South Pacific Independent News Network

[Tlik]

What article are you reading EW?

It's almost as if he came here to prove a point rather than to, you know, make sure a point exists.

Nah, it's more that EW's advanced raider mind has progressed to the point where it doesn't even need defender propaganda to rail against for him to be able to rail against defender propaganda. He is truly a visionary.

[Punk Reloaded]

Topid's region was attacked. The NSA joined in on that attack.

Topid fights back, though selecting only TSP (looks like he was going to other regions later) for the unendo.

I fail to see the shock at Topid's actions and certainly no one can say I'm a Topid fan. If my region were attacked and taken from me, it's highly likely I would try to strike back any way I could.

I think if we're going to say "how could Topid challenge the region where he was delegate?" we've got to ask the question conversely, "how could the region where Topid was delegate support an attack upon Topid's region?"

I believe that is a fair question to ask.

[Cerian Quilor]

told me he now wants to leave the game because of the harassment.

If this is 'harassment' enough for him to leave the game, then he really needs a thicker skin and a better definition of harassment. That, or he was not very attacked to the game or his regional community.

[Southern Bellz]

Topid's region was attacked. The NSA joined in on that attack.

Topid fights back, though selecting only TSP (looks like he was going to other regions later) for the unendo.

I fail to see the shock at Topid's actions and certainly no one can say I'm a Topid fan. If my region were attacked and taken from me, it's highly likely I would try to strike back any way I could.

I think if we're going to say "how could Topid challenge the region where he was delegate?" we've got to ask the question conversely, "how could the region where Topid was delegate support an attack upon Topid's region?"

I believe that is a fair question to ask.

You missed the first part of this incident.

Topid, as delegate of St Abbaddon, leaked an NSA orders and publicly declared The South Pacific his enemy. He took two unprovoked shots at The South Pacific before any action was taken on our part.

[Punk Daddy]

Thanks for the correction, SB. Indeed I did miss that. That's the 2nd thing I've missed in two days in plain sight.

I'm getting old.

[Ambroscus Koth]

This isn't fairy tale land, Unibot. Topid gave the middle finger to an entire community he used to call home and leaked sensitive information that compromised their largest operation in quite a long time. He's a big boy, he can deal with the consequences of pissing people off. He doesn't need you to defend him.

It's cute how some of you seem to think that Topid didn't deserve what's coming to him and that his hissy-fit reaction of running un-endo campaigns on people he doesn't like is completely justified. If he wasn't a defender, you'd be all over him for disrupting the political process of multiple GCRs out of pure spite.

A++, guys.

[Raider Cormac]

Just to clarify a few things here:

1. I didn't target St Abbaddon because Topid leaked the NE raid. I've had St A in mind for months, but it was locked behind a password. It was targeted because it a) is founderless, b) is decent sized, c) had a semi-active Delegate, d) had an embassy with the UDL, e) used to recruit for the UDL right from its WFE. Whether some of the regions supporting the raid targeted it because Topid leaked the NE raid, I don't know, but that isn't why I targeted it. That said, if that is their reasoning for targeting it that's a totally legitimate reason, as Topid is a former Delegate, a prominent member of the region, and is the one who removed the password.

2. The WFE is not meant to target Topid because he leaked the NE raid. As a very basic comprehension of English will reveal, the WFE is poking fun at Topid for removing the region's password and making the raid possible. We would have done that whether he leaked the NE raid or not.

3. I do understand how people could get the wrong idea about a region that has the word malice in its name, but most of my raids are not geared toward natives. They're geared toward getting a rise out of defenders, which is why, in St A, 32 defenders and just one native (who was endorsing the native Delegate) have been banjected.

4. There is absolutely no justification for targeting The South Pacific for supporting the raid of a founderless UCR that was left woefully unprotected. Perhaps, knowing the risk involved with having an embassy with it, the UDL should have taken some steps to protect St Abbaddon instead of leaving it with a native Delegate who had only one endorsement. Instead, they now want to whine that a raid they should have expected has occurred and throw their toys out the pram in typical defender fashion. Which is fine with me, because as I said I do this to get a rise out of defenders, but it makes defenders look ridiculous and totally incapable of coexisting with regions that raid in any capacity or for any reason. Which is also fine with me.

[Karland]

It's almost as if he came here to prove a point rather than to, you know, make sure a point exists.

Nah, it's more that EW's advanced raider mind has progressed to the point where it doesn't even need defender propaganda to rail against for him to be able to rail against defender propaganda. He is truly a visionary.

lol'd irl

[The North Polish Union]

If Topid legitimately cared about the right of native communities to administrate themselves (or whatever the unofficial motto of defenderism is) then he should not be attempting to undermine the native government of TSP and cannot be said to maintain any sort of moral or cognitive consistency so long as he continues in his attempts to undermine the native government of TSP. Such actions are disgusting at best.

[Perfunctory Recruitment Attempts 4]

What article are you reading EW?

[Cerian Quilor]

NPU, if they're not defender, obviously they're not natives, because everyone else is EBUL!

[Unibot III]

If Topid legitimately cared about the right of native communities to administrate themselves (or whatever the unofficial motto of defenderism is) then he should not be attempting to undermine the native government of TSP and cannot be said to maintain any sort of moral or cognitive consistency so long as he continues in his attempts to undermine the native government of TSP. Such actions are disgusting at best.

Hmm, it is the defender code to not invade a native government - "undermine" is not necessarily the word used. Topid sent messages to members of TSP and let them decide: is that the government they want to support? One that bullies regions abroad for petty political games? I suspect TSP's citizenry still want Escade and her government in power, but there is nothing wrong with bringing it to their attention.

[Kringalia]

Actually Topid's telegram specifically asked the recipient to unendorse Escade, Brutland and Norden, Fudgetopia, Belschaft and me, and to "refuse to endorse them". So no, it wasn't just him innocently giving his point of view.

[Anumia]

If Topid legitimately cared about the right of native communities to administrate themselves (or whatever the unofficial motto of defenderism is) then he should not be attempting to undermine the native government of TSP and cannot be said to maintain any sort of moral or cognitive consistency so long as he continues in his attempts to undermine the native government of TSP. Such actions are disgusting at best.

Hmm, it is the defender code to not invade a native government - "undermine" is not necessarily the word used. Topid sent messages to members of TSP and let them decide: is that the government they want to support? One that bullies regions abroad for petty political games? I suspect TSP's citizenry still want Escade and her government in power, but there is nothing wrong with bringing it to their attention.

You're making it pretty damn clear that your brand of defenderism cares so little for sovereignty, security, and native Delegates staying native Delegates...

So, take the Delegacy and threaten a region in any way other than by invasion, and it's okay, basically? Or are you just being facetious in a rapidly-failing attempt to support Topid's rather dishonourable action?

[Topid]

If Topid legitimately cared about the right of native communities to administrate themselves (or whatever the unofficial motto of defenderism is) then he should not be attempting to undermine the native government of TSP and cannot be said to maintain any sort of moral or cognitive consistency so long as he continues in his attempts to undermine the native government of TSP. Such actions are disgusting at best.

Oh to be quite certain, I was not being a defender here, I was being a native of a region that was attacked. To say that I would undermine the native government of a region that was or is occupying mine is an understatement.

[North East Somerset]

If Topid legitimately cared about the right of native communities to administrate themselves (or whatever the unofficial motto of defenderism is) then he should not be attempting to undermine the native government of TSP and cannot be said to maintain any sort of moral or cognitive consistency so long as he continues in his attempts to undermine the native government of TSP. Such actions are disgusting at best.

Hmm, it is the defender code to not invade a native government - "undermine" is not necessarily the word used. Topid sent messages to members of TSP and let them decide: is that the government they want to support? One that bullies regions abroad for petty political games? I suspect TSP's citizenry still want Escade and her government in power, but there is nothing wrong with bringing it to their attention.

This is hilarious. I bet if someone brought anything to the attention of your "buddies" in TEP, Laz or NPO, you wouldn't be saying this.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Unendorsement campaigns are not just editorials on regional government. Topid was an outsider who was trying to create a security crisis in the region. TSP is a democratic region with regular elections. If Topid wanted to legitimately challenge leadership, he could wait a few weeks until our election, where he could criticize and lobby to his hearts content.

Let's not equivocate here. Topid is an enemy of the region. He used a technique that everybody recognizes as an attack on sovereignty.


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[Charax]

If Topid legitimately cared about the right of native communities to administrate themselves (or whatever the unofficial motto of defenderism is) then he should not be attempting to undermine the native government of TSP and cannot be said to maintain any sort of moral or cognitive consistency so long as he continues in his attempts to undermine the native government of TSP. Such actions are disgusting at best.

Summed it up beautifully.

[Letoilenoir]

The real folly of this affair is that it was undertaken without hope of success. It would appear to have been a knee-jerk reaction on Topics part to his humiliation in St Abbadon, and extremely ill considered. Unless there is a hidden agenda and the ensuing criticism has provided a suitable smokescreen for a totally different ploy by Topid

[The North Polish Union]

If Topid legitimately cared about the right of native communities to administrate themselves (or whatever the unofficial motto of defenderism is) then he should not be attempting to undermine the native government of TSP and cannot be said to maintain any sort of moral or cognitive consistency so long as he continues in his attempts to undermine the native government of TSP. Such actions are disgusting at best.

Oh to be quite certain, I was not being a defender here, I was being a native of a region that was attacked. To say that I would undermine the native government of a region that was or is occupying mine is an understatement.

You cannot have your career in St. Abbadon be entirely seperate from the rest of your actions on NS. As a whole, you have decided to defend other regions and therefore should not be attempting to damage the government of other regions, regardless of whether they have raided you. Otherwise, you send out an inconsistent message about your true agenda, making it harder for others to trust you.

To claim that your actions as a member of St. Abbadon should be treated as entirely different from the rest of your actions because "you weren't being a defender as a member of St. Abbadon" is, frankly, absurd.

[Cerian Quilor]

Unendorsement campaigns are not just editorials on regional government. Topid was an outsider who was trying to create a security crisis in the region. TSP is a democratic region with regular elections. If Topid wanted to legitimately challenge leadership, he could wait a few weeks until our election, where he could criticize and lobby to his hearts content.

Let's not equivocate here. Topid is an enemy of the region. He used a technique that everybody recognizes as an attack on sovereignty.


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[Venico]

I...agree with GR. What...? What has my NS career come to? o.o

[Kringalia]

I...agree with GR. What...? What has my NS career come to? o.o

Your next stop...the Twilight Zone!

[Glen-Rhodes]

I...agree with GR. What...? What has my NS career come to? o.o

It helps when what I'm saying is common sense, which happens rarely apparently [WINKING FACE]


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[Kazmr]

Oh to be quite certain, I was not being a defender here, I was being a native of a region that was attacked. To say that I would undermine the native government of a region that was or is occupying mine is an understatement.

You cannot have your career in St. Abbadon be entirely seperate from the rest of your actions on NS. As a whole, you have decided to defend other regions and therefore should not be attempting to damage the government of other regions, regardless of whether they have raided you. Otherwise, you send out an inconsistent message about your true agenda, making it harder for others to trust you.

To claim that your actions as a member of St. Abbadon should be treated as entirely different from the rest of your actions because "you weren't being a defender as a member of St. Abbadon" is, frankly, absurd.

While I dont agree with Topid's decision, i also think that this criticism is, frankly, absurd, and a fairly slanted misreading of Topid's statement. Topid doesnt seem to be claiming that this action is some sort of split that shouldnt be viewed with the rest of their actions on the site because its somehow distinct, rather Topid is simply speaking as a defender and a native who is willing to actually fight back when they come under personal attack; i think the false image of defenders as being completely able to do anything but detags has become so ingrained on this forum that many people forget that many defenders are more than just sheep following the rest of the herd (no offense to DYP or any actual sheep reading this )