founder, whereas here a leader merely rejected others.

Not to mentioned the Pinned Rules Regarding Shared Accounts "Nation theft - Fact is, the more people have access to a nation, the less secure it is. If one person hijacks that shared account, there will be nothing moderation can do to help recover it."

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=308885

It certainly doesn't say "The mods will give you access again, eject the other player from the WA, and threaten him with deletion of all nations"

Now, warn me for rules lawyering, but that's not fucking right. If the rules have changed, that should change as well.

Not that anything can be done about it now. Our lovely and usually awesome overlords aren't likely going to give Anders access back even if by some miracle the ruling was overturned. But I'd love to see Anders file a GHR about that warning, siting those very rules.

A few friends are doing so, I'll probably file one myself soon. I don't care about access to the founder anymore, or TEK anymore, all my work was undone. All I care about are the warnings on ALL of my nations.

[Anders Blakewood]

At most, he should be reinstated to the WA and the warnings should be removed since the rules did not appear to have changed at the time he seized the nation. But the rule should be changed. There is no other game on the internet in which phishing is considered a valid tactic, and it's preposterous that the rules ever allowed it in the first place.

If it was illegal I wasn't going to do it. I know this is a game, and I could have swore it was legal. So, I did it.

[Faschist Deutsch Reich]

Yeah, I'd like to see an official public ruling on that one. Rifty/Fest's takeover of GDU was a lot dirtier than that, and just as well published, but received no more than public scorn. There, they infiltrated with the sole purpose of gaining access to the founder, whereas here a leader merely rejected others.

Not to mentioned the Pinned Rules Regarding Shared Accounts "Nation theft - Fact is, the more people have access to a nation, the less secure it is. If one person hijacks that shared account, there will be nothing moderation can do to help recover it."

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=308885

Now, warn me for rules lawyering, but that's not fucking right. If the rules have changed, that should change as well.

Not that anything can be done about it now. Our lovely and usually awesome overlords aren't likely going to give Anders access back even if by some miracle the ruling was overturned. But I'd love to see Anders file a GHR about that warning, siting those very rules.

If I was going to post on this issue what I truly think, I would probably get deleted by a mod. Without having to say anything harsh, I can only agree with you 100% and leave it at that.

[Gest]

Now, warn me for rules lawyering, but that's not fucking right. If the rules have changed, that should change as well.

Rules lawyering is just mod code for "we don't want you guys to hold us to anything we've said in the past so we can make up whatever decision we want in the future."

It's a very interesting decision. It always seemed that you couldn't get a founder nation back if the person you shared it with took it. On the one hand, if this is the rule, then going forward it will offer UCR founder's significant protection, a pity the price is one of Nephmir's more monumental errors had to be overturned to get such a right. Apparently he's made of teflon for none of his errors sticks.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Yeah, I'd like to see an official public ruling on that one. Rifty/Fest's takeover of GDU was a lot dirtier than that, and just as well published, but received no more than public scorn, and no modly correction to the blatant statement made by players that deceiving a founder into sharing a password, then wrecking the place, was not against the rule. There, they infiltrated with the sole purpose of gaining access to the founder, whereas here a leader given access in a nation stated from the very begging as to be shared between the them (need I dig up a link? *sigh* Post on it - viewtopic.php?f=12&t=314829&p=22243811#p22243586

"The King and Bishop have access to the regional founder account and TEK forum admin at all times, and are free to speak on behalf of the region through the founder account."

.... and the WFE archeive from that time period naming Anders as Bishop and therefore by that forum post having founder access) decided to reject his fellow leader, reform the region, and build it - not maliciously destroy it like CoF and the GDU.

More relevantly, and less personally, the Pinned Rules Regarding Shared Accounts - "Nation theft - Fact is, the more people have access to a nation, the less secure it is. If one person hijacks that shared account, there will be nothing moderation can do to help recover it." -Katganistan

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=308885

It certainly doesn't say "The mods will give you access again, Delete the other player's WA nation, warn all others, and threaten him with deletion of all nations"

Now, warn me for rules lawyering, but that's not fucking right. If the rules have changed, that should change as well.

Not that anything can be done about it now. Our lovely and usually awesome overlords aren't likely going to give Anders access back even if by some miracle the ruling was overturned. But I'd love to see Anders file a GHR about that warning, siting those very rules.

Updated with kinder wording and proof Anders had access from the very beginning. My memory may be oddly specific, but the rest of you need links
(Also just learned that if you edit text in a quote while quoting yourself, it edits the original post, without adding to the post edited message at the bottom. Interesting)

[Rifty]

I have no idea what "When GDU occurred nothing was done" means. The FAQ is quite clear in two different places - nation stealing, when the thief can be tracked, is punishable by banning. Because it was a shared nation, I was generous and the thief only lost one nation, his current WA.

You forget that there are over 25 people with access to Getting Help, and I'm one of them that has no clue what "You knew we did GDU just as you knew he did this" means. I have no idea how GDU, whatever that is, was resolved. You have no idea what our tracking tools show us. In this case, the tracking was blatant and obvious, and I followed the rules in the FAQ concerning stolen accounts. I'm now seeing people in Gameplay quoting the pinned Shared Accounts rules, and those two rules disagree. I'm guessing we have to revise one of those to clarify this, but there's no question at all that nation theft is against the rules.
Frisbeeteria, Senior Game Moderator.

I've requested moderation replies to my GHRs on Riftend are sent to me - So i can have that telegram were they stated very clearly it BROKE NO RULES but they didn't not endorse the behaviors. The rules have not changed. This has been a poor ruleing by moderation and something needs to be done about this.

We should be passing punishments dependent on past punishments to similar behaviour - not down to what the rules say since what the rules say, " If we don't see it happen, though, and someone changes your password and e-mail address, I'm afraid you're on your own. As far as the game is concerned, your government has been overthrown in a coup."

He changed the password and the email - They clearly saw him do this. Just as they saw us do it in GDU. They admit as far as they are concerened it is a coup to your nation - It's in the FAQ so it must be a reasonable response. Yet in their reply to his GHR they state:

"Your "coup" of nation the_eternal_nights has been reversed, and it cost you your WA nation."

First off I have no idea how taking his WA was a reasonable punishment - Secondly they go against what they state in the FAQ with this decision. Also go against past decisions on THE SAME RULE SET!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Plus, according to Neph's own post in GP, October 29th, Anders was long ago given admin access. It's not like he just hacked in last night. You could even say he was "speaking on behalf of the region" as he was stately free to do

ADD: Those rules on shared accounts are relatively recent, as well. Spring 2014...April? If I recall correctly. Within a year.

EDIT2: More recent, in fact. It's August 17th, 2014. Almost two months after GDU was taken down by a shared founder (Jun 25, 2014), and a boatload of people got mad about it. So a ruling after that incident seems to have given it the green light quite clearly, which really make this....for lack of a better word, unfair.

[Rifty]

Plus, according to Neph's own post in GP, October 29th, Anders was long ago given admin access. It's not like he just hacked in last night. You could even say he was "speaking on behalf of the region" as he was stately free to do

ADD: Those rules on shared accounts are relatively recent, as well. Spring 2014...April? If I recall correctly. Within a year.

He also stated he didn't care

I was going to resign anyway... I just didn't want to leave Anders by himself to govern the region.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

EDIT2: More recent, in fact. It's August 17th, 2014. Almost two months after GDU was taken down by a shared founder (Jun 25, 2014), and a boatload of people got mad about it. So a ruling after that incident seems to have given it the green light quite clearly, which really make this....for lack of a better word, unfair.

[Aravea]

Well judging by Nephmir's recent posts it seems as if he is gearing up for revenge against those who opposed him. Damn this is not looking good for some of us.

[Rifty]

Well judging by Nephmir's recent posts it seems as if he is gearing up for revenge against those who opposed him. Damn this is not looking good for some of us.

umm - This is where i laugh at you for believing Neph can accomplish something like that. HAH!

No need to fear - We took a fair few of his men over the last day. We also have taken over 4 of his updaters over the past month and a bit. His military is in shambles and the government a mess. No need to fear those who can't take care of themselves.

[Faschist Deutsch Reich]

Well judging by Nephmir's recent posts it seems as if he is gearing up for revenge against those who opposed him. Damn this is not looking good for some of us.

What's new? Neph has always acted this way and attempted (without success) to crush his enemies into the ground. This is no different from any other time, so we all have nothing to fear. Anyway, the harsher/radical Neph's actions are, the less support he will have from others around him.

I welcome Neph's claims/actions of revenge as a challenge to accept.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Just a note- there's a discussion thread in Moderation on this, so talk concerning the direct, modly, action, should probably be (politely and respectfully) taken there, leaving this for talk directly about TEK. I'm no mod, but I hate to see anyone warned for threadjacking, so just sayin'

[RiderSyl]

Now that Nephmir got back control of his region...

He's going to resign like he was planning to do before all of this

And to everyone, I was going to resign anyway...

and start anew with a new character that's less radical

I'm done pretending to be a radicalist. I'm going to take on a new character now, but with the same nation.

like he said back when it looked like he had completely lost control... right? Right??

Nope. Because he sticks to his word like a bandaid sticks to wet skin.

How does this guy keep getting people to defend him? How does he keep getting people to follow him? Is gullibility that strong? Is stupidity that widespread? Is nonsense that attractive? Is double-speak that inconsequential? As an intelligent human being, consider me confused and concerned.

[Rifty]