Osiris Fraternal Order

[Charax]

Oh wow.

The scary thing is that I agree with him.

NPU! No! I thought you were cool.

[The North Polish Union]

The scary thing is that I agree with him.

NPU! No! I thought you were cool.

Its just that during the last 3 GCR coups I haven't done anything and have missed out on all the fun.
So this time I decided to join Osiris and get a ton of lolz. I really don't think that defenders should be purged in most circumstances.

[Mahaj]

Oh wow.

The scary thing is that I agree with him.

Yeah but tbh that's because you don't know shit about Osiris's history.

Like, Osiris's history is filled with defenders doing good things for it. And with raiders attacking it.

[Consular]

"The man who refuses to judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes and believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in the world. Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is a human life. Whether you live or die is an absolute. Whether you have a piece of bread or not, is an absolute. Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.

There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist, who is willing to sit out the course of any battle, willing to cash in on the blood of the innocent or to crawl on his belly to the guilty, who dispenses justice by condemning both the robber and the robbed to jail, who solves conflicts by ordering the thinker and the fool to meet each other halfway. In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit." ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Stand your ground, Venico. You do not stand alone.

[Mahaj]

Stand your ground, Venico. You do not stand alone.

I thought we wanted good, not evil.

[Consular]

I see you completely failed to understand, Mahaj. Neither side is good nor evil, it's the continuous state of compromise that has created so much instability. Compromise hasn't worked in Osiris in the past, and it won't know.

[Charax]

snip

Eh? If there was some deeper meaning to that it whistled straight over the top of my head.

[Vrij osiris]

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

[Astarial]

it's the continuous state of compromise that has created so much instability. Compromise hasn't worked in Osiris in the past, and it won't know.

I completely agree with this.

Here's the thing about compromise, aside from it being generally the worst possible option and only reasonable when there are no other options remaining - it's only even possible when neither side's red lines intersect.

If there are three apples, and I want two and you want two, and we each have a red-line demand of one apple, then one and a half apples each is a perfectly reasonable compromise. But if your red-line demand is "I want all the apples," and my red-line demand is "You can't have any apples," then there is no compromise to be found, period. There's no room for one to exist. And there's no point negotiating about the oranges and the pears either, because the apples are still fundamentally unresolvable.

It sounds to me like this is the situation here. The OFO's red-line non-negotiable non-starter is the permanent removal of certain people from Osiris. Any negotiation on forum, IRC channel, government structure, military alignment, democractic nature, membership, citizenship rules, anything, which does not accept as its foundation the permanent removal of those people from Osiris, is pointless. And Todd, it sounds like your red-line non-negotiable non-starter is undoing the banjections that have already taken place - any negotiation over forum, IRC channel, etc etc, which does not start with unbanning those people, is pointless.

Both sides are making very strong arguments, and both sides' arguments hinge on doing what is right for Osiris. To compromise would mean abandoning that very premise - to commit oneself to doing what one believes is wrong for Osiris, for the sake of saying that you compromised... a word which receives entirely too much blind obedience around here.

OFO, if you believe you are doing the right thing, stand your ground. Todd, if you believe you are doing the right thing, stand your ground. One of you will prevail - let that eventuality at least be in a form that some people do think is best.

[Astarial]

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

I had a hard time with Ayn Rand because I found myself enthusiastically agreeing with the first 90% of every sentence, but getting lost at 'therefore, be a huge asshole to everyone.'

[The Dourian Embassy]

This seems to be a bunch of philosophical underpinnings to an inherent yet unstated deeper meaning. That deeper meaning is of course misunderstood in the thicket of words we're facing here. It all boils down to this: "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!"


I personally ascribe to the ancient thinker Cyrus and his viewpoints on conflicts such as this:

CAN YOU DIG IT?

[The North Polish Union]

This seems to be a bunch of philosophical underpinnings to an inherent yet unstated deeper meaning. That deeper meaning is of course misunderstood in the thicket of words we're facing here. It all boils down to this: "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!"


I personally ascribe to the ancient thinker Cyrus and his viewpoints on conflicts such as this:

CAN YOU DIG IT?

I may have found a new philosophy to guide my life.

[The Dourian Embassy]

This seems to be a bunch of philosophical underpinnings to an inherent yet unstated deeper meaning. That deeper meaning is of course misunderstood in the thicket of words we're facing here. It all boils down to this: "FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!"


I personally ascribe to the ancient thinker Cyrus and his viewpoints on conflicts such as this:

CAN YOU DIG IT?

I may have found a new philosophy to guide my life.

A close second is the always useful "Can you count suckers?!" and the third would be the slightly less universally applicable "Ack, I've been shot." which is uh, well, useful but not in the same way I guess.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Here's the thing about compromise, aside from it being generally the worst possible option and only reasonable when there are no other options remaining - it's only even possible when neither side's red lines intersect.

Technically, compromises are only possible when red lines do intersect, forming a zone of possible agreement. But your broader point is more or less right.

[Todd McCloud]

Philosophical arguments and existential quandaries aside, I am confident in my position. This pointless bickering and attempting to signal out members is something all sides are guilty of in Osiris. Trouble is, some find it difficult to see things from an objective point of view. Even more troubling, I now no longer believe the "breakaway" group is doing this for the sake of the region - I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt this is nothing more than a power-grab, much like the previously-cited coups before them.

But, I am not aligned with any one group. Not aligned with Dali's group, not aligned with the Brotherhood of Malice. I guess if I had to pick a side, it would stand with Osiris and the members therein. Seems few are willing to pick their side these days and would rather throw the region to peril instead of working things out.

We'll see what happens. But I am confident that this group attempting to undermine Osiris for the sake of the Brotherhood of Malice will pass. And, when that does, I will have a lot of thinking to do once the old forums are restored.

[Astarial]

Here's the thing about compromise, aside from it being generally the worst possible option and only reasonable when there are no other options remaining - it's only even possible when neither side's red lines intersect.

Technically, compromises are only possible when red lines do intersect, forming a zone of possible agreement. But your broader point is more or less right.

Bah, poor wording on my part - naturally what I meant was when the areas they encompass overlap. Like with the apples. Tasty, overlapping apples. Which are all mine and none for you.

[All Good People]

I pretty much agree with Asta.

Todd, with all due respect, your proposal, if accepted, would only maintain the status quo while we await the next coup.

I think every GCR has gone through this sort of thing at some point in their earlier history, why should Osiris be any different.

And again Todd, with respect, the Osiris forum has always been one of the most unfriendly offsite forums in NS in quite some time my opinion. I've never been treated so poorly than by that forum administration and government. And the petty arguements.....they're all still there to gnaw on those who feel wronged on all sides. It's a toxic place and needs a fresh start. This also is nothing new in GCRs. The old forum should be archived.

Osiris troubles need to end, and that forum is a focal point of the problem.

[Undead Todd]

I pretty much agree with Asta.

Todd, with all due respect, your proposal, if accepted, would only maintain the status quo while we await the next coup.

I think every GCR has gone through this sort of thing at some point in their earlier history, why should Osiris be any different.

And again Todd, with respect, the Osiris forum has always been one of the most unfriendly offsite forums in NS in quite some time my opinion. I've never been treated so poorly than by that forum administration and government. And the petty arguements.....they're all still there to gnaw on those who feel wronged on all sides. It's a toxic place and needs a fresh start. This also is nothing new in GCRs. The old forum should be archived.

Osiris troubles need to end, and that forum is a focal point of the problem.

I could agree with that, and in some ways, it does make sense. I was not happy with how some people were treated over there, and unfortunately due to real life and other issues, didn't really pay 100% attention to it all of the time. But, in the meantime, we have a split, another conflict, another civil war, and another problem. I didn't work this hard to see these forums essentially tossed in the dumpster. I didn't join this region to see it couped once again and claimed by another region once again. I didn't stay on for the sheer hope that one day 3-4 members of Osiris would be banned from the region (actually it's more than that so far). It's... not something I can really sink my teeth into.

[All Good People]

*chuckles*

I understand that feeling. I felt that way when Pixiedance turned away from the established TNP government, shared her nation with Insane Power and Ivan. I fought so long and so hard to restore TNP after UPS Rail/Great Bight. I'd promised myself to retire the January after Great Bight...but no, TNP needed help again. It was such a let down...not again. "I can't go through all this again," but I did. I figured this could only last a few months, and yet it took a year later and a contentious constitutional forum afterwards to put TNP back together again. In the end, all forums and governments had to be archived for a future to be able to begin on a new forum.

I wanted to be more a part of Osiris, I really did. I try the forum periodically, but I can never make heads or tails of it. But that's probably just because I'm an old dude.

(I've promised myself retirement and failed too many times )

[Todd McCloud]

Thanks for the perspective, WW. We'll see what happens, I guess. But I'll keep trying to find some reason in all of this.

[Todd McCloud]

Welp, I just got banned from Osiris, lol. I sent out a telegram informing people to not choose the Brotherhood of Malice and to not choose The Empire. When these two sides can't agree and can't come together, I hope the people will come together instead, and win the region back for themselves.

[The Grim Reaper]

Welp, I just got banned from Osiris, lol. I sent out a telegram informing people to not choose the Brotherhood of Malice and to not choose The Empire. When these two sides can't agree and can't come together, I hope the people will come together instead, and win the region back for themselves.

In everybody's defense, your potential WA cabinet managed to match the Osirian electorate in theoretical dysfunctionality.

I'm not even sure NK is active any more, which left Mahaj and Sentimental Journeys (Diamete), a neutral party but far too inactive to make up for instilling power in a major member of the UDL and someone who I'm pretty sure retired.

It really wasn't much better for Osiris - arguably still better for the rest of Gameplay as a whole, though.

[PrussianEmpire]

Welp, I just got banned from Osiris, lol. I sent out a telegram informing people to not choose the Brotherhood of Malice and to not choose The Empire. When these two sides can't agree and can't come together, I hope the people will come together instead, and win the region back for themselves.

:/

[Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini]

I'm not sure how I feel about all of this.

[Todd McCloud]

Welp, I just got banned from Osiris, lol. I sent out a telegram informing people to not choose the Brotherhood of Malice and to not choose The Empire. When these two sides can't agree and can't come together, I hope the people will come together instead, and win the region back for themselves.

In everybody's defense, your potential WA cabinet managed to match the Osirian electorate in theoretical dysfunctionality.

I'm not even sure NK is active any more, which left Mahaj and Sentimental Journeys (Diamete), a neutral party but far too inactive to make up for instilling power in a major member of the UDL and someone who I'm pretty sure retired.

It really wasn't much better for Osiris - arguably still better for the rest of Gameplay as a whole, though.

I'll remind you that TEP was in a much worse state when the Empire took over. Yet somehow they came through with A Slanted Black Stripe and Dannistaan. The thing is, I've tried to present compromises. I've tried to help both sides come together. The trouble is, it's difficult. I don't support The Empire taking control of Osiris. I don't support the Brotherhood of Malice taking control of Osiris. I do support Osiris taking control of Osiris.

I realize it may be unpopular to go against the BoM right now. But really, I'd be able to believe they were for Osiris more if they didn't raise their flag in the region, state that the region was in control by the BoM, and include an oath of allegence to the BoM in their citizenship pledge. That confirmed to me that this was not something they wanted for Osiris. They wanted Osiris for themselves.

I don't like being banned from that region. But for someone who can't support BoM, and someone who can't support The Empire, it seems there's not enough room for a guy like myself. So, I'll enjoy some snacks in The Rejected Realms.