Thou Shalt Not Retag: 10 Commandments of Detagging

[Land filled with People]

You should update commandment two. There is no excuse for placing "N/A" in a WFE, you can always find an old native WFE (unless, of course, there never was a native WFE). But overall this looks like a great guide .

[Ynys Prydain]

You should update commandment two. There is no excuse for placing "N/A" in a WFE, you can always find an old native WFE (unless, of course, there never was a native WFE). But overall this looks like a great guide .

Yeah, good point. I'll edit that a bit. And thanks!

[McMasterdonia]

Well done - a great resource for new defenders and fellow detaggers

[Coraxion]

Where are my favorite Dear Spanes (Jack and Thomas) on that list?

I don't know what else they do but at least these guys dare confront us online during updates, which in contemporary decadence of the Defenderdom is something what I can personally respect... to a certain degree.

It is so typical that Fendas forget their Elite Soldiers from their own list.

[Shizensky]

They're the third on the list.

[Eist]

Nice work OP; I like it a lot.

[Coraxion]

They're the third on the list.

Uh... Thanks. I didn't pay attention due hangover.

[Eluvatar]

I've been told Johz's WFE thing is down, so I made a replacement.

It's not automatically updating yet, but it has all the WFEs I know of up through yesterday. It'll start getting updated automatically this weekend, I hope.

[Union of Kiwi Socialists]

I've been told Johz's WFE thing is down, so I made a replacement.

It's not automatically updating yet, but it has all the WFEs I know of up through yesterday. It'll start getting updated automatically this weekend, I hope.

Thanks allot! I've missed the UDL thing allot, so this looks great.

[Cormac Pendragon]

I've been told Johz's WFE thing is down, so I made a replacement.

It's not automatically updating yet, but it has all the WFEs I know of up through yesterday. It'll start getting updated automatically this weekend, I hope.

Awesome, I'll edit the OP.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

@syl, detagging provides no competitiveness. TBR tags during major, defenders detag during minor and then TBR tags the same region the following major update. Its purely an activity program for r/d'ers and nothing else.

...Okay, I know this is old, but it keeps catching my eyes. You've got people on the R side of things who enjoy doing it again and again every day, so why not on the other side? It is more work for you after, so I guess that's a factor. We just copypasta a standard thing into the WFE. I guess what I'm going at is that we find the fun in getting together, the banter, the speed of the hits, and the raw number at the end, with the resources we had to put in. So why don't we see a "Defender TBR," for lack of a better analogy, that maintains a force of regular detaggers, making better forces for liberations when they come? From the outside, it seems like your body of updaters is larger than ours, but less consistently active. Is it a communications thing? Defenders seem to use IRC's, for ease of use with people you grab off the street to help with things, from what I've caught (could be wrong ). I know many a tag run that's been born by two or three of us happening to be chatting on skype of seeing someone come on as update comes near, and getting a crew together, with everyone reaching out to whoever's online. I don't know. It just seems strange that one side has a group that can find a lot of fun in something essentially without competition, while the other cannot.

[Cora II]

I must agree with EWS about this. Why Defender side doesn't use Detag runs for keeping their active community active between bigger liberations and for keeping and improving skill levels and routine of both participating individuals and whole team?

The Answer to that question we hear often: "Tag raids are not raids at all, it is useless waste time for detagging." or something similar, and we immediately come to the consequences of such thinking behind the answer:

The Black Riders and allies can keep nearly continuously higher numbers of more experienced and skilled forces on the fields, then defenders can, meanwhile creating and keeping up immense "regional tag cloud". That tag cloud is practical example why concept of so called tag raiding is so succesful for living and active raider Community. Tag raids are often rather insignificant as a raids, no doubt, but tags itself has never been main reason for tag raiding and that part of the concept has not been understood in a Defender side of R/D enough well.

Then when we raiders launch big and longer term raids and occupations, we get relatively easily lot of people online whom has basic understanding what is essential for electing delegates. Tag raiding is just practice for those bigger occupations. It is practice for just important aspect of Any Raids: Electing Delegates. Tags itself are byproducts of that training and practicing method.

[Cormac Pendragon]

Defenders don't detag much these days because it's boring, monotonous, and ultimately as pointless as the tags themselves. These regions are, for the most part, so inactive that their natives don't even care what their WFEs say anymore. As you noted, it's also more work for defenders. You copy and paste; defenders have to find the original WFE and flag. You have a (potentially illegal) script that enables you to push a button and suppress an entire RMB; defenders have nothing like that for unsuppression.

In 2012, the UDL did a great job detagging, often reversing anything TBR had done the update before. But this usually distracted from spotting and defending against more damaging raids, and TBR would just tag a bunch more regions at the next update. There was literally no point to it at all.

The bottom line is nobody is obligated to do anything they find unenjoyable or pointless just because you two would prefer fresh regions to tag. Defenders exist to defend, not to be your cleanup crew.

[Cora II]

Cormac: Use of Suppression script seems to be on gray area of rule enforcements by Mods. Besides, TBR Marshal Gest has already ordered not to use such script during tagging duties, just because it is not clear ruling.

[Frisbeeteria]

You have a (potentially illegal) script that enables you to push a button and suppress an entire RMB;

Use of Suppression script seems to be on gray area of rule enforcements by Mods.

There's nothing "potential" about its illegality. It's purely illegal, as it compresses a whole bunch of actions into a single keypress, which is a clear violation of the script rules.

As for mod enforcement, I don't recall ever seeing a task reporting that as even a potential problem. Had it been, I suspect some warnings and deletions would have followed. Most of our script rules depend on the honor of the player/scripter, as it's sometimes difficult to be certain when it's a player versus a robot behind a given set of actions. However, if any of you ARE honorable, you'll spread the word that the use of such scripts is absolutely illegal, whether used by "raiders" or "defenders".

[Cora II]

There's nothing "potential" about its illegality. It's purely illegal, as it compresses a whole bunch of actions into a single keypress, which is a clear violation of the script rules.

As for mod enforcement, I don't recall ever seeing a task reporting that as even a potential problem. Had it been, I suspect some warnings and deletions would have followed. Most of our script rules depend on the honor of the player/scripter, as it's sometimes difficult to be certain when it's a player versus a robot behind a given set of actions. However, if any of you ARE honorable, you'll spread the word that the use of such scripts is absolutely illegal, whether used by "raiders" or "defenders".

When this issue was in discussion in the Moderation thread Here, no reactions to that topic came from moderation.

Now The ruling is clear to Everyone, not only "raiders" and "defenders".

[Cormac Pendragon]

You have a (potentially illegal) script that enables you to push a button and suppress an entire RMB;

Use of Suppression script seems to be on gray area of rule enforcements by Mods.

There's nothing "potential" about its illegality. It's purely illegal, as it compresses a whole bunch of actions into a single keypress, which is a clear violation of the script rules.

As for mod enforcement, I don't recall ever seeing a task reporting that as even a potential problem. Had it been, I suspect some warnings and deletions would have followed. Most of our script rules depend on the honor of the player/scripter, as it's sometimes difficult to be certain when it's a player versus a robot behind a given set of actions. However, if any of you ARE honorable, you'll spread the word that the use of such scripts is absolutely illegal, whether used by "raiders" or "defenders".

For the record, I've never had access to this script nor is it widely used by raiders -- or at least it didn't used to be. As far as I know, only The Black Riders have it. Defenders have nothing comparable, judging by the grumbling still heard whenever an entire RMB needs unsuppressed.

[Sichuan Pepper]

Scripts seem to be a grey area. I recently asked about the banhammer tool used in NS++. I thought if it reduces clicks needed it would then be illegal. I suppose not though as no action has been taken against the users.

Anyway safest to ask Mods if not sure if a script is legal. Never assume it is legal just because it is freely distributed.

[Blood Wine]

Another good resource:
http://www.nationstates.net/page=archive/folder=regions

Requires *some* digging,skipping 1 years and then per month should be easy to find with ctrl+f

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Scripts seem to be a grey area. I recently asked about the banhammer tool used in NS++. I thought if it reduces clicks needed it would then be illegal. I suppose not though as no action has been taken against the users.

Anyway safest to ask Mods if not sure if a script is legal. Never assume it is legal just because it is freely distributed.

All it is is a list of every nation in the region that you can sort by influence or , with the same "eject" or "eject and ban" buttons vanilla NS has at the bottom of the nation page, just lined up down the side. The Page also has an estimate of your influence, the influnce each nation has, and how much it will take to ban or eject. Now, none of that is particularly accurate anyways, because it applies only to total influence, not regional influence. I move a high-influence puppet into a region, and it'll tell me that it has a ton of influence, and that it will take a ton to eject, when really it's influence in that region is minimal- and as such the estimates can be wildly inaccurate. It also doesn't seem to update instantly, so it's not really useful for defending a region. It requires no less clicks to banject one nation than clicking their nation/the banhammer link, scrolling down, and hitting your desired button. The only place you could say it saves any clicks is in the fact that to do a second one, you don't have to go to their nation page to do so. In essence, it's just moving all the buttons to one page and estimating influence, and is really most useful for figuring out a plan of action in ejecting natives, and making sure you save enough to be able to remove a cross-endo'd lib party if they show up more than once

[Frisbeeteria]

When this issue was in discussion in the Moderation thread Here, no reactions to that topic came from moderation.

I must have missed a few posts in that thread when it came out. Despite the opinions of certain players, the "if I can do it, it must be legal" school of thinking clashes with the actual script rules in quite a few places.

Anyway safest to ask Mods if not sure if a script is legal.

To be honest, most of the mods aren't good enough scripters to give a responsible answer. Post your question here in Technical (or if secrecy is necessary, via GHR), and we'll direct the query to a scripter mod or admin.

[Kazmr]

Wordy: I was under the impression that it was more along the lines of one action, one click, hence why the NS++ nation creator requires separate actions for creating and then moving the nation to the region. The banhammer still requires you to click for each individual nation, iirc. A script suppressing the whole rmb, meanwhile, would violate this since its performing multiple actions with a single click.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

While ejecting some novice defenders from my occupation, I noted that the regions they jumped from were "liberated" with their their own tag in one case, and merely that word in the other. In my little goodbye telegram I pointed them here. Hopefully, they contact one of you all as well.

[Solorni]

I think we should be careful of any group that runs things according to ten commandments

[Ynys Prydain]

OP and dispatch version updated, to include Eluvatar's new WFE Index as well as to add a region and alter some regional contacts to reflect leadership changes in those regions.

As a note, I do my best to notice leadership changes in the regions listed, but making a note of any changes here or by TG to me would be helpful. I hope this is proving to be a useful resource.